The Instigator
lei_feng
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
gat22
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

Even if the Judeo-Christian God existed, he would be a horrible god to follow

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
gat22
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 544 times Debate No: 67570
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (4)

 

lei_feng

Pro

In this debate, I will prove to my opponent that, if the Judeo-Christian God exists (he does not), he is a absolutely horrible god, and even dictators such as Stalin and Mao were better than he is. My arguments:

1. He is a psychotic murderer. In the bible alone, God murdered an estimated 25 million people [1]. One could argue that these killings were to "cleanse the earth", or "he killed them because they were evil", however, one only has to look at a single example to realise how ridiculous this premise is. In Exodus 12:29-30 [2], God murders the firstborn child of every Egyptian. The estimated fatality count was placed at 500,000 [1]. How could one possibly call a God who murders 500,000 innocent children "good"?

2. He does nothing to prevent evil. The three traits associated with the Judeo-Christian God are that he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. If God is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful, evil would not exist. The common refutation of this argument is that evil stems from free will, and that God only allows evil to exist because he allows free will to exist. However, this argument completely disregards evil that does not stem from free will. For example, in 2001, a massive earthquake struck Gujarat, India, and resulted in an estimated 20,000 deaths and 166,000 injuries [3]. Why would God allow something this terrible to happen? This surely left thousands of children without parents, thousands of families without homes. Why would a benevolent and all powerful God do such a thing to his own people?

3. By today's standards, god is a terrible criminal. Ask yourself: Is a man who puts a gun to a woman's head and demands her purse a criminal? Most people would respond "Certainly!" to that. Now ask yourself: What does God demand of you? He demands ultimate commitment, to the point of death. He demands complete and total submission to his rules, without exception. He demands worship. And what, might one ask, is the punishment, if these rules aren't followed? Eternal torture and burning in the worst place imaginable. You are threatened with eternal agony if you do not completely sumbit to this insane psychopath.

Sources:

1. http://goo.gl...
2. http://goo.gl...
3. http://goo.gl...

gat22

Con

For something to have an attribute, it must exist. So to continue this debate, we must agree that God does exist, at least based on your premise that He has an attribute.

1. The definition of a murder is: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. The Biblical New Testament (NT) record does not record Jesus Christ [who claims to be God in the flesh] as taking the life of anyone. Therefore, He is not a murderer according to the NT record. Jesus Christ does talk about murderers, but He came that men may have life. "The thief does not come except that he may steal, and kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly" (John 10:10). These are not the words of a murderer, but of someone who values life.

The NT does however give an account of Jesus voluntarily giving His own life so that we can be forgiven of our sin and sin nature. "Even as the Son of man [a title of Jesus] did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many" (Mat 20:28).

2. Your point #2 is a false premise - that evil would not exist if God is good. If you say God is good or evil, then again you are assigning an attribute to His Person; an admission on your part that God does exist. I say that God does exist and that He is good and not evil.

3. Many people called Jesus Christ a criminal. The NT is full of many examples. But here is His take on the matter; He said, 'They who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; they who would destroy me are mighty, my lying enemies; then I restored what I did not take by violence" (Psalm 69:4). Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, yet His intention was to restore what He did not take; in other words, He gave His innocent life on behalf of those who were/are not innocent. This is not the mindset of a murderer or a criminal, but one who gave His life on behalf of murderers and criminals.

Jesus Christ [God in the flesh] spoke these words to a man named Nicodemus, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
Debate Round No. 1
lei_feng

Pro

lei_feng forfeited this round.
gat22

Con

By personal experience, I have found that the Judeo-Christian God is worthy of following. His Name is YHWH, from which comes the Hebrew 'being' verb, the verb of existence.
Debate Round No. 2
lei_feng

Pro

lei_feng forfeited this round.
gat22

Con

Even if someone is God's adversary or enemy, He still loves us. "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life" (Rom 5:10 ESV).

That is not the action or love of a God who is horrible, but One who is worthy to be followed.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
Domr "Please tell me where God is stated to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevloent in the bible."

God knows everything (1 John 3:20). He knows not only the minutest details of our lives but those of everything around us, for He mentions even knowing when a sparrow falls or when we lose a single hair (Matthew 10:29-30). Not only does God know everything that will occur until the end of history itself (Isaiah 46:9-10), but He also knows our very thoughts, even before we speak forth (Psalm 139:4). He knows our hearts from afar; He even saw us in the womb (Psalm 139:1-3, 15-16). Solomon expresses this truth perfectly when he says, "For you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind" (1 Kings 8:39).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 Peter 2:21-24: For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth"; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness" by whose stripes you were healed.

1 John 4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:8: He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

2 Corinthians 13:11-14: Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. ["] The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
Technically, G-d isn't fully omnipotent as he cannot lie. (Numbers 23:13)
Posted by itsnottoolate 2 years ago
itsnottoolate
You're allowing the devil to influence you, and lead your mind to see God only in this way...people who see the truth, see all the reasons for everything God has done...cross over and see for yourself, the beauty and peace of God...I'd like to address your issues...1)God created and so He can destroy...and pharaoh was killing babies long before God did, and He did that as a last resort, after giving pharaoh many chances to let His people go...2)God is allowing the earth to proceed without intervention, regardless of evil, natural disasters, etc...He is not doing it...3)God is offering eternal life in paradise, in exchange for a commitment to Him...if we can be good for 70-80 years, we will be rewarded...in conclusion, God has created the earth and has been trying again and again to give His people a paradise...He has opened the door for everyone through Jesus the Christ...He has sown seeds on the earth, and when He's ready, He will rid the earth of weeds, and harvest His flowers...which will you be?
Posted by itsnottoolate 2 years ago
itsnottoolate
You're allowing the devil to influence you, and lead your mind to see God only in this way...people who see the truth, see all the reasons for everything God has done...cross over and see for yourself, the beauty and peace of God...
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
Please tell me where God is stated to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevloent in the bible.

Also, "eternal torture" only happens if you don't BELIEVE in him. The worst murderers in World history, if they believed in the Savior, they went to heaven.

But cute debate topic.
Posted by donald.keller 2 years ago
donald.keller
Why do people still think number 2 matters? God doesn't prevent evil? Of course not. He gives people the right to choice to be good or evil. To take that away would be the true evil. God let's evil exist for the same reasons Governments let people drink and smoke.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
lei_fenggat22Tied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's unrebutted counter-arguments means that he/she wins arguments. Conduct to Con for Pro's round forfeits. Pro's sources are good enough to win source points, and he/she wins them because Con provided none, too.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
lei_fenggat22Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
lei_fenggat22Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: forfeiting, What a shame! I believe that the Christian god is horrid and unjust for what he did/does/will do . Jesus may not have killed wile he was on earth but god has, and therefore Jesus (who is god) has. Sacrificing yourself for others crimes condones their crimes and is not justice, or good. Con had a weak argument, a pity it was not refuted.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
lei_fenggat22Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con. Pro didn't offer any rebuttals, so arguments to Con.