The Instigator
migmag
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheConservativeSocialist
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Entry level employees deserve MUCH better pay and the SAME benefits as everyone else!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
TheConservativeSocialist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/13/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 303 times Debate No: 93672
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

migmag

Pro

Entry level employees in this country get between 5 and 9 dollars an hour and most of the time they get NO benefits until they get promoted (which many times doesn't ever happen) or until a LONG period of time in position occurs. That is WRONG!
TheConservativeSocialist

Con

Definitions:
1. Entry level employees: of, relating to, or filling a low-level job in which an employee may gain experience or skills.
2. Deserve: to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense.
3. Better: of superior quality or excellence.

SOURCES:
http://www.dictionary.com...
http://www.dictionary.com...
http://www.dictionary.com...

In other words, my opponent is arguing that an individual filling a low-level job with little to no experience or skills is qualified to receive equal benefits as everyone else and superior pay compared to what they receive now.

Now for my argument:

1. Salary and Employee Benefits are to be Decided by Employers
The tenth amendment to the US Constitution states that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." The US Constitution does not have anything on entry level positions, and (as far as I have seen), not one of the fifty states have made any laws regarding entry level positions. Therefore, the right to decide salaries and employee benefits belongs to the people, more specifically, the business owner. Furthermore, employees have the right to turn down a job opportunity or leave at any time (given that they did not sign any legal contract binding them for a specific time), and on top of that, some businesses allow employees to negotiate their salaries.

2. That's Not How Entry Level Works
Entry level jobs are supposed to give the employee skills and experience; it's illogical to pay someone with less skill and less experience higher or equal to employees who have much more skill and much more experience (especially if they have put in more time for that specific business). They also help employers find out if the employee will be a valuable asset to the company. Of course this process takes time; an employer can't immediately tell if someone will benefit they're company just by looking at them.

SOURCES:
https://www.law.cornell.edu...
Debate Round No. 1
migmag

Pro

Facts are that MOST Americans agree that EVERYONE NEEDS Healthcare, Life insurance, Dental insurance, Vision Insurance, Disability Insurance, Sick Pay, Vacation Pay, Holiday Pay, you lose
TheConservativeSocialist

Con

My opponent, rather than defending against my argument, replied with false information and no source to back it up. I will now disprove my opponents argument that 'MOST Americans agree that EVERYONE NEEDS Healthcare [and all the programs after it]'. Before I do, allow me to clarify something: Americans do need healthcare, but the healthcare my opponent refers to is healthcare that is provided by employers to employees, hence the resolution 'Entry level employees deserve... the SAME benefits as everyone else.'

"With the advent of the Affordable Care Act, the share of Americans convinced that health care is a right shrank from a majority to a minority."

"The erosion of the belief in health care as a government-protected right is perhaps the most dramatic reflection of these trends. In 2006, by a margin of more than two to one, 69-28, those surveyed by Gallup said that the federal government should guarantee health care coverage for all citizens of the United States. By late 2014, however, Gallup found that this percentage had fallen 24 points to 45 percent, while the percentage of respondents who said health care is not a federal responsibility nearly doubled to 52 percent."

"The Structure of Inequality and Americans" Attitudes Toward Redistribution," suggests that Democratic programs providing tax-financed benefits to the poor are facing growing hostility. The author of the paper, Matthew Luttig, a Ph.D. candidate in political science at the University of Minnesota, found that while "numerous political theorists suggest that rising inequality and the shift in the distribution of income to those at the top should lead to increasing support for liberal policies," in practice, "rising inequality in the United States has largely promoted ideological conservatism."

"Even worse for Democrats, the paper found that "information about inequality also makes respondents trust government less," decreasing "by nearly twenty percent the share of respondents who "trust government" most of the time."

To sum it all up, after the implementation of Obamacare, the majority of Americans OPPOSED government-provided healthcare and programs like it. Everyone does need healthcare, they just should not have to rely on someone else for it, nor do they want to rely on someone else for it. If entry-level employees want the same benefits as those with more experience, they should work hard for it and EARN it - and given the information I provided, it would seem most Americans are okay with that.

SOURCES:
http://pnhp.org...
Debate Round No. 2
migmag

Pro

So let me get this straight, you HONESTLY expect the readers in here to AGREE with you that it's OKAY that MOST employees who make LESS than $15/hour do NOT get offered ANY benefits! No Sick Pay No Holiday Pay No Vacation Pay No Disability Pay no Life Insurance, no Health Insurance, no Dental Insurance, no Optical Insurance, No Perks, No Discounts, No Retirement Benefits No 401k, no Pension!!!! You are CRAZY if you think MOST Americans think thats "ok". Also WHAT "false" information do you CLAIM that I made? THAT statement I just made is COMMON SENSE and EVERY poll EVER taken will AGREE with me!!! EVERYONE gets SICK, EVERYONE will eventually get SOME form of Cancer if they live long enough, EVERYONE NEEDS their Teeth Cleaned every 6 months, EVERYONE NEEDS a YEARLY phyiscal exam to make sure they have no diseases or illnesses!! Again EVERYONE NEEDS healthcare or else they will IMMEDIATELY go into BANKRUPTCY with ANY medical condition that they acquire!!! And the people who NEED health insurance/care the MOST are the people who make MINIMUM WAGE! Just because SOME People are SELFISH and HOSTILE towards the poor and very low income that make SO LITTLE that they are eligible for Food Stamps or Medicaid does NOT mean that is RIGHT or FAIR or JUST behavior, it's SELFISH behavior. By the way EVERYTHING you are sharing is from CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN leaning sources. The Affordable Care Act (NOT "obamacare, that name is RACIST) helped TENS of MILLIONS of Americans GET insurance who BEFORE were NOT offered insurance by their employer and others who were DENIED coverage because of Pre-existing conditions! EVERY FIRST world country ON THE PLANT OFFERS FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for ALL of their citizens EXCEPT the US!!!!!! HOW do you expect people making FIVE to TEN dollars an hour to AFFORD healthcare on THEIR income on the PRIVATE market? MOST of us have SOME type of Pre Existing condition, so that means HIGH RISK insurance that costs HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of dollars. HOW do someone making MINIMUM WAGE afford healthcare WITHOUT government assistance? THEY DONT!!! "hard work" has NOTHING to do with what happens at work. It's IF your supervisor or manager LIKES you which determines the SIZE of your yearly raises and IF or WHEN you are given a promotion, WAKE UP to how EMPLOYMENT WORKS. I work in HR and know EVERYTHING about the realities of employment and promotions and raises.
TheConservativeSocialist

Con

"You honestly expect the readers in here to agree with you that it's okay that most employees who make less than $15/hour do not get offered benefits?"
The definition I provided states that entry level employment relates to a low-level job where the employee gains experience (http://www.dictionary.com...). It is not fair that someone with no initial experience and no initial skill, who is not YET seen as a valuable asset to the company should be given higher pay and the same benefits. What I'm saying is that employees should prove themselves to their employers and EARN the benefits and the higher pay.

"Also what "false" information do you claim that I made? that statement I just made is common and every poll ever taken will agree with me!!!"
Well then SHOW me ONE poll, that's all I want, ONE CURRENT POLL from a source with equal to greater credibility to my own that proves your point. You haven't provided any sources for the entire debate!

"EVERYONE gets SICK, EVERYONE will eventually get SOME form of Cancer if they live long enough, EVERYONE NEEDS their Teeth Cleaned every 6 months, EVERYONE NEEDS a YEARLY physical exam to make sure they have no diseases or illnesses!! Again EVERYONE NEEDS healthcare or else they will IMMEDIATELY go into BANKRUPTCY with ANY medical condition that they acquire!!! And the people who NEED health insurance/care the MOST are the people who make MINIMUM WAGE!"
I KNOW, I said that too!!! "Americans do need healthcare." -me in Round 2, first paragraph. It's not like I'm arguing that employers should not offer healthcare, I'm arguing that entry level employees should prove themselves to their employers before receiving benefits. And I'm not hostile or selfish to the poor; I just think they should earn employee benefits just as everyone else does.

"EVERY FIRST world country ON THE PLANT OFFERS FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for ALL of their citizens EXCEPT the US!!!!!! HOW do you expect people making FIVE to TEN dollars an hour to AFFORD healthcare on THEIR income on the PRIVATE market? MOST of us have SOME type of Pre Existing condition, so that means HIGH RISK insurance that costs HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of dollars. HOW do someone making MINIMUM WAGE afford healthcare WITHOUT government assistance? "
Actually, we're talking about wages and benefits of entry-level employees, not government programs like universal healthcare. I brought up the concept of Obamacare (it's not racist, it's the president's last name followed by the word 'care') and single-payer healthcare to show how unfavorable they have become overall after the Affordable Care Act was implemented.

"By the way EVERYTHING you are sharing is from CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN leaning sources."
The information I provided from Cornell Law University (my first source) was a quote of the tenth amendment of the US Constitution and a little bit of information as to what it means; I highly doubt they're conservative, and even if they are, I only took non-biased facts. My second source is literally called Physicians for a National Health Program, that's the exact OPPOSITE of Conservative. MOST of they're articles are in support of a universal healthcare program, the one I found was about how support for universal healthcare drastically declined in recent years.
Debate Round No. 3
migmag

Pro

MOST employees who make LESS than $15/hour do NOT get offered ANY benefits! No Sick Pay No Holiday Pay No Vacation Pay No Disability Pay no Life Insurance, no Health Insurance, no Dental Insurance, no Optical Insurance, No Perks, No Discounts, No Retirement Benefits No 401k, no Pension!!!! You are CRAZY if you think MOST Americans think thats "ok". Also WHAT "false" information do you CLAIM that I made? THAT statement I just made is COMMON SENSE and EVERY poll EVER taken will AGREE with me!!! EVERYONE gets SICK, EVERYONE will eventually get SOME form of Cancer if they live long enough, EVERYONE NEEDS their Teeth Cleaned every 6 months, EVERYONE NEEDS a YEARLY phyiscal exam to make sure they have no diseases or illnesses!! Again EVERYONE NEEDS healthcare or else they will IMMEDIATELY go into BANKRUPTCY with ANY medical condition that they acquire!!! And the people who NEED health insurance/care the MOST are the people who make MINIMUM WAGE! Just because SOME People are SELFISH and HOSTILE towards the poor and very low income that make SO LITTLE that they are eligible for Food Stamps or Medicaid does NOT mean that is RIGHT or FAIR or JUST behavior, it's SELFISH behavior. By the way EVERYTHING you are sharing is from CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN leaning sources. The Affordable Care Act (NOT "obamacare, that name is RACIST) helped TENS of MILLIONS of Americans GET insurance who BEFORE were NOT offered insurance by their employer and others who were DENIED coverage because of Pre-existing conditions! EVERY FIRST world country ON THE PLANT OFFERS FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for ALL of their citizens EXCEPT the US!!!!!! HOW do you expect people making FIVE to TEN dollars an hour to AFFORD healthcare on THEIR income on the PRIVATE market? MOST of us have SOME type of Pre Existing condition, so that means HIGH RISK insurance that costs HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of dollars! HOW are they supposed to afford that on MINIMUM WAGE? They CANT, that's how. Grow up
TheConservativeSocialist

Con

My opponent has only repeated (word for word) their previous argument - and, not surprisingly, there are still NO SOURCES!!!

In America, you are either self-employed or you work for someone else. When you work for someone else, you have to PROVE YOURSELF by demonstrating that you are a valuable asset to the company; you must EARN your benefits rather than immediately receive them - that's how it works!

Next round, please defend against my round 3 rebuttal - and provide a SOURCE!!!
Debate Round No. 4
migmag

Pro

FACTS are FACTS, I do NOT have to provide ANY source!!! This is AMERICA where you can do WHAT you want WHERE you want WHEN you want. YOU would only COMPLAIN that I'm using LIBERAL sources anyway, JUST like YOUR resources are all CONSERVATIVE sources. FACTS are FACTS! the BOTTOM get paid AWFUL wages with NO benefits and almost EVERYONE can agree THAT is WRONG,
TheConservativeSocialist

Con

"This is AMERICA where you can do WHAT you want WHERE you want WHEN you want."
Really? So why can't employers pay entry-level employees less and deny them employee benefits until they prove themselves? I think you should change that statement to 'this is America where you can do what you want where you want when you want as long as it does not contradict my opinion'.

"YOU would only COMPLAIN that I'm using LIBERAL sources anyway."
How would you know? At this point, it's too late for you to provide a source anyway, but I would've looked at any source - liberal or not.

"YOUR resources are all CONSERVATIVE sources."
Actually, one's unbiased and the other is bordering on socialist. I used Cornell Law University for an (unbiased) interpretation of the tenth amendment, and I used a poll from an article from a website advocating for universal healthcare - a socialist concept.

"FACTS are FACTS!"
What facts? You just typed your opinion each round (no sources) and capitalized every other word.

"the BOTTOM get paid AWFUL wages with NO benefits."
So why doesn't this 'bottom' find a job that pays well? Why doesn't this 'bottom' start their own business, or at least something part-time on the side? I doubt that this 'bottom' you refer to is stupid.

"almost EVERYONE can agree THAT is WRONG."
Who is 'almost everyone'? Do you have a poll to prove it? Some sort of study conducted by a credible organization? Anything? Or are you just assuming that 'almost everyone' sides with you because 'almost everyone' shares your mentality, your beliefs, and your opinions?

Look, I know you mean well and you want to help the so-called 99%, but I must respectfully disagree with you. Thanks for this debate and I hope we can do it again sometime.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ILikePie5 7 months ago
ILikePie5
Just looking at all of those caps makes my eyes go to sleep
Posted by migmag 7 months ago
migmag
I am here to EDUCATE America about the REALITIES of how Large Corporations and Big Businesses treat their employees who make LESS than $20/hour, ie non exempt ie hourly employees.
Posted by RonaldTrumpkin 7 months ago
RonaldTrumpkin
Migmag is an obvious, and a poor troll.
Posted by migmag 7 months ago
migmag
MOST employees who make LESS than $15/hour do NOT get offered ANY benefits! No Sick Pay No Holiday Pay No Vacation Pay No Disability Pay no Life Insurance, no Health Insurance, no Dental Insurance, no Optical Insurance, No Perks, No Discounts, No Retirement Benefits No 401k, no Pension!!!! You are CRAZY if you think MOST Americans think thats "ok". Also WHAT "false" information do you CLAIM that I made? THAT statement I just made is COMMON SENSE and EVERY poll EVER taken will AGREE with me!!! EVERYONE gets SICK, EVERYONE will eventually get SOME form of Cancer if they live long enough, EVERYONE NEEDS their Teeth Cleaned every 6 months, EVERYONE NEEDS a YEARLY phyiscal exam to make sure they have no diseases or illnesses!! Again EVERYONE NEEDS healthcare or else they will IMMEDIATELY go into BANKRUPTCY with ANY medical condition that they acquire!!! And the people who NEED health insurance/care the MOST are the people who make MINIMUM WAGE! Just because SOME People are SELFISH and HOSTILE towards the poor and very low income that make SO LITTLE that they are eligible for Food Stamps or Medicaid does NOT mean that is RIGHT or FAIR or JUST behavior, it's SELFISH behavior. By the way EVERYTHING you are sharing is from CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN leaning sources. The Affordable Care Act (NOT "obamacare, that name is RACIST) helped TENS of MILLIONS of Americans GET insurance who BEFORE were NOT offered insurance by their employer and others who were DENIED coverage because of Pre-existing conditions! EVERY FIRST world country ON THE PLANT OFFERS FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for ALL of their citizens EXCEPT the US!!!!!! HOW do you expect people making FIVE to TEN dollars an hour to AFFORD healthcare on THEIR income on the PRIVATE market? MOST of us have SOME type of Pre Existing condition, so that means HIGH RISK insurance that costs HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of dollars! HOW are they supposed to afford that on MINIMUM WAGE? They CANT, that's how. Grow up
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by ConserativeDemocrat 7 months ago
ConserativeDemocrat
migmagTheConservativeSocialistTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Pro insults Con repeatedly, and copied and pasted an argument. S&G: Pro CAPITALIZES random WORDS incorrectly, SO S&G goes TO Con. Argunents: Pro just states that he believes entry level employees deserve more benefits, but fails to explain why. He needs to back up his assertions with evidence. Sources: Con is the only one who uses sources, and they are unbiased. Pro needed to post sources, but fails to do that at all.
Vote Placed by RonaldTrumpkin 7 months ago
RonaldTrumpkin
migmagTheConservativeSocialistTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: CON wins conduct points for not resorting to attacking his opponent (PRO tells CON to grow up and states that CON is selfish and hates the poor without any reason to). CON wins Spelling/Grammar as PRO as PRO uses many run-on sentences, overuses capitalization, and misuses punctuation. Arguments to CON. PRO speaks of "facts" but instead talks about his desires for how the system should work. He makes many hasty generalization fallacies and appeals to ignorance. Sources to CON, finally, as PRO uses zero sources and attacks CON's for being "too conservative," when in fact his sources are unbiased.