Europe countries should join the BDS and boycott Israel
Debate Rounds (4)
As an Israeli civilian and as a person, I find these charges false, and I believe they originate from a lack of understanding of the situation and information from biased sources.
If I will be given a chance, I will show you the occurrence of events as I see it here from
Israel, and, hopefully, you will join me and the rest of Israel against the BDS and the rest of anti-Israeli squads.
There are several points I'd like to deal with:
First of all, the morality of the IDF. The leadership of the IDF does as much as it can to prevent death and damage. One of the IDF's regular procedures is to phone every single person who lives in an assault area and warning him about an approaching attack. During the summer of 2014 a flyover took place above Gaza, and during it the planes scattered leaflets all over the north of Gaza, warning the citizens in Arabic about several attacks that are about to take place in the city. Sadly, the Hamas didn't allowed the people to leave. You might say Israel could have done more, but I can ensure you even the US don't warn civilians near military targets of ISIS before attacking.
I guess you might have watched some clips or pictures that show an Israeli soldier hits a Palestinian child. First, I need you to understand that most of those records are fakes. Countries like Kuwait and Iran are funding such lies. About the rest, almost all of it is taken out of context. The photographers do not take picture of how this child threw rocks towards the soldiers, don't they? And if, in a rare incident, a soldier truly hit someone without reason, he goes to jail immediately.
Now, to the next subject: Did you knew? Nearly all of the reporters from Europe in Israel are pro-palestines. Many news networks in Europe (like the BBC) almost never publish anything that supports a pro-Israeli position. Most of the people who support the BDS never heard a single fact about Israel, and everything they know is what they have been told, that Israel conquers territories and murders anyone who opposes. In many cases, after hearing the Israeli position, people reconsidered their views.
Let me ask you a question: Do you really want to confiscate an ENTIRE country based on what is quite clearly an anti-Israeli propaganda? Based on your introduction I can tell that you have right-wing political views, but I think you will agree with me that in the modern times in which we live, no one can live without buying products from other places over the world. The climate in each country do not allow to grow all types of foods, and there's not enough area to build factories that will make ALL goods that people need. So, if you need to buy stuff from other countries, why not from Israel? Our apples and strawberries are world-class, as far as I understand it. Soda-Stream is wanted all over the world. Why ban them? Even if all of it was true, if Israel did committed war crimes, how does it help? It won't solve a thing. The Israeli economy will not collapse. If you have a problem, fix it from the source! Boycotting Israel will not bring a world peace, I can insure it to you.
Yesterday there was a terrorism attack in Brussels. The pain people shared worldwide was enormous. Now imagine that every day you take the newspaper, open it in the first page and read that another one was killed in a terror attack. Imagine that during the recent wave of terror, there were more people killed that were killed in both terror attacks by ISIS in Europe. Imagine the fear that surrounds everyone. This is how it feels to live in Israel for the last 6 months. Last time we had an intifada, we stopped it with the international help. Now we need it again.
First of all, when a country is at war, there is always aggression from both sides, in this case, the Israelis and Palestinians. Both sides in this conflict have done wrong things. I am not justifying Hamas nor the IDF, I am just stating this as a fact of war.
As for Israel warning the people in Gaza, there is a lot of discussion on whether or not they give sufficient warning. In this article in the New York Times, it is stated that "the caller said that everyone in the house must leave within five minutes, because it was going to be bombed." This article was talking from an objective standpoint about the people who didn't have time to leave, etc, but I would argue that 5 minutes is never enough to leave the house. Additionally, it doesn't make it ok to bomb civilian houses *no matter what* even if you give them a warning. They lose the place they live in, they lose all of their belongings, and they will be living on the streets until they can figure something out. You might argue that Israel is targeting Hamas, but in that case, why would you give them warning? It is illogical to give your enemy a warning of when and where you will hit because they will be able to stay one step ahead of you. There is no denying that Palestinian civilian houses were bombed and that Palestinian civilians were killed. But whose fault is it?
Israel gave an insufficient warning that it will bomb Gaza, and as a result, civilians died. Hamas may have prevented them from leaving (which is obviously wrong) but to where? Gaza is surrounded by walls and the sea is patrolled by the Israeli navy. Even if they get away from their houses, which they lost forever, they will go near other houses that will be bombed. Even if they manage to get away from all of these houses, they will still be stuck in Gaza because Israel would not allow them into their land. The US doesn't warn civilians near ISIS that they will be bombed, and that is wrong, but that doesn't mean what Israel does is right. It is never ok to kill civilians, period.
You said that most of the records of an Israeli hitting a Palestinian child first are fake and taken out of context, and that if any soldier does that they are punished. Fair enough, let's assume this is true. Is a child throwing rocks at soldiers punishable by being shot? Shouldn't a child, (emphasis on *child*) be punished by something less severe than getting shot? What happened to Juvenile detention centers? These punishments, especially to children (as you yourself stated) are illegal according to international law, because a child needs to be punished as a child and not as an adult. Sure, punish the children, imprison them, give them fines, etc. but do not kill them. The adults are a different matter.
As for the media bias, I would totally argue otherwise. Israel is portrayed extremely well in the media here. Of course they report if a Palestinian child was killed or if Gaza was bombed, but they also report when Israelis are killed or when Hamas kills civilians. Objective reporting is reporting both sides, not one side only, and I think that is what the media does.
Also, there is no question that the expanding settlements in the West Bank and Gaza are illegal under international law. Many leaders have called on Israel to stay within the 1967 borders, as did the United Nations in resolution 242, and as was part of the Camp David treaty, the Oslo Accords, and the Geneva Initiative. That is considered an aggression on the Israeli part (although I won't deny that the Palestinians didn't comply with some aspects of those treaties either, but no business is done with them anyways.)
Finally, the BDS movement is more symbolic than to hurt Israel financially. Of course the United States will still continue to give Israel 8-10 million dollars of aid *per day* (2) and of course Israel will still be supported by many people. The BDS movement will never stop Israel and will barely hurt it financially, but it will make a statement. I agree with you that trade is good, and Israeli dates are tasty, probably strawberries too. But like I said, the BDS movement will barely do anything to Israel's economy. It is mainly there to make a point. You might argue that nothing like it is being done to the Palestinians, but I will say that no business is done with Palestine anyways, so there is no point for that.
Most of people have no idea how difficult it is to defeat the Hamas. Unlike any other possible enemies, the Hamas is unique in that they use hospitals, schools and houses of citizens as arsenals and hiding spots. The IDF has to make serious ethical decisions on an ongoing basis. If you knew that this specific house has missiles and other weapons hidden in it, what would you do? Informing the located people too early means the Hamas can take those weapons away, which is a great danger to many other people. Countless times an attack was canceled because the people who live in didn't leave, but not any attack can be stopped. Sometimes, it is not possible. The pilot can not see the people standing on the roof, how can he know he can not attack? I'm not blaming those citizens, I'm blaming the Hamas for settling there in the first place.
Now, you've spoken about cases in which a soldier shot a Palestinian child. I've checked many places on the internet, and, reducing counterfeits, I found only two cases which are close to the case that you displayed: In the first case, which a soldier shot a man who was lying on the floor ,the soldier was severely punished. In the second case, which a soldier shot two teens who tried to stab him, the soldier has fulfilled all the procedures - He warned the boys, few times, shot in the air, and finally tried to shoot them in their legs (so they will not be able to stab him) - when they ran towards him and the shots hit them in the chest.
On the next subject, I know many movements and organizations over the world call Israel to stay in 1967 borders, but you need to understand that we have valid reasons why we don't leave the West Bank. The first reason - we have people who live there! There are nearly 400 thousand jew civilians in Judea and Samaria. It's nearly the entire population of Wyoming! (a state in the USA). Imagine that the US government is asked to evacuate the entire state for people who many of them deny the country. And that's not all. Last time that Israel was required to evacuate a Palestinian zone was in 2005, and the evacuated zones were Gush Katif. Today, this area is called Gaza Strip, and it's under control of the Hamas. Following this evacuation Israel is now under continuous threat. Why should we allow this to happen again?
The BDS movement claims that Israel is responsible for all these troubles, but I contend that people who do things like this - https://www.youtube.com... - are responsible. (From the little Arabic I know, the subtitles match what is being said...)
So, instead of boycotting Israel and persuade it to something which will only bring more troubles, help us defeat them.
Also, you failed to give *any* citation whatsoever as to only two incidents where a Palestinian child was killed.
On every external article about Israel there are few main sources. At least one of them is Palestinian, and at least one of them is Israeli. Is that so?
I've checked all of the articles you've brought here. The only article who has an Israeli source is the one of the BBC. And even on this article there is a problem, because the Israeli source is B'Tselem, which is an 'Israeli' organization that publish false information about Israel, and worsens our condition in the world. (an article about B'Tselem: http://www.ynetnews.com...) Don't rely only on me. Go and check it yourself, which sources have you brought that have Israeli opinion?
Now, because my word seems unreliable, here is a more reliable source which says exactly what I'm saying: https://www.youtube.com...
People don't trust Jews and Israelis, which makes our job, against the Palestinian incitement, very hard. You might say you treat us equally, but I say you only think you do. https://www.youtube.com...
Israel is in a continuous fight, not only against the Hamas, but only against the anti-Israeli lies which spread at breakneck speed. Just give us a chance to show you what do we think, leave your preliminary views, just for a moment, and listen to us.
I'll finish with the inspiring word of Yair Lapid. He is Israeli, but I think that you can believe me he's not lying.
All we want is peace. سلام. שלום.
Thank you for this debate, and I look forward to the voting.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Overhead 6 months ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Both were polite and neither stooped to negative comments despite the contentious topic. S&G: No significant errors for either side. Both didn't break up paragraphs. Argument and Sources: Problem with Con's argument can be summarised in his R4 statement "I see you find it hard to believe my word, and I understand why. So, instead of trusting me to tell you what is true and what isn't, why won't you check yourself?". It isn't the role of the contender or the voters to simply take CON at his word. CON only seems to realise this to a limited extent in R4 where he offers five sources but they do not support to his point. Looking at his B'Tselem related link as an example, he is backing up his opinion with an opinion piece in a newspaper rather than a solid evidence backed source. Furthermore the link between his source and his claim is tenuous. He claims B'Tselem is 'false' while the article seems to represent them as accurate but not taking into account the big pictur
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