The Instigator
Contra
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
TUF
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Everything a Person Does Is Influenced By Society

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
TUF
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/1/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 28,894 times Debate No: 21646
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (6)

 

Contra

Pro

Society: An enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another

Person: An individual human being

Influenced: To have an effect on the condition or development of

This is a LD debate.
TUF

Con

I accept my opponents definitions and highly look forward to round one of MIG's debate tournament.

Good luck to my opponent, and I hope my audience enjoys this debate. :)
Debate Round No. 1
Contra

Pro

I affirm the resolution that Everything a Person Does is Influenced by Society.

To do means to perform an action.

Society is a group of people, of varying size and structure.

Action is the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim.

Influence means to have the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.

Interaction means reciprocal action or influence.

Evolution is a gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

I'll begin by stating the resolution then by explaining some justifications. Everything that we as people do; either as a group or as an individual, those actions are determined or influenced by the interactions with others. [1] The groups from which these interactions come from can be as small as a family or as large as American society or larger. Sociology is the study of structure and development of human society, and the interactions within it.

Some of these actions are caused by the direct interactions, or by the influence of past interactions.

People are influenced by society if they interact with society on a daily basis, or if they are loners who live in an isolated wilderness. Either way, society influences what we do in some degree, may that influence be either conscious or unconsciously known to us.

I list three domains that support the resolution which I hold to be true.

C1: Thinking

One does not think fully isolated from others. Although one may think away, the thoughts themselves are influenced by society. The thoughts are a construction of society. Also, the ability to think comes from the genes that were passed on from our parents, which is a group that can count as a society by the smallest means.

C2: Physical Actions

We have learned to do a particular action from society. We are influenced in the actions that we do by social norms, or by the circumstances that society has allowed us to participate in. The tools we get are also determined by society. We live in our lives as part of a group in which we learn how to perform an action. We also learn from society how to do some actions such as how to walk, run, etc.

C3: Unconscious Actions

Some unconscious actions, such as our emotions, are determined with our interactions with others. [2] Others, such as sleeping, is determined by where we can sleep, on what, when, and how is determined by society's interactions with us. Even if we woke up, fully unclothed, in a forest, unaware how we got there, society has made it the cultural norm to sleep at night, and wake up and be aware during the day. You cannot change this, and it is nearly impossible to fully adjust because it goes off our circadian clock which we have used every day of our lives.

Our consciousness itself is also a structure that is caused by the interaction of society. Our experiences, either current or past, are constructed mental models, an mostly effective simulation of reality. Our consciousness is dependent on our present purposes. [3]

The only action that may not be (although frequently is aggraved by society) caused by society is our primitive reflexes. However, these reflexes are a product of evolution, and evolution is determined with our relationships with society and the environment. For the purpose of this debate, involuntary reflexes such as are listed in link 3, and we will leave these types of reflexes out of the definition of an action for this debate. Other reflexes, such as sleeping, are influenced by society.

Sources:

[1] http://www.allpsychologycareers.com...

[2] http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...

TUF

Con

====FRAMEWORK====

First I will be countering my opponents arguments, before proceeding on to my own.

Given the theme/topic of this debate is philosophical, I ask that both the debaters refrain from using semantics as much as possible.

I also ask that given this is a more prestigious debate, that a forfeit concludes a loss for the debater who misses the round.

Let's be friendly, cordial, yet aggressive, and treat this debate no differently as it was a live tournament debate.

To start I will give my Rebuttals to the Pro's opening Case, Then proceed to making my own case.

Also some people like to cite their sources at the bottom of the debate, I will not be doing that in my cases. I find that it is easier to keep track of an argument without having to constantly scroll to the bottom, to view the source right next to the argument.

(Also please note, me and my opponent agreed on doing this debate normally rather than LD style, so please dis-regard the the spot about this being an LD debate. We will still be sticking as closely as possible to the framework, of an LD debate, however.)

====NEGATIVE REBUTTALS====

C1: Thinking


"One does not think fully isolated from others. Although one may think away, the thoughts themselves are influenced by society. The thoughts are a construction of society. Also, the ability to think comes from the genes that were passed on from our parents, which is a group that can count as a society by the smallest means."

I will argue this contention with the "Nature Vs. Nurture argument",by the English Victorian polymath Francis Galton.
The book talks about the influential differences of environmental and hereditary distortion for human beings.
Philosopher John Locke, was one of the first to propose that humans develop from environmental influences.

http://books.google.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Now let me explain the difference between how human conception differs between environmental influences and societal influences.

I have agreed to my opponents definition of Society.

Society: An enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another.

Comparing this to Environment.

Environment: the aggregate of surrounding things, conditions, or influences; surroundings; milieu.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

The main differences between the two influences are:

1. Environmental influences deal explicitly around the argument of natural surroundings.

2. Societal influences, as implied, and inferred by my opponents definition, deal with human understanding, and conception of their surrounding social members, and the influences they personally have on the human in mind.

So is the human brain really developed based on the thought processes of other human beings? No, I contest that human interpretation is brought upon by more natural means, IE environment, and instincts.

More on instincts later.

Humans are independent in thought, action, and emotion from their kin, and the behavioral patterns that each human contain that are different from each other, lie heavily in the aspect of environmental influences.

Another great book to reference this would be "On the Origin of Species", by Charles Darwin.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

C2: Physical Actions
"We have learned to do a particular action from society. We are influenced in the actions that we do by social norms, or by the circumstances that society has allowed us to participate in. The tools we get are also determined by society. We live in our lives as part of a group in which we learn how to perform an action. We also learn from society how to do some actions such as how to walk, run, etc."

I contest that this argument is fallible, strictly due to the fact that most movements, and basic neccesary actions can be learned naturally apart from societal impact.
It is impossible to say that that EVERY human action was not learned or influences by another human being, but we can safely assume without the presence of human life, most basic actions are learned independently.
Again, I will give more on this in my contention later, However, instinctually, all humans from different societies knew the same neccesary actions before learning of the other cultures and societies.

Studies can be found here:
http://www-personal.umich.edu...

C3: Unconscious Actions
Others, such as sleeping, is determined by where we can sleep, on what, when, and how is determined by society's interactions with us. Even if we woke up, fully unclothed, in a forest, unaware how we got there, society has made it the cultural norm to sleep at night, and wake up and be aware during the day.

Not neccesarily. This whole argument is un-founded for a few reasons.
Most human behavior is developed naturally. If a humans wakes up in the middle of the forrest with no memory of literally anything, and was awaking as if he were just born we can assume he would assume most of human like qualities, based on the fact that he is human.
Why would a human choose to sleep at night?

1. Human sight is limited in the night, thus potential predators would be likely at an advantage to hunt at night. A human would have no reason to not be more active in the day time, as a humans abilities are more comprehensible to the day time, mainly due to the factor of sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

2. During the night, the human will be dis-advantage due to being a mammal. Being a warm-blooded creature, A human must take shelter and find warmth through his own means in order to survive. Traveling and being active in the daylight will be more productive because of warmth.
http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu...

====NEGATIVE CONSTRUCTIVE====
I am going to limit my contentions to brief descriptions, to due remaining characters issues.

C1: Natural instinct

As briefly described in an argument on my opponents case, Natural instinct is the major argument on how human actions are learned.
I cited how different cultures and nations before even recognizing each others existences, had similar human actions and reactions. This is so even though societal boundaries differ so much from each other. Humans while gaining some societal impacts, gain most naturally and instinctually.

C2: The Scientific approach

In the "scientific approach" area in the link below, we can see several places where Psychologists such as Donald Hebb Source biological and psychological evidence on how behavior is influenced naturally, and is only influenced by society slightly. This contention is used to support contention 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

====CONCLUSION====

I am officially just about out of characters, so I won't be able to run anymore contentions, however I contain that through the use of scientific and natural means I have successfully proven that behavior, and actions are not produced through the means of pure societal methods. While society has en ever impending impact on a lot of humans actions, A human would learn most of the neccesary actions that me and you use today, by himself upon being naturally convicted to do so.

More so human emotions compare similarly to each to one another in different societies, and cultures, with no knowledge of the other. That alone is proof of human societals differences not individually pushing human actions a certain way.

I have countered my opponents arguments successfully, and eagerly await await his rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 2
Contra

Pro


Thanks TUF.


---------------Rebuttals---------------


"Humans are independent in thought, action, and emotion from their kin, and the behavioral patterns that each human contain that are different from each other, lie heavily in the aspect of environmental influences."


This is true. However, societies strongly influence the environment. Aside from automatic brain functions, society impacts all we do, even in the slightest amount. The resolution is that society influences everything we do, and influence means to have a degree of effect on a behavior, development, capacity, etc.


Humans are social creatures. This is widely accepted. However, the meaning of this means that we tend to live around with others and interact with other people. People, in the form of society, will have an influence on your behavior.


This has been confirmed in a series of studies, called the Asch Conformity Experiments.


---------------Society Influences Decisions and Actions---------------


The results of the Asch experiments support the resolution. In these experiments, there is basically one "real participant", because all the others know of the intentions of the experiment, and are referred to as "confederates". A small "society", which can be as small as only 2 confederates in this case, had a slight influence on the participant's behavior. With more confederates, their influence over the participant grew. The consensus here is that society, even in small amounts, effects the decisions and therefore the actions of the individual. This proves my position, that a society, even a very small one, influences a person's behavior and actions.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


In psychology, it has been concluded that people have two psychological needs that makes people confirm to the expectations of others. You said that we are independent in thought and action, but it appears that we are connected more than it seems! The reasons we confirm to the expectations of others is for our need to be liked or to be right. So, even unconsciously, society is influencing us to confirm to others, which influences our actions. We need to confirm to others, and with this need, our actions passively are trying to achieve this need.


Deutsch, M. & Gerard, H. B. (1955). A study of normative and informational social influences upon individual judgment. Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,51, 629-636.



--------------- Learning From Society >> Influences Actions --------------


'However, instinctually, all humans from different societies knew the same neccesary actions before learning of the other cultures and societies."


This is true as well. However, a society can be very small, for example, a community. However, we learn from society. For example, language. We learn vocabulary from hearing it from others as soon as we are born. Without these experiences, we shouldn't be able to talk. Since we learned to do things from society, be it America or a family, society has influenced our actions, at least passively.


Time: Your Brain. Magazine, January 2012. "Language and the Baby Brain," by Jeffrey Kluger.


Why would a human choose to sleep at night?


Humanity has naturally slept at night for as long as we know. However, jet-lag disorders, night-shift hours, and other societal influences effect this. Sleep is a natural, automatic brain function, so this action should be mostly discarded as we are both correct here.


Sleep: The Mysteries, The Problems, and the Solutions. By Carlos Schenck. 2007. "Circadian Rhythm, Light-Day cycles." p. 26


In the "scientific approach" area in the link below, we can see several places where Psychologists such as Donald Hebb Source biological and psychological evidence on how behavior is influenced naturally, and is only influenced by society slightly.


Automatic brain functions can be altered by society. Nevertheless, you said that society influences behaviors slightly, and I have proved that this varies on the size of society and other factors.


Conclusion:


Society influences our actions, the only exception that is possible being automatic brain functions (such as primitive reflexes). However, our everyday actions are influenced by our need to confirm to others to be right or to be liked. Even if we are unaware of this, our actions carry out this need while acting.


Also, societies effect one's behavior and actions, according to size. Being social creatures, society plays a huge role, or at least a slight role in our behaviors. We also learn much of what we know how to do from society. I have upheld the resolution, and look forward to my opponent's response.


TUF

Con


Thankyou for the fantastic response.

=======REBUTTALS ========

1st: I would like to point out that my opponent agrees on with me that societies from different cultures pick up on the same things (actions) that were completely unknown to each other. So how can a specific action be influenced by societies, if humans on the total opposite side of the world learned their actions naturally, thus conforming into a society?

Natural instinct has influenced humans to form societies, thus the resolution is succesfully dis-proven.


The Asch Conformity Experiments

My opponent provides that the asch conformity experiment suggest that humans are in fact influenced by society. To this, I agree. Humans are extremely succeptable to being influenced by one other. However is this a sufficient enough argument to prove that ALL human actions are performed as a direct results of a society? I think not. This just proves that there are alot of people who are easily manipulated by their peers. However there are PLENTY of examples to prove that every action done is not influenced by society.
When we rebelled against the british and caused the revolutionary war, we broke off the chain of influence of society, and conformed a new society. So again, it is impossible for this argument to prove all actions are influenced by society.


Psychology argument
"You said that we are independent in thought and action, but it appears that we are connected more than it seems! The reasons we confirm to the expectations of others is for our need to be liked or to be right"


The argument here is a contradiction however. I agree there is a need to be right, and there is also a need to be liked.
Humans will naturally choose between the two instincts and react on one of them.
Take GodSands, inferno, and izbo for example. None of these folks cared about being liked, and will always be supportive of their opinions, no matter the horde of people who oppose them and their beliefs. So while some people do choose to be influenced by society, there is a vast plethora of people who don't care, and will follow their own repective beliefs.

Learned actions from society

"For example, language. We learn vocabulary from hearing it from others as soon as we are born."

This is actually a very interesting point and I am glad you brought this up. How was it that when columbus traveled to the americas, the natives he meant happened to have their own language? Also how is it that are over 6700 recognized languages in the world?
http://wiki.answers.com...
This proves that humans naturally and instintively develop speech as a way of communication. We can assume based on this fact that if a human were to grow up independent of a society, that they would more than likely learn a language of their own.


Lastly:
"you said that society influences behaviors slightly, and I have proved that this varies on the size of society and other factors."

So I have succesfully accomplished my side of the debate in proving that that all actions are not influenced by society. Even depending on size and "other factors" my opponent still admits that society doesn't neccesarily influence all actions. This means that the resolution has succesfully been negated.


========MY CASE==========

Now I would like to go over and re-strengthen some of the points that I ran out of characters on, and wasn't able to efficiently expand upon.


C1: Natural Instinct

As has been proved several times, humans have developed basically every single action that know based on their own influences. For this argument, I would like to focus on what a society is, and how exactly is it formed. A society as my opponent has defined, is a "cooperating social group". How are the cooperating social groups formed? Let's deduce here how exactly someone can form a society. At the head of every society, is a leader, or someone who originally defines what is accepted by a society. Let's go back to the revolutionary war idea. After winning the revolutionary war, George washington formed Ideals that were agreed and signed up in the "declaration of Independence". This society was conformed of a man who had an idea. This idea, then turned into an action. This action was the agreed with upon by many other people. So how George washington's Ideas influenced by a society? No. But they succesfully formed a society. So while Society definitely does influence all human beings, all human beings definitely influence a society. Which leads me to another sub point.


http://www.mesacc.edu...;

Sub Point A: A person influences everything a society does.
Our societies and laws are always changing. So contrary to the resolution, do we in fact influence a society? We here in america, are always ammending laws, changing religious beliefs, and debating with ourselves with "what is moral". Given that Society always changes due to different beliefs, we as humans Have a tremendous effect on society. Riots, rebellion, voting, politics, it is all constantly changing.
We as humans have always influenced society, and will continue to influence our society forever. That is how things are, and always will be.

C2: The scientific Approach

Next we have to see the logic in the scientific aspect of human evolution and the skills and abilities we learn through the natural process.

Humans are hard wired to survive and commit actions natural to they're survival just as any mammal.
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com...;

No matter how much society influences its participants, participants have always influenced their own actions through the use of their instincts of survival. Eating food, bowel movements, and breathing, are all actions that can be in no way influenced by society, because scientifically humans need to do these things to survive.


======Conclusion======

I feel that I have succesfully disproven the resolution.

1. My opponent agrees with me on several points that Not every single action is influenced by society.

2. Natural instincts are not influenced by society.

3. Scientifically I have proved that humans must perform actions to survive, thus society has not influenced these actions.

4. I have proved that People influence society.

Thankyou for reading, and I look forward to hearing from my opponent!
Good luck!
Debate Round No. 3
Contra

Pro

--------------------Rebuttals----------------------

"how can a specific action be influenced by
societies, if humans on the total opposite side of the world learned their
actions naturally, thus conforming into a society?"

Definition of Society:

I said in R2 that society is a group of people, of varying size and structure.

Natural Actions - Still Influenced:

I said that "all actions are influenced by society" besides automatic brain functions and primitive reflexes. Society is a term that can be broadly applied. Society can mean humanityitself. Or, society can mean my
community that only consists of a few thousand people. Usually society is applied to areas with
similar cultural-social distinctions.

An action may be learned naturally, but it is still influenced by society. Your example of an action
that is learned naturally was speaking. However, your society influences what language you will speak, how you say it (accent or lack of), and how you apply it (social norms).

Conformity Rebuttals:

"Is this a sufficient enough argument to prove
that ALL human actions are performed as a direct results of a society?"

So you agree that humans are susceptible to the influence of society. However, that doesn't mean that ALL human actions are performed as a direct result of society, although it strongly leans that way. For example, society influences me to go to school tomorrow strongly, but this doesn't mean I will go. However, society is strongly influencing me to go nonetheless.

"When we rebelled against the british and caused the revolutionary war, we broke off the chain of influence of society, and conformed a new society."

The colonists were their own society away from the British. Even
so, when we fought the British, our motives were influenced by society because society had hurt us
(taxation without representation).

Psychology:

About the DDO memebers such as Inferno, their motives are still influenced by society (in this case,
DDO). They are influenced by society who comments on their posts, and like the attention. Society influences them to stay on DDO because of the fun experience and their ability to communicate their unpopular
ideas.

I already proved how other actions were influenced by society.

Language:

If humans learn languagenaturally, that doesn't mean it IS NOT influenced by society. The action of speaking a language is still influenced by society.

"if a human were to grow up independent of a society, that they would more than likely
learn a language of their own."

Humans may have orignial ideas, but through our experiences, our neurons watch what others are doing,
and mime it themselves. This is one common way how we learn. Other neurons, called mirror neurons, are involved in many actions as well as learning. They set up connections when an experience has a certain reflection from themselves. If I see a guy yawn, my mirror neurons take in the sensory
information, and an impulse is expressed by these neurons, and my mind mimics and/or remembers this impulse, and I am likely to yawn as well. Another example is when a baby smiles, the mother smiles too.

More important yet, researchers think that mirror neurons are a key way on how humans learn speech,
signaling meaning to others and developing primal feelings of empathy. Through empathy, we can understand each other, another connection with actions and society. Neuroscientist Christian Keysers, with other colleagues of his who conducted the glove-brushing study, said:

"When you watch a movie, you don't think to yourself, now the hero is smiling, so he must be happy. Through the mirror [neuron] system, you just know it."

Thus, what we see of others in our society, regardless of size, we understand others through empathy. We learn because of other humans with our mirror neurons and other neurological systems through experience, and by a
lesser extent our automatic brain functions, which are still influenced by society.

Time: Your
Brain. Magazine, January 2012. "The Gift of Mimicry," by J. Madelelne
Nash.

We Influence Society:

We do influence society. However, then society is changed, and still affects us in other ways. If we did
influence society (example: Amend Constitution to add Balanced Budget Amendment), society influenced us in the first place to make us want to influence society. In the example I put, we were influenced by society (high deficits), and thus we responded. So the interaction between society and individual goes both ways. I upheld the resolution.

The Scientific Approach:

You said that humans have basic instincts that are in no way influenced by society. This is not really true. It is true that we need to do those actions such as feeding to survive, but society still has a verystrong influence on our basic instincts.
You said feeding:

With feeding, society makes a price on goods. Therefore, we decide while being strongly influenced by society's price on goods. If the good has been determined healthy by society, we are more likelyto eat it too. See, even passively, society has an influence on what we do.

With bowel movements, the food determines on what is used for nutrients
and what for waste. (The food itself is influenced by society as I said).

For breathing, society has influenced this instict as well. Through the chemicals our
industries and societies have emitted into the atmosphere, the chemical composition of the air has been altered.
So, it is true that society has influenced our breathing.

Consensus: Society influences our basic instincs as well
as all our actions.

"My opponent agrees with me on several
points that Not every single action is influenced by society."

I said the only exceptions were automatic brain functions and primitive reflexes (example: hypnic jerk in sleep right before Stage 2 sleep). I said that influence means to
have the capacity to have an effect on behavior, character, development, etc.

However, you could argue that the genes that were passed on to us were affected by society on how our parents were affected by society. So really, I win here.

Conclusion:

1) We learn from society and our interactions with it.

2) Our most basic instincts are still passively influenced by society.

3) Society influences our behavior when we interact with it because of psychological reasons.

4) Society influences all of our actions, and we affect society itself with our actions. It goes both ways.

5) My opponent hasn't named an example of an action that is isolated from the influence of society.

Thanks for a great debate!

TUF

Con


========REBUTTALS=========

How Actions influence Society

" I said in R2 that society is a group of people, of varying size and structure."

I don't see how this definition has any impact on the argument I made against it. I am talking about human beings that we didn't even know existed on the total opposite spectrum of the planet developed speech the same way as their brothers from far away. We literally developed speech naturally in accordance to creating our own society, and directly influencing that soiciety there in.

Natural actions

"I said that "all actions are influenced by society" besides automatic brain functions and primitive reflexes. Society is a term that can be broadly applied. Society can mean humanityitself. Or, society can mean my
community that only consists of a few thousand people. Usually society is applied to areas with
similar cultural-social distinctions."

If this is really what you are argument, then I will go as far as to say that this is abusive, and a logical fallacy. You are literally giving me nothing to argue with this statement. This argument detracts the ability for me to make any arguement against your case, as it basically says that every argument I have made is impossible to look to. I don't see why automatic brain functions and primitive reflexes should be an exception. You must substantiate your claim that EVERYTHING a person does is influenced by society. The resolution doesn't say "except for the only things you can argue that with".

Conformity

"So you agree that humans are susceptible to the influence of society. However, that doesn't mean that ALL human actions are performed as a direct result of society, although it strongly leans that way."

This is not what you are supposed to be arguing though. You are supposed to prove that EVERY action a person commits is a direct result of society. You are essentially proving my side of the debate by saying what you are saying. It is my job to prove that not all humans conform to a society, and you have just proved that for me. Thankyou.

"The colonists were their own society away from the British. Even
so, when we fought the British, our motives were influenced by society because society had hurt us
(taxation without representation)."

Incorrect. Conforming to society, would mean that we are constantly influences by the ideas and beliefs of the society we live in. This was obviously not the case with the revolutionary war. We brokoe away from society, and formed ourselves a new society. That society was influenced by people, contrary to people being influenced by it.

Psychology

"About the DDO memebers such as Inferno, their motives are still influenced by society (in this case,
DDO). They are influenced by society who comments on their posts, and like the attention. Society influences them to stay on DDO because of the fun experience and their ability to communicate their unpopular
ideas."


This is a logical fallacy. You are assuming that member such as the ones I have pointed on here our influenced by society because of the attention they get. However they are not accepted by the society as participants of the society, nor do they wish to be. Their actions are based off of their own accordance to being actively un-supportive of being in a society. Thus saying that their actions are influenced by society, would be contradictive based on the results.

If humans learn languagenaturally, that doesn't mean it IS NOT influenced by society. The action of speaking a language is still influenced by society.

You provide no base for this claim, thus it is unsubstantiated. Language is formed by people to create and influence society. Without language, a society would not work properly. We humans directly influence society through the use of developing communication methods such as speech and language. This is also a natural instinct as every nation has their own unique language seperate from other nations across the world. The fact that there is so many different languages just proves how humans will always naturally create them.

"Thus, what we see of others in our society, regardless of size, we understand others through empathy. We learn because of other humans with our mirror neurons and other neurological systems through experience, and by a
lesser extent our automatic brain functions, which are still influenced by society."

This argument is irrelevant because it doesn't prove that actions are learned from society, all it basically states is that humans have the capacity of learning. So we can safely assume that most learned actions will be similiar outside of a societal environment as they are inside of one. We will still learn how to communicate, eat, survive, etc. Our learning process is not effected completely by a society.


=======MY CASE=======

We Influence Society


"We do influence society. However, then society is changed, and still affects us in other ways. If we did
influence society (example: Amend Constitution to add Balanced Budget Amendment), society influenced us in the first place to make us want to influence society. In the example I put, we were influenced by society (high deficits), and thus we responded. So the interaction between society and individual goes both ways. I upheld the resolution."

So according to your rebuttal to this argument, you are still saying that I am right. Even if society does influence us back in different ways, we still influence society in a lot more ways than it influences us. Societies are so different from each other in every country. The fact that they differ from each other so intesively, is exclusively due to the fact that the people in them, change them so much. That's why morals are so different and subjective to each individual society.

The Scientific Approach

"With feeding, society makes a price on goods. Therefore, we decide while being strongly influenced by society's price on goods. If the good has been determined healthy by society, we are more likelyto eat it too. See, even passively, society has an influence on what we do. "

This argument is pointless. The fact is even without a society, my point is that humans would still eat. Thus there is no way possible eating can be an action influenced by society.

"With bowel movements, the food determines on what is used for nutrients
and what for waste."

So are you arguing that society influences what we poop?


" For breathing, society has influenced this instict as well. Through the chemicals our
industries and societies have emitted into the atmosphere, the chemical composition of the air has been altered. "

What we breathe in is not what I was saying was influenced. I am talking about the specific act of breathing. We have to do this regaurdless of what society influences us to do, thus this rebuttal is invalid.

"However, you could argue that the genes that were passed on to us were affected by society on how our parents were affected by society. So really, I win here."

No you don't. The genes that our passed on to us aren't decided on thus they are not influenced. The genes we recieve from are parents are purely natural and not synthetic, thus society has made no impact on our genes according to your definition of society.

========Conclusion==========


I have proven that people influence societies rather than societies inlfuencing them. Everything we do as a group in our society is directcly caused by the people themselves in those societies. The fact that there are constantly so many changes in societies, just proves that people will always continue to change the way their society works.

Also that withstanding, natural instinct specifically tells us what actions we must use in order to survive. Aside from being in a society, me must assume most learned actions would be learned instinctually.

It is for all these reasons I strongly urge you to vote in negation to the resolution.

I really hoped you enjoyed round one og MIG's debate tourney, and wish my opponent good luck in the next round.

Thankyou!
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FourTrouble 5 years ago
FourTrouble
Good debate, very close. Pro provides multiple reasons that society must influence everything a person does. Con responds convincingly by arguing that there are biological instincts that occur outside of society. I thought Con's argument that we influence society back was not relevant, as our influencing society in no way implies that society cannot or does not influence our actions. What became apparent in both Con and Pro's case was that a "person" presupposes a society. I think Pro could articulated this point more directly, which would have given Pro's case more force. Either way, Pro is absolutely correct to say that society has an effect even on a person's evolutionary instincts. I voted a tie because I thought both sides provided compelling cases. I agreed with Pro before the debate, and still do after, but I don't think that should be reason for me voting Pro.
Posted by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
That has nothing to do with primitive instincts being influenced by society.
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
"We influence society by introducing a Single-Payer healthcare bill in our state, which is passed.
Society influences us with a healthier population and lower costs as a result."

No.
Posted by Contra 5 years ago
Contra
For example:

We influence society by introducing a Single-Payer healthcare bill in our state, which is passed.
Society influences us with a healthier population and lower costs as a result.
Posted by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
how?
Posted by Contra 5 years ago
Contra
As I said in the debate about society and the individual on what influences what, "It goes both ways."
Posted by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
Contra, you are proving my point with this argument. I am talking about a scenario of an individual being completely removed from society, and how they would respond to sleep patters. Your argument of our natural circasdian clock, just proves that independent of societym we must still sleep at night.

Even given your situation, we influence society such that we shower when we do, and go to bed when we do.
Posted by Contra 5 years ago
Contra
Of course we would still sleep at night - our natural circadian clock in our suprachiasmatic nucleus between and behind our eyes is adapted to our 24-hour day-night cycle. My point is that society influences the approximate timing. For example, society has made you be able to shower every day, so that timing of your shower makes your body temperature fluctuate, and if you shower close to bedtime, you will fall asleep faster because your body temperature is decreasing.
Posted by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
I know that it still CAN be influenced by society, but my main goal in this debate was that not every actions IS influenced by society. By my argument we can safely assume that without societal influences, a human would sleep at night :)
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
Time of sleep can still be influenced by society. If it is natural for a person to go to sleep at time X but he goes to a party and therefore as a result of being influencing by society he goes to sleep at Time X+5.

The definition of "influenced" is very exploitative.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by FourTrouble 5 years ago
FourTrouble
ContraTUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Comments.
Vote Placed by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
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Reasons for voting decision: After re reading the definitions, I must change my vote. I incorrectly thought that the debate centred around whether something is fully influenced by society. As it appears, "influence" was defined as "have an effect." Even though Con successfully proved that the biological instincts were biologically natural, the debate implies everything a person "does." Biology is not something that a person does. Natural instincts, as Pro showed, are at least somewhat influenced by society.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
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Reasons for voting decision: Suppose the resolution "Everything a person does is influenced by the planet Jupiter." In the narrowest technical sense the gravity of Jupiter is pervasive and has some miniscule influence on every atom on earth, so in some sense it is so. Both sides agreed it was a philosophical debate so that "as a practical matter of consequences" is implied. If so then Con's examples of instinctive behavior are compelling.
Vote Placed by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
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Reasons for voting decision: As other voters have said, instinct was not refuted. It's an extremely steep mountain for Pro to climb to prove that instinctual behavior is influenced by society when by definition it basically isn't and he unfortunately couldn't do this. Dont get me wrong, it was still a really good debate and well argued on both sides, regardless of the results.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
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Reasons for voting decision: the instinct argument was never fully refuted by the Pro, along with the natural reflexes argument, as cases that are independent of society... Very interesting debate nonetheless
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
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Reasons for voting decision: I really thought pro would have had an easy win, but con seemed to prove, and prove well, that the majority of things influenced by society where actually instincts. I also liked cons C1 and 2. C1 he proved in the refutations, in 2 he provided evidence that instincts played a larger role then society. As con basically said, anything influenced by society is influenced by instinct first. This, and pro never fully refute it, means con win the debate.