The Instigator
Yakaspat
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

End the Federal Reserve of America.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/14/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,212 times Debate No: 8270
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (12)

 

Yakaspat

Pro

I strongly believe that the Federal Reserve is a great danger to the American People for these reasons.

1) They create money out of thin air, thus creating a Boom-Bust economy in which economic depressions and recessions are inevitable. If they keep this vicious cycle up, we will soon reach hyperinflation, where the currency is so inflated that it is worth nothing. This happened in Germany during the early 1920's.

2) The Federal Reserve isn't even a Federal organization! It is owned by private bankers that profit from all the recessions in American History.

3) The Federal Reserve is outside our government. They don't have to tell us anything about what they're doing. While congress is debating over whether or not to pass an eight-hundred billion dollar economic stimulus bill, the Fed is printing up Nine Trillion dollars and nobody seems to care!

The number one way to gain control of a government and it's people is to gain control of it's money supply. This is what Kings have done in the Middle Ages to gain control of their people and it is what the Fed has done in the USA.

I gleefully await my opponent's rebuttal.
Tatarize

Con

Eeek! Zounds! My goodness it's crazy scare tactics of freakish conspiracies.

The Fed doesn't create money, they loan it out. They are quasi-federal. The hyperinflation of 1920s Germany was due to the idea that they could print money to fix their problems (the fed neither has that power nor would they use it). The federal reserve doesn't print money, that is done by an actual government agency called Bureau of Engraving and Printing which is part of the treasury department.

http://www.geocities.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Basically they run some basic monetary policies by way of loaning money to banks at varying interest rates.

While some of the decisions of the Fed are certainly suspect, such as constantly raising the interests rates under Clinton and lowering them more and more under Bush, the underlying problems do not suffice as a reason to end the Federal Reserve, at best it would require some tweaks.
Debate Round No. 1
Yakaspat

Pro

No, not quite a conspiracy theory. You should do some research on it and how it operates. I'm not telling you that it is part of an evil organization that wants to control the world and kill all of us, I'm just saying that we would be way better off without it. (For the reasons stated above.)

About the hyperinflation of Germany in the 1920's, I'm not saying that a central banking system caused it, I'm saying that printing money or creating it out of thin air does cause hyperinflation.

Also, I am not exaggerating about how dangerous it is if a small group of people gain control of a nation's money supply. And yes, the Fed does have the power to print money. You can check these sites for more information on the subject.

http://www.ronpaul.com...
www.endthefed.us
Tatarize

Con

I have. That's why I say it's a conspiracy theory. You're wrong about how it operates. The reasons you stated are wrong because that's not how it operates. The Fed doesn't print money, they don't invent it out of thin air, and they have government bonds for the money they do give out.

They don't have control over the nation's money supply, they lend money in accord with monetary policy. Money is printed by a purely government agency. The Fed can ask for more money to lend it out, but that would be part of a larger monetary policy that the fed doesn't unilaterally decide, and it's still the government printing the money and they still must account for the money.

The fact is, you are proposing a secret cabal of money cheats who secretly control the money supply for their own ends, and they could print themselves too much money and end up causing the entire economy to collapse under their own greed... that's a conspiracy theory. The Fed is pretty boring. They lend money to banks from the government, in accordance with monetary policy, in order to make sure the money supply is neither too much or too little.

The problem isn't my lack of research, in fact, I'm extremely well versed on the Federal Reserve System. Rather the problem is that you buy into an odd conspiracy theory that contains a number of half-truths and outright lies. The actual Federal Reserve is not an evil cabal we'd be better off without.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Basically, let me sum up the argument problem thusly, you need to prove your version of reality or surrender the argument. The fact that other people believe your conspiracy theory doesn't suffice to make it true. You could very well believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy by our government to blow up the twin towers, and references to similarly deluded individuals would not prove the point. Your version of reality is wrong, and since the onus is on you to prove your version of reality, you've done little to establish anything here.

The Fed keeps the money supply from getting to small or too large, they clear checks between different banks, and they lend money to banks as a last resort lender. They are pretty boring and no where near the boogie man you've made them out to be in your deluded Ron Paul fantasies.
Debate Round No. 2
Yakaspat

Pro

Yakaspat forfeited this round.
Tatarize

Con

My opponent never properly articulated the underlying reasons for his premises. However I posted a general link with refutations to the general conspiracy theories in this regard. These both explain the reason why he thinks the way he does and why he's wrong.

Continue arguments from round two.

Thanks for participating.

Thanks for reading.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rumsy 7 years ago
Rumsy
Lol yeah, btw you seem to be improving yourself in our debate from this previous one. And I thank you again for that debate, it has kept me immersed in the topic so far.
Posted by Yakaspat 7 years ago
Yakaspat
You should have kept that argument in the debate about the same topic that we are having Rumsy. :)
Posted by Rumsy 7 years ago
Rumsy
Obviously goes to Con. And no, the Federal Reserve does not have the power to print money.
Posted by Yakaspat 7 years ago
Yakaspat
You know, looking back, I could have done this debate a lot better. I didn't even think about tackling the issue of the fed loaning money that doesn't exist.
Posted by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
The Federal Reserve banks have only a small share of the total national debt (about 7%). Therefore, only a small share of the interest on the debt goes to the Fed. Regardless, the Fed rebates that interest to the Treasury every year, so the debt held by the Fed carries no net interest obligation for the government. In addition, it is Congress, not the Federal Reserve, who is responsible for the federal budget and the national debt. - http://www.geocities.com...
Posted by DaveLaff29 7 years ago
DaveLaff29
ok yakaspat you need to get your stuff together, this is a delicate matter and your messing it up. Here is the ultimate point, if the federal reserve loans us all of our money at interest and we have to pay all of that money back, and the interest? Where do we get the money to pay back the interest? The simple answer is that that money doesnt exist. There is no logical way to pay back that money, hence it is inevitable that we have things such as foreclosures and defaults.

federal reserve ---$100--><--$100+?5?(interest)--United States Government

If anyone can explain how we pay back the interest, there is not as big of a problem as i though
Posted by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
Obama has made no moves to restrict guns.
Posted by Floridajoe03 7 years ago
Floridajoe03
Ron Paul Rocks! Why would you say his policies are deluded? He believes in the constitution, unlike that gun hating Obama...
Posted by MistahKurtz 7 years ago
MistahKurtz
Groan. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Posted by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
Yes, because nothing helps the common people like deflation. I mean owing 20k is one thing, but then with interest it goes to 25k and with deflation it goes to 35k. Woohoo deflation? Sums measured in dollars go down, oh the humanity.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by Tatarize 6 years ago
Tatarize
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by ZT 7 years ago
ZT
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Rumsy 7 years ago
Rumsy
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Yakaspat 7 years ago
Yakaspat
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by wpfairbanks 7 years ago
wpfairbanks
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:02 
Vote Placed by ToastOfDestiny 7 years ago
ToastOfDestiny
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by s0m31john 7 years ago
s0m31john
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
YakaspatTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01