The Instigator
Freshiequest
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
holyyakker
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

Everquest is the Most Revolutionary MMORPG of All Time

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
holyyakker
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/3/2008 Category: Technology
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,672 times Debate No: 5627
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

Freshiequest

Pro

I'm re-posting this debate because the first person who accepted it has basically conceded the debate.

Since it's launch in April of 1999 the online computer game Everquest has captivated the minds of millions of players worldwide and revolutionized the MMORPG industry.

Before Everquest there wasn't a single game out there that allowed a player to interactively explore a 3D world along with thousands of other players simultaneously. The MMORPG's that did exist only allowed a player to explore a 2D world and had nowhere near the content that Everquest did.

Today, most of the major MMORPG's employ some of the same features that Everquest introduced to the gaming world.

These features include, but are not limited to the following:
-3D Character Modeling
-First person viewing capabilities
-Interactive NPC's with advanced AI
-Complex economic systems
-Advanced Tradeskill Platforms
-Mobs requiring massive raiding parties

Without Everquest, the MMORPG's of today would be nowhere near as sophisticated as they now are.
holyyakker

Con

For clarity of this debate a definition:
MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game
MUSH - Multi User Shared Habitation
MUD - Multi User Dungeon

My opponent contents that EverQuest is truly revolutionary to the MMORPG market. However this claim is over inflated. The majority of what EverQuest did was blend elements of a much larger movement of MUDs and MUSHes with more advanced computer graphics found in first person shooters such as Halflife, Quake, Duke Nukem and Doom. While this was an advancement for MUDs that made the genre of online roleplaying more accessible to a graphic based audience it did not really change the nature of the game.

In a MUD as in Everquest you received quests from non-player characters, you would then complete these quests and gain experience and items for both the monsters you killed (called MOBs from the days of MUDs where MOB was short for MOBILE) and as you increased in level you trained skills and professions in order to make your character more powerful. In fact, compared to some of the available MUDs that are still active EverQuest was very limited in scope.

On MUD in particular that is far more advanced that EverQuest in terms of everything except graphics is Achaea. Achaea (http://www.achaea.com...) boasts over 40 different skill sets each with unique abilities and spells, an indepth fighting system that requires direct player interaction a model that is comparable only to Age of Conan in the MMORPG realm. Player elections where actual players can rise to positions of importance and true power within the world setting, player created content such as houses, 12 playable races, 17 included player vs. player games, 15 playable classes, and many more features than EverQuest really had.

EverQuest took it and the ideas of MUDs and placed them in a 3D environment, but that alone doesn't merit the title of most revolutionary.

Now, on the other hand, World of Warcraft has several features that makes it far more revolutionary than EverQuest. One glaring example is the creation of instanced dungeons. What this means is that at the same time 100 different groups can enter the 'same' dungeon but each group is placed into their own copy of that dungeon. This has huge ramifications on gameplay and is something not even accomplished in the most advanced MUDs. This eliminated the need for the practice of spawn camping, a problem in MUDs that was further increased in EverQuest where there were far more people on any particular server. By instancing their dungeons World of Warcraft was able to create fantastic dungeon events that each player could view on their own without having to worry about kill stealing or outside interference. This is truly revolutionary as no other game before had tried a similar tactic and since it has been done by Blizzard it has been adopted by many other MMORPGs with Age of Conan going as far as even creating a single player adventure at the beginning of the game to function as a tutorial, the ultimate in instance play.

Several other features of World of Warcraft, the implementation of an honor system for world PvP and the inclusion of arena play and PvP Battlegrounds are all revolutionary showing that World of Warcraft is not one to simply rest on their past accomplishments. Their dedication to constant innovation and refinement make them at least as revolutionary as EverQuest.
Debate Round No. 1
Freshiequest

Pro

Due to real life issues I need to make this round short and sweet. It's currently 2am and I need to be up in 6 hours for class...Thank you for taking this debate.

1. True, Everquest did blend elements of a much larger movement of MUDs and MUSHes with more advanced computer graphics. This fact alone is what makes Everquest so revolutionary. Everquest was the first game to blend the advanced elements of text based MMORPG's with 3D graphics. The changes Everquest brought to the online world are revolutionary because they changed the way MMORPG's are now played. Everquest did start a revolution, a revolution of advanced, graphically advanced MMORPG's. Everquest was the catalyst that led to the newer and extremely popular MMORPG's of today such as WOW and Everquest 2.

2. The so called "revolutionary" features of WoW would not exist without the introduction of Everquest. WoW was developed off the revolution and popularity of Everquest. WoW is a great game that gives users great content, but it is only here because of Everquest. This fact again makes Everquest revolutionary.

3. My opponent mentions some features that WoW has brought the online gaming world, most notably instanced dungeons. First of all, Everquest came out with instanced dungeons over a year before WoW was released with its Lost Dungeons of Norrath Expansion. This expansion was released in September of 2003 whereas WoW was released in November of 2004. Furthermore, the idea of instanced dungeons was actually developed in the 1990's in order to solve the "mob" problem in Ultima Online.

http://pc.ign.com...
http://www.gamershell.com...

The facts above are evidence enough that Everquest is the Most Revolutionary MMORPG of All Time.
holyyakker

Con

My opponent started with a list of reasons that EverQuest was the most advanced MMORPG ever. The reasons he provided were as follows.

-3D Character Modeling
-First person viewing capabilities
-Interactive NPC's with advanced AI
-Complex economic systems
-Advanced Tradeskill Platforms
-Mobs requiring massive raiding parties

As I have already pointed out almost all of these arguments are invalid. Several other precursors to Everquest contained features such as "Advanced Tradeskill Platforms", "Complex economic systems", and "Interactive NPC's with advanced AI", in fact in online MUSHes and MUDs you would often have large monsters requiring massive raiding parties. One such MUD on which I regularly played was Afterlife where occasionally the Tarrasque would awaken and players would have to band together in order to kill the beast. So that leaves us with these two arguments:

-3D Character Modeling
-First person viewing capabilities

These arguments don't strike me as particularly revolutionary. Other online games had already pioneered advanced graphics for MMORPGs, a short list includes Ultima Online, The Shadow of Yserbius, and NEXUS. Other games also released had 3D Character Modeling, though often in the realm of first person shooters such as Quake, Doom, Duke Nukem, and others I have previously mentioned. So is EverQuest's only claim to fame that it synthesized two existing game genres into one? That seems like a very week legacy.

While my opponent responded to my argument that instanced dungeons was a revolution of WoW, and they are, because while there were precursors and while EverQuest adopted the model for their expansion World of Warcraft was one of the first games to include instancing on such a wide spread basis. But if my opponent wants to expand to include expansions I can list off other ways that World of Warcraft and other games have continued to show more innovation and revolution than Everquest.

In the first expansion of World of Warcraft the player world became 100% open through flight. Also with World Zone PvP objective players now had set goals to compete for in the actual world. This notion was picked up by Warhammer, and in a truly revolutionary way players can now reshape the world by over running and occupying foreign cities.
So my opponent will offer up one last argument, that EverQuest was first, and thereby the most revolutionary. Clearly I've already demonstrated the EverQuest is not the first MMORPG, thus invalidating this argument even if it were true, but it is not. Simply because something is a predecessor of another thing does not make it more revolutionary. The plane flown by the Wright Brothers at Kittyhawk was monumental, but it was not the most revolutionary plane ever to exist merely because it
Debate Round No. 2
Freshiequest

Pro

"My opponent started with a list of reasons that EverQuest was the most advanced MMORPG ever."

- FALSE, If you read my previous arguments you will see that I never made that statement. My original and re-occuring statement is that "Everquest is the Most Revolutionary MMORPG of All Time". The reasons I listed were evidence that Everquest is the most revolutionary, NOT the most advanced MMORPG of all time. Given this fact, your argument is Null and Void. The fact that you are talking about the advanced features of Everquest and not the revolution, change, it created shows that you do not understand the argument. There are other games that are much more advanced than Everquest, yes, but there are no games that are more revolutionary than Everquest.

In conclusion, Everquest is the most revolutionary MMORPG of All Time. Revolutionary because it was the first game to incorporate the great features of existing games (MUDS, Mushes, First Person Shooters, etc) into one interactive world. Revolutionary because it created the interactive online game following that exists today. Revolutionary because without Everquest, games like WoW, Final Fantasy Online, and Warhammer would not exist in the capability they do today.

Dictionary.com defines "revolution" as: "a sudden, complete or marked change in something". Everquest sparked the change you see today. To deny that fact is ignorance. Everquest is and will always be the most revolutionary MMORPG of all time.

Thank you for this debate. I enjoyed it immensely.
holyyakker

Con

A slip of the fingers does not invalidate an argument. EverQuest is neither advanced nor revolutionary. By my opponent's own definition a revolution must be "a sudden, complete or marked change in something." EverQuest in no ways fits these descriptions. The graphics used in EverQuest had been present in other first person shooters and even in stand alone personal role playing games before EverQuest was conceived. The style of multi-player online roleplaying was already present in a number of tile graphic games and in a rich and complex text based medium. The simple combination of these two elements without any other advancements or new ideas is not a revolution.

Again, my opponent constantly confuses the terms revolution with innovation. EverQuest was an innovative game, for it combined several different elements existent in other genres to create a brand new genre. But that does not make it revolutionary. A revolutionary game must be one that brings about "a sudden, complete or marked change in something". Warhammer is again a far better example. The idea that the game world can be completely reshaped through player interactions is completely new and creates a markedly different playstyle and game. World of Warcraft also had some revolutionary elements, their inclusion of flying which completely changed the notion of travel and interaction with the world. GuildWar's could be considered revolutionary as well, as their business model was a complete change from the status quo set by EverQuest.

The above are all examples of revolution that moves beyond simple innovation. While I in no way diminish the effect that EverQuest had on creating a larger Western market for MMORPGs, that in and of itself is not a revolution. And that is all that my opponent has been arguing for much of this debate. Whether or not you are a fan of MMORPGs in general or EverQuest in specific it is wrong to hold EverQuest up as "most revolutionary" given the other revolutions of equal or greater magnitude that have taken place since its release.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by holyyakker 8 years ago
holyyakker
Im_always_right - lets consider that this debate was about EQ, not EQ 2. Secondly I know from experience that WoW draws a diverse audience in terms of age groups - my friends and I (all closer to 30 than to 20) enjoy the game and within our guild there are several members within their 30's from all walks of life.

As far as the graphics being 'better' I would say they are more robust but they are only really better if you prefer that style of graphics. The system requirements for WoW scale much better than EQ so more people are able to play and enjoy the game, but on the highest settings both look rather gorgeous, albeit they have two very different artistic visions.
Posted by bexy_kelly 8 years ago
bexy_kelly
Hmm. Maybe I'll try it out then. But still, I think I'de still prefer WoW, as a few of my friends PLAY IT (and no, I did not meet them through it xD). I guess you could be right, Im_always_right. But then, you may be disproven and you'll have to change that beautiful fact to Im_not_always_right

:P
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
WOW has worse graphics, and is mostly run by kids (no offense, of course I am only 14...)
so about 3:00 everyday major lag.

Plus WTF is the deal with sheeping people?

In everquest you get people from (maybe younger) 11 to like 64.

The graphics are better, and the attacks are more mature.

No offense, but EQ2 will always be better than WoW
Posted by bexy_kelly 8 years ago
bexy_kelly
WoW is waayyyy better. I'm sorry, but WoW has those beautiful vain, poncy bloodelfs.
For da horde ;)
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
True, EQ2 is the only one I have ever played though. Not very high, but can't play down here it wont work on our comps. So I can only play in summer, for the past 2 years.

I would like to play EQ1 sometime though.
Posted by holyyakker 8 years ago
holyyakker
EverQuest 2 /= EverQuest
The debate states that EverQuest (released in 1999) is the most revolutionary MMORPG of more time. If EverQuest 2 is more revolutionary the instigator has a huge problem. :)
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
LOL, WOW seriously can't compete though...
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
HOW DARE YOU!!!! WOW, is sooo not better!!! EQ has better graphics a better storyline, and more customizable characters!!!

I don't blame you you haven't played them, but for anyone out there if you play WOW start playing EQ2, it is sooo better.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
I heard World of Warcraft was better. Pity I don't have the time for such games.
Posted by Im_always_right 8 years ago
Im_always_right
LOL, I love that game, but I may have to take this up...
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by DisneyFTW 8 years ago
DisneyFTW
FreshiequestholyyakkerTied
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Vote Placed by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
FreshiequestholyyakkerTied
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Vote Placed by holyyakker 8 years ago
holyyakker
FreshiequestholyyakkerTied
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Total points awarded:07