The Instigator
9spaceking
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Zaradi
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

Escape Plan!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
Zaradi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,972 times Debate No: 64776
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (140)
Votes (8)

 

9spaceking

Pro


Watch the video to get pumped up

Round one acceptance

Round two we each describe a probable prison (it can be imaginary), with the layout (it can also be drawn, saved as a picture, then uploaded onto Debate.org within a photo album so as to copy and paste it into this debate)--don't forget the Isolation Chambers!! Also note in what kind of environment the prison is--are you going to copy Escape Plan and put me in the ocean near Morocco, or are you gonna put me in a typical town jail? Guard's routines-do they all just sit in a room staring at cameras all day long, or do they pace about outside the cells? Include the prisoners' routines too, with at least 6 breaks throughout the day where they aren't in their cells, 3 breaks in which they eat all their daily meals; maybe you can also include the warden's personality and knowledge, if that helps us escape the prison, and possible outside help (lunch, dinner, etc....how could the prisoners communicate with each other?)
Post as much useful details, such as how the prisons are locked, what the walls are made out of, what exactly is served for lunch ("You have very good chocolate milk"), etc.

Round three we post our "escape plans" for how we escape the prisons. All we have to do is to make it out of the prison enough for police cars to actually drive to get us (we can't just stand outside of the prison, we have to be able to stand like at least 100 meters away from the physical prison itself)

Round four we rebut each other with possible problems or flaws within each other's plans (again, try to include as much details as possible to help the opponent escape from the prison, we can message each other and type up the new information in the response rounds).

Round five final rebuttals and conclusion

Good luck and have fun to whoever accepts.
Zaradi

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
9spaceking

Pro

PRISON DESCRIPTION/BACKGROUND
The Spache Prison is one of the most secure prisons in the world. Built only 3 years ago, this prison is for the worst of the worst. It is 15 floors high with a special layout and a very tough, terrible Isolation Chamber indeed. It contains up to 150 prisoners in total, and so far, none have escaped without serving their entire sentence.

PRISON LAYOUT
Let me introduce my layout first before the environment for a cliff-hanger like situation and a more enjoyable read.
We will assume we magically already memorized the blueprints for each of our prisons in our situations, just to clarify.
Without further ado I introduce to you...

FLOOR ONE BLUEPRINT


FLOORS TWO TO FIFTEEN



OUTSIDE THE PRISON (I.C.=Isolation chamber)


And most importantly...
THE PRISON ENVIRONMENT
*Wait for it....

*Wait for it a bit more...
















(Drum roll please)....











My prison is...







situated...












on....








THIS PLACE!!

My prison is situated on top of a mountain of terrace farming. There is otherwise only one road to reach my prison. That is why my isolation chambers are so terrible. Not only do they NOT have air conditioning....


(Note that, this view is flipped. I made a typo, it's the view of the isolation chamber from UPWARDS. You lay sideways on the glass (Your face is either pointing downwards to the "ground", or outwards so you see pretty much nothing but air, with the light coming from all directions except from the door, and while the door is right beside you, made of solid steel, if you try to face the steel, the sun light reflects from it strongly and hurts your eyes. It would be very hard to close your eyes and try to imagine your way out of vertigo.)

Just in case you don't understand, THIS is the real sideways view of the isolation chamber:


It's incredibly cramped!! Keep in mind that this is leaning outwards, with a gazillion feet below it. Obviously dying in this debate wouldn't make you "Escape", exactly, as even Ray isn't stupid enough to jump into the ocean and suicide, so there's no way out of here!

The cameras are watched by the monitor room.

GUARD ROUTINE
The monitor room has 20 guards stationed there. Normally 5 guards are there to go through the examining process, which makes sure that prisoners or visitors hold no weapon, and they are there for logical reasons. At least 5 other guards are required to go and check all the floors and go back down into the monitor room five times in the morning and 5 times in the night, reporting to each other, as well as the warden (who is I). They get to decide when they want to go, and the warden suggests they spread out the times evenly, although randomly, to be unpredictable. The other 10 guards are to view the isolation chamber cameras to make sure the prisoner isn't doing something they shouldn't be in the I.C. If nothing is going on in any isolation chamber then one guard can just go and check out the prisoner's cells randomly.
During work-out time there are guards posted near the work-out machines. The prisoners are to put back their workout material into boxes and the guards count the supplies to make sure no dumb-bells or stretching things are taken. As mentioned before, these workout material are only 3 years old, so the screws aren't anywhere close to coming lose, or the iron to rusting.

There is also a very tricky-to-get-past guard situated on top of the building, very experienced, pacing from left to right, watching out for any suspicious activity or a run-away.
Note that all guards have walkie-talkies that can communicate with each other at practically any time. They also all have their cell-phones with them just in case they need a back-up (forgot their walkie-talkie).

THE CELLS
The prisoner's cells are easy and simple. Instead of the super awesome technology used within the examination process, these cells are the simple metal-walls, simple sink with toothbrush and toothpaste, and messed up dirty bed along with toilet beside the sink. The wall has metal bars. The prisoners face each other. Easy peasy, lemon-squeazy. Simple, yet effective.

EAT YOUR VEGGIES!
What's for lunch time? Unfortunately for the prisoners, we don't have "very good chocolate milk". We require them to come out and eat outside. Not that they can escape. There are 3 guards posted outside, always walking back and forth, watching the prisoners carefully. We even have a few cameras posted all about so that the people in the monitor room have something to do while they eat too. We use plastic cups containing water, and expect the prisoners to eat with their hands. (Platic knives and forks? Naw, let's not give them any chance) Some times we have beef jerky, sometimes we have hard-cooked steak as meat, we have lettuce and brocolli as vegetables, a barely sweet (more like sour) "dessert" as almost-tasteless jello or some random "cake" thing that doesn't really have any sugar in it whatsoever. We also serve very tough, tasteless bread. After the prisoners eat, they are required to fold the tables in and push them to the fence.

DELIVERY OF SUPPLIES
Every month we deliver supplies. We make sure they don't deliver during a meal, and we manually post guards to walk around the cells whenever we deliver supplies. We have a heat-ray scan, as well as a top-bottom look of the truck before we call it in. Then they drive into the special garage--but not before our monitor people triple-check that this dude is still the dude he was around the fence, then he and some guards deliver the supply into the supply rooms or the Three floors of basements we have.

So, just to double check, the most critical parts of our security:
-Can't escape out of isolation chamber, you will fall and die
-Can't utilize "Very good chocolate milk" or eating utencils to escape
-Very tight scanning and closely observing the supply-delivery man
-Even if you make it past the fence via magic, people will be terrace farming and notice you immediately before you even run 100 meters
-Guard routine is insane and unpredicatable

If both of our prisons appear to be unescapable, then we can either decide on voting on who makes it the furthest to escaping, or whose prisons appears to be weaker. Or, we can help each other out by adding helpful information that might increase the chances that we escape each other's prisons.
Onto you Zaradi. If the prison looks too darn hard, then you can contact me for help or change the rules only to "who came the furthest to escaping" rather than "who had the smarter plan to escape the incredibly secure prison".

Zaradi

Con

Welcome To Hell!

Or, at least, that's what the 100 or so unlucky souls who have commited crimes so dastardly, so unheard of that they get locked up in this maximum security prison complex call it. It's a 20 story prison complex located on a mostly uninhabited island somewhere within the Indian Ocean. To get to it the prisoners are flown to a nearby military base in India, then flown in via helicopter to a nearby helipad, where they are driven to the prison. Only the best for the worst of society.

The layout for the prisons are here:

Floor One:




Floors 2-20


If the picture's are fuzzy I'll try to do something about it but I make no promises T_T

Guard Routines:

This prison employs 300 guards working various shifts around the twenty-four hour period of a day. Due to the remoteness of the island, guards are housed within the prison. Guards work eight-month periods before being flown off-site for four months of vacation to spend time with family and friends. At any point in time the prison complex is inhabited by 100 to 120 guards, with 30-40 of those guards being awake and on shift at any point during the day.

While on shift, guards have a number of responsibilites. Guards man the security office, monitoring cameras and conducting radio checks with patrolling guards to ensure that all is well in the prison. Guards patrol each of the nineteen floors of cells in threes at irrelgular schedules.

During time that they are not on shift, there are dormitories for them to rest in, containing beds, computers, entertainment devices and recreational equipment. Dorms also hold mini kitchens where they can prepare for themselves a variety of meals.

Meal-time:

Meal-time occurs all-throughout the day. Prisoners are taken in 5 sections (so twenty prisoners at a time), are escorted down to the cafeterias, where they are fed and returned to their cells. They are served on flimsy paper plates without utensils. Meals consist of cold, dry oatmeal for breakfast, lunchmeat sandwhiches for lunch, and cold, dry chicken breast with very little seasoning for dinner. Water is available to drink during all meals, and is served in small, paper cups. Prisoners throw away all plates and cups before being escorted back to their cells.

Recreational Times:

Due to the island's size, all recreational activities prisoners may partake in are done in-cell. They may request the guard to bring them certain exercize equipment items to be used. Guards supervise the prisoner during these times, then take all of the equipment back with them. Running, however, is not an option for exercize.

Cells:

Prisoner Cells are the scum of the earth. A bare sheet is provided to them as meager protection against the ground. A sink that only provides cold water is provided, as well as toothpaste for them to brush their teeth with (no toothbrushes, however). A series of sewage pipes run through each of the cells, making the prisoner's toilet, effectively, a hole in the ground. Small windows allow prisoners to view their fellow prison-mates, but cells are individual cells.

Isolation Cells:

Prisoners that are deemed to dangerous to their prison-mates' safety are taken out of their original cells and placed into isolated cells. These cells are located on the twentieth floor in a separate tower connected by an enclosed walkway. These doors are tightly monitored, with the entrance to the isolation tower itself monitored by numerous security measures. These cells are mere square containers. They are never allowed to leave their cells, and are exempt from the usual lunch runs. Food is directly brought their rooms. If they refuse to eat, they are sedated and fed via a feeding tube.

Security Measures:

All guards on shift are in contact with each other via walkie-talkie. Most doors are protected with a simple keycard lock, requiring you to slide a keycard in order to disable the lock. Others are protected with a six-digit pincode--a pincode that rotates weekly--in addition to sliding a keycard. Others still, such as the security room door and the door accessing the walkway from the main cell area, also require a thumbprint scan to verify an identity. And as a final security measure for those trying to enter and exit the isolation cell area, cameras are situated by the door for facial recognition of the person trying to leave. If a person other than a guard is trying to use the door, the door shuts down and must be manually overriden by a guard in the security office.

Cameras are placed in all cells, in the hallways and other rooms that prisoners have access to. All of these cameras feed back to the security room, that also doubles as an armory.

In the event that a prisoner, somehow, manages to make it outside of the prison walls, the compound itself is encompassed by a electrified fence, twenty-five feet tall and topped with barbed wire. The only gate that allows access into the compound is opened remotely from the security room.

Resupplying:

Supplies are flown in via a similar manner to which prisoners are flown in: supplies are brought in via helicopter to a nearby helipad, and then driven in by guards to the prison compound. Supply deliveries do not stop the normal flow of the day for prisoners. Vehicles are manually checked for things that do not belong there (such as escaping prisoners) before it leaves the helipad and before it leaves the compound.

Have fun escaping from hell!
Debate Round No. 2
9spaceking

Pro

My opponent's prison is way, way too secure. I do agree that Hell, is truly, a living hell. My place seems like a walk in the park by comparison. There is pretty much no way out of my opponent's prison once you're in there.

For one, the prison layout, although simple to grasp and plan in one's head, seems to have no obvious flaws in it that I can see, even when "I look at it from a different perspective", as Ray Breslin suggests. Not only are the cells locked well, but as are the guard's room from the outside, and even the camera center. The cells themselves are made of solid steel, and not only do the bed material plus the water NOT help us escape, there are cameras located in EVERY FREAKING CELL. (That has gotta cost A LOT. If I ever do this again, I'll try putting a financial limit on how costly our prisons can be :P)
Moving on to the isolation chambers. For once isolation chambers do what they do: they isolate and are even harder than the cells to escape. There seems to be no reason to go to the isolation chambers except only that one time to see what they look like and how unescapable they are.

Next up is outside help. Without letters "to my family", I cannot communicate with the outside people for them to help me. Even if I get paper trays, and "write" on them using the water, I cannot find a way to "send it outside". Even while I can communicate with other prisoners, they won't be able to help either. The only availible materials, as far as we are concerned, are these possibilities:
-Prisoners wearing glasses
-Our clothes and shoes
-The single mattress
-The bed
-Paper trays/cups
The outside help, even though available, is far too limited. HOWEVER I have a plan that I will reveal later that involves outside help, that just might work...

Let's move on to finally anaylzing the guard routine. The guard routine, similar to mine, is unpredictable, but while my guards patrol the entire building, he has specific amounts of guards assigned to every floor. Even without the guards, the cameras and monitors are enough to prevent any escape from within the cell. As for the guard routine during lunch, there's like one guard for every person escorting there, and with them watching, the prisoner won't be getting any paper trays or cups any time soon--not that they would help in cracking steel walls, anyhow. There are simply no blind spots--whether in the cell, isolation chamber areas, lunch, or even work-out time, there are too many guards. Even if we suppose that the door was open--as Zaradi mentioned in the comments, two guards stand in the doorway while you excercise--AND I managed to "accidentally" fling the weights, surprising them and giving them concussions--chances to tazer them with a taste of their own medicine--all of this under PERFECT timing, seeing the guards just went back, then the monitor people will probably notice and call guards to come up from the lower floor to get you. Even assuming by Hollywood magic, I manage to avoid the guards' tazers while counter-tazering them, and for the love of God MAKE IT OUT OF THE FRONT DOOR OF THE PRISON, I STILL CANNOT MAKE IT AT LEAST 100 METERS OUTSIDE OF THE PRISON!!
But fortunately I have a plan B.
Being the Houdini I am, I know I can't make it past the fence without some serious threats. Therefore I could technically use the tazered guards to open up the security rooms, and even if guards are already there, grabbing for firearms, I could use the guards as "vests" to protect me, forcing them to change their positions to try to shoot me/tazer me without harming the guards, and I can then obtain firearms to threaten the guards's lives (or at least, point a gun at a tazered guard's head), and then....they'll be forced to open the gate for me, and VIOLA! I have escaped!
(Note that, even if the guards are well-trained to react and dodge/catch the weights in a Hollywood movie-style, I could still yell in a very convincing way while shockingly pointing behind them: "WHAT??! HOW'D HE MAKE IT OUT THERE??!" And I guarantee both of the guards will look behind them, giving myself giving a good chance to knock them clear)

Zaradi of course will question this plan and point out the flaws, whatever they may be. That is why, of course, I always have a plan B. You see, I didn't know if I was going to get help on the island. Thus I communicated with "the helper" in our team to track me down with a tracker and use a boat to get to the island. This "helper" has many tools available. He uses binoculars to watch out for a helicopter indicating incoming prisoners, and listens while looking carefully for incoming trucks. After making absolutely sure there is no one coming, since there is nobody outside of the prison, they cannot see him working. He uses rubber gloves to protect against the electric fence, and cuts an opening near the left side, around the back, to make sure that when the guards come, they won't notice the hole in the fence. And then, he'll leave, knowing I'd find a way out of the prison. And my previous plan talking about the troubles of the fence will be gone! I knew my helper put a hole in the fence, and I'd be able to quickly sprint to the fence, getting out of the prison. I have no doubts that I will be able to make it 100 meters away from the prison before they either shoot me or tazer me. I'm a mighty fast runner.

As you can see as hellish as your prison may be, and as harsh the environments are, and even though I spotted no flaw in your prison layout, your guard routine was kind of predictable in some sense (once the guards walk to the end, they walk back), and I have successfully escaped your prison! Let's see how you do, Zaradi.
Zaradi

Con

I'm only slightly dissapointed by the plan to break out from my opponent. BUUUUUUT since I can't refute it here, I'll just post my plan to escape from his prison.

The biggest flaw in my opponent's prison is that he allows all 150 prisoners to each lunch in the same enclosed area with only three guards to watch the lot of them. That's a 50:1 prison:guard ratio, which is just BEGGING for a riot.

"Well," I say, scratching my metaphorical beard with an arrogant smirk coating my lips, "Let's give them one, then."

The plan would be relatively simple. All the prisoners would get word from the people in their adjoining cells that the next day during whatever meal is next, all 150 of them would swarm the three guards watching them. Since the cells are simple metal bars and they're situated next to each other, the communication could occur relatively safely. And in the event that they couldn't communicate with each other, plans could be formed during the meal itself.

From there, it gets even simpler: once the meal starts, and the guards are walking around and trying to keep an eye on everyone, the 150 charge the 3 from all sides.

The reason this works is because
a) Overwhelming numbers: It doesn't matter how well-trained in hand-to-hand those guards are; eventually they're going to go down.
b) Battlefield Advantage: The only way smaller numbers have a decent chance against larger forces is if they can control the number of forces that get thrown at them at a time. In an open area, however, all 150 can come at them from all sides at the same time, meaning that they just get dog-piled.
c) Burden Overload: Each guard has to be responsible for watching over 50 prisoners, roughly. With them trying to keep an eye on so many prisoners, it'd be relatively simple for one to come up from behind and start things off with an easy suckerpunch.

Once the three guards are incapacitated, the plan is almost done. While it sucks that the door from the outside to inside the prison isn't locked, that can be solved by barricading the tables against the doors, delaying the rest of the guards from coming out for long enough for part three of the plan to come into effect: Naked time.

Barded wire is kind of tricky to get past. It's hard to go through it without it cutting you to ribbons and it's hard to grab it to go over because the barbs will stab you until you're Swiss cheese. To get over it you need a way to grab it and not get stabbed by the barbs so you can pull yourself over it.

Any kind of fabric or cloth, especially pant leggings, work really well for this because they take the brunt of the barb in the fabric, letting you (relatively) grab the barbed wire and pull yourself over the top of it without getting hurt.

So part three is simple: take off your pants, climb the fence, use the pant leggings to cover the barbed wire and pull yourself over it, grab the pants on your way down, and you're home free. Remember to roll through the landing so you don't hurt yourself!

Once you're past the fence, you're home free. Put your pants back on to show some common decency for the terrace farmer's you're running past as you peace the f*ck out.

One point I'm sure my opponent's going to bring up is "WHAT ABOUT THE GUY ON THE ROOF? HE'S GOT A GUN AND HE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE EVERYTHING!!"

My response? "What about him?"

The gun that 9space says all guards carry (including the guy on the roof) is this hand-cannon (http://www.washingtontimes.com...). The reason I don't care about his gun is:

a) It fires three calibers of ammunition, .460 Mag, .45 Colt and .454 Casull cartridges, all of which are known for having incredibly high recoil.
b) He's going to be shooting that high-recoil gun from 15 stories up, only further compounding inaccuracy.
c) Even if he's f*cking Clint Eastwood, he has six shots. There's 150 prisoners. Even if he hits all 6 shots and wounds/kills all six targets, there's still going to be 144 prisoners escaping.

His uselessness would only be compounded by the fact that the door would be baricaded, meaning that he can't even effectively tell the guards in the prison to come: they wouldn't even be able to make it outside of the prison in time to stop anyone.

So there you have it. My (relatively) fool-proof plan to escape from 9space's prison with minimal to no casualties.
Debate Round No. 3
9spaceking

Pro

I expected the roit to happen.
A message before my rebuttals
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Congradulations you escaped :P
I concede
You can accept my rematch
This really wasn't fair in the first place to begin with. I put really no restrictions on the prison. Technically you could've had the electronic dog collars, and put merely two prisoners inside, with 1000 freaking guards watching them 24/7, merely random jelly with water in it for all three meals, and a prison inside a prison inside a prison inside a prison inside a prison, and you still wouldn't have broken the rules. Good debate, I learned my lesson and the next time I do this it's gonna be much better and fair.
Sorry for wasting your judges' time, I know this is a front page debate but, I made a mistake, and that mistake killed me. I know my plan stinks while Zaradi's plan is fool-proof. Game over, my opponent wins.
Vote my opponent.
Zaradi

Con

DAMM I didn't even get to refute my opponent's plan D:

oh well. I accept the concession. Am I even allowed to reject concessions? "NO YOU MUST DEBATE ME B*TCH!!"

Good debate, anyway.
Debate Round No. 4
9spaceking

Pro

Eh. You can still refute it. But you'll win either way.

Anyhow, the "revenge debate" will be called "design your own prison". I obviously won't be using the same design, as the requirements make it tougher and harsher to design a good prison.
Vote my opponent.
Zaradi

Con

Meh I'll probably let someone else take it, I don't have a whole lot of time in my schedule right now.
Debate Round No. 5
140 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Adam_Godzilla 2 years ago
Adam_Godzilla
fascinating. Absolutely astonishing. 10/10!
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
I know, I know....XD
Posted by TheRussian 2 years ago
TheRussian
I felt like Con's prison was a bit too unrealistic...Pro, if you want to do this sort of thing again, find a way to ensure that the prisons are realistic, because of course I could say that the prison has 700 guards for every prisoner who is surrounded by 4 feet of concrete etc....
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
by the way, what were my flaws in my plan? Just curious.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
:P
it's a shame I haven't forced anyone to concede yet.
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
And now you have to add me to your list of people who've made you concede too :P
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
this is really embarrassing... DX front page debate conceded...
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
doesn't matter anyways.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
yeah....that's pretty dumb really
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
Wait, can the prisoner's talk to each other in their cells?
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by sherlockholmesfan2798 2 years ago
sherlockholmesfan2798
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by Gabe1e 2 years ago
Gabe1e
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by AngelofDeath 2 years ago
AngelofDeath
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession from Pro
Vote Placed by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: concession
Vote Placed by johnlubba 2 years ago
johnlubba
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Excellent idea for a challenge, Concession from Pro deserves at least a good conduct point, arguments rightfully go to Con.
Vote Placed by BLAHthedebator 2 years ago
BLAHthedebator
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded (quite gracefully) and Con found a way out of Pro's prison with "minimal to no casualties".
Vote Placed by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded and Con had a source for some reason.
Vote Placed by LDPOFODebATeR0328 2 years ago
LDPOFODebATeR0328
9spacekingZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded.