Evolutin or Creation?
Debate Rounds (4)
Here is my argument against Evolution/The Big Bang theory. First, where did all of this matter come from? Was it just randomly there? Also where was the energy required for the explosion? The big bang theory states the mini particle began spinning rapidly. If it spun, every thing it will fling out will spin in the same direction as it. Now, that means that all of the planets SHOULD spin the same way. Then why does Venus rotate the opposite way of earth? Why does Uranus rotate on its side? And why is it that a predicted 8 moons of Jupiter Spin in the opposite direction. Next,Lets say that the earth was created by the big bang theory and new life was about to form. For this new life, they would need to be able to know how to obtain and use energy, keep their systems running, be able to reproduce, and have ALL the information for all of this to occur, no errors in the code of DNA. The Chances of a Cell binding with a DNA (Most complex Molecule in the universe) and being able to survive is 10 to the 39000 power, mathematically speaking, 10 to the 53 power. Lets say all of this happened. There is a very large time scale in between humans and the first cell. Natural selection is the "Powering force" of evolution. But for it to occur it requires the genetic information to be present in the population. The new genetic material would be created from Mutations. Think about this, how many mutations would be required for a population of single-cells to transform into thinking humans? Somehow an eye would evolve, along with a brain, nose, tongue, ears. The number is very plausible for possibilities sake. NOT! We also are able to make our own decisions which is crazy to think it happened randomly. (I would also like to point out that the man who developed Embryology was convicted of fraud by his university because he hand drew the embryos to make them look similar).
For Creation: Time is the deciding factor between Creation and Evolution. Was there time for evolution to occur or do we live on a young earth? Let me share some evidence for a young earth. Scientists use the geologic column to predict when organisms evolved. Each layer, they theorize, are different ages. If only this were true, you see there are petrified trees running through MULTIPLE rock layers, which support the theory that the rock layers were formed quite rapidly during the flood of Noah. Also Scientists use Carbon Dating to prove the earth is over 10000 years old. Too bad it doesnt work. See the sun's rays hit the earth's atmosphere and combine with Nitrogen to form Carbon-14. This carbon-14 has a very short half life of about 5300 years or so. Constantly the sun is creating C-14 and losing it to decay. Eventually there would be a stage of equilibrium reached where no more C-14 would be lost to decay or produced. This was calculated in the 1900s to be about 30000 years for it to reach equilibrium. The c-14 amounts in the atmosphere has increased 28% in the last 30 years. Equilibrium has not been reached. Also the Earth's magnetic field's strength has also been decreasing. Specifically about 6% in the last couple hundred years. If it were to lose strength at the same rate for all of history, it would have been too strong for ANY life to exist 40000 years ago.
Also to support the flood theory as a mini point in this debate closed clams have been found on top of MOUNTAINS supporting a rapid burial because clams open immediately after they die.
This is just a bit of the evidence I have against evolution and for Creationism. Please ask me questions and I will try to answer them the best i can and vice versa.
Case 1: The Lie Called Adam And Eve
The Bible self-destructs with everything science has taught us. The science of forensics disproves Adam and Eve 100 times over. If we are from Adam and Eve, We would practically be cousins with everyone in the world! No. This is scientifically impossible. Instead, forensics states that we are not all related. Adam and Eve also don't explain race. If we are all descendants from Adam and Eve, we would all be one race. Adam and Eve states they have two sons, Kain and Abel, but, WHERE THE HELL ARE THE GIRLS?!???!? They must have had something to repopulate with. It is also said Adam and eve knew how to speak, but even cavemen had no idea of the simplest languages! Wouldn't Adam and Eve have taught their children to speak their language? They also say that Adam and Eve eat from the tree of knowledge, yet, man has never found a tree that give knowledge of everything in the universe! The tree had a fruit, which means it probably had seeds, which would have made other trees similar to it, giving infinite knowledge of everything. They also say that the snake spoke at one time, yet, the snake has no vocal cords! (1) There is also evidence that the Earth is older than 4,000 years. Human footprints believed to be 40,000 years old have actually been older! It is 51,000 years old. (2) This conflicts with the story you gave right? Hell, even a tree shows the Earth is older than 4,000 years! (4) That is all Adam and Eve should be taken as. A story.
Case 2: The Lie Called Noah's Ark
The first and biggest thing that proves Noah's ark never happened is all the animals Noah would have to get! All the animals, from all the countries, from all the continents. Even if Noah could, how could he feed all of those animals for let alone the 40 days and 40 nights of rain?!?! Not to mention all he time it took all the water to evaporate. The next biggest thing is Noah was 500 years old when he started building the ark, and 600 when he finished. This is bull! In the time, a Egyptian was considered ancient at age 60. Think, that is 440 year younger than when Noah started building the ark, and 540 years when Noah was done with the ark! Also, how could the boat float with all the pounds of all the species of elephants and all the other animals. There work back then wasn't really good. Also, how could they keep all the animals from eating each other? They also say that the only humans on the ark were Noah and his family which means we are all descendants of Noah. Again forensics disproves this! By the way, the oldest living clam is 400. This means, that clam is either 4,400 years old. Right, and I am the president of Switzerland. (3)
Next round will be my argument for evolution, but I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. You got that one right. The Catholic form of evolution is Theistic Evolution.
Let me first denounce your so called "Lie of Adam and Eve"
We are technically related to everyone in the world if we came from Adam and Eve, and it would have only taken about 8 generations from them so we would not marry with a direct relative (ex. Cousin, Brother, Uncle). The theory of evolution states that all life forms are related to each other, like dogs and bananas. Whats worse being related to every human or every life form? So it is NOT scientifically impossible.
Adam and Eve do not explain race... you are correct. They do not explain language either too. What explains race and language is the famous Bible story of the Tower of Babel where God created separate Languages and nations for each individual at the event. http://www.creationtoday.org...
Also both Adam and Eve live to be about 800 years old to produce more offspring as clearly stated in the Bible. They didn't stop at Cain and Able trust me.
Also the bone under your eyebrow never stops growing. So if you were to live to 800 years old then it would be more profound than an 80 year old's, which explains how cavemen did not exist.
Also the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was destroyed with the Garden of Eden in the flood of Noah which is why nobody can find it. It is most likely buried under the sediments tossed onto it during the flood.
When you say the snake spoke, you infer it was the literal snake as we see it today. Satan was the one who spoke through the snake to deceive Eve into sinning. Obviously the snake anatomy has no vocal cords, because it wasn't the actual snake talking, rather Satan.
You say Human footprints have been dated to 51000 years old. The scientists probably used C-14 dating which I obviously stated was not true in my first argument, because it works under 60,000 years they say. This is probably also how they dated the 9000 year old tree as well which proves faulty. The Sahara desert and the Great Barrier Reef are both believed to be about 4000 years old based on studies of their rate of growth. If the earth was billions of years old, why isn't there a bigger coral reef or desert in the world?
If you believe that Adam and Eve should be taken as a story than you need to see a priest my friend.
Now let me denounce your claim "The Lie called Noah's Ark"
Yes there are plenty of Animals he would need to get on his boat, but let me clear things up. He took on his boat two of every kind of animal, not every species. A kind of animal is a broader range than species. For example a Zebra and a Horse can still interbreed making them the same kind of animal. Also I bet Noah was a smart man and only took the Babies of animals on board. So he wouldn't need as much food and they would take up less space.
The water covering the land did not only evaporate, it rapidly sank into the ground causing petrification of some things like trees. The water did evaporate, yes, but it also sank into the ground.
Now let me get to ages. Above the earth before the flood was a Canopy of water which protected the people from UV light which is harmful to us. If they are not exposed to UV light they do not age as quickly. This canopy of water fell to the earth during the flood, which exposed us to UV light and supports why we have a much shorter life span today.
Also Egypt was After the flood not before. Check your info please.
The animals on the Ark were kept in cages, not left in the open.
How exactly does forensics prove we cannot be common ancestors with Noah and his family?
A study of Mitochondrial DNA proves a common ancestor between all humans is 4000-2000 years ago. Which coincidentally is the time of Noah.
(Read the Second Paragraph, says that based on our similarities in Mitochondrial DNA and how it would have been passed on Scientists have predicted a common ancestor 2000-4000 years ago).
Please explain how your point of Forensics is relevant to this and what it proves.
Now here is my stand on evolution.
God can do anything, so if he did it, he did it. The question is how much time is there for it? We both believe in God so we cannot argue the big bang theory or whatever. We can only argue how long we have been here for.
I believe there is no time for evolution.
If you have any proof the earth is older than 6000 years old, please give it to me. My word of Advice is to not use the Geologic Column or Radioactive decay as evidence because i will be able to disprove it. Use something else that shall be new to me (:
Do you believe the Bible at all? If you pick and choose what you think is correct in it based on what is possible TODAY then please start your own branch of Christianity that teaches that. Don't Associate Theistic Evolution as being the main theory CATHOLICS believe. I am a Catholic. I do not believe it.
This is fun! Thank you for accepting my debate. Good Luck rebutting my second argument!
Lie of Adam and Eve Part 2:
You can't expect me to possibly believe in the tower of babel can you? The tower of babel was just another lie. Why isn't the tower standing today? Over the time, wouldn't people begin to understad the other languages? I have hisorical proof that the tower of babel never happened. Not dating, not guessing, but actual historical documents. (1) In the historical documents, it clearly sates that humans already had different races and languages. There you go Mr. smarty pants. There is miro and macro evolution. I believe that God created animals and plants that were our ancestors, and evolved into how we know them today. Not a bannana is like a dog. There is also no way in hell, that Adam and Eve lived to 800! This is scientifically impossible! If they were the exact same as us, without the use of modern medicene, and the max we live to is 125 years. Do you really think the first humans lived to 800? Yeah, and I am a bannana. Also, why aren't we finding the remains of a tree that we have not classified yet when we did? A tree that is one of a kind? Nope. Satan wasn't even banished at that time! You say it is Satan, yet, he is not even in hell yet! Then you let any scientific prof out the window because you an't accept the truth. Trust me. I was like you. Crushed that Adam and Eve never happened. but trust e, you will feel better.
The Lie That Is Noah's Ark Part Two:
This is a rebutal I can easily disprove. There are so many species of dogs, so Noah would have to get every male and female of that species of dog. The rule even would apply to evidence if he wanted to save every species. Really? hat desparate? They were all babies? You forget the babies need their mother's milk, and if they are old enough not to, they will eat so much because they are growing! It sank into the ground? Magically when the rain ended, almost everything sunk into the ground! I wish it worked like that. I thought you were against the date objects. IT SAYS IT IS A RANDOM MATHMATICAL MODEL THAT ASSUMES RANDOM MATING! This means it is probably not accurate! I look forward to your rebuttals.
I thought you said you were going to debate this round for evolution?
Whatever. Ill just disprove you again.
It clearly states in the Bible that the Tower of Babel was destroyed by GOD himself. That is why it is not standing today.
People can't just naturally understand others languages. It takes years to learn it and a lot of dedication to the task. Also after the people couldn't understand each other (The people who were building the tower) they spread out around the globe. They weren't able to live together because they couldn't understand each other. I think it's funny when you consider them naturally learning other languages, which is pretty much impossible unless you had Translations from your language to their's and vice versa. There were none.
Do you really think it is okay to pick and choose what stories you believe from the Bible? That is exactly what Athiest s are trying to do to us today is turn us against our OWN religion. You sir are like Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran Church. He didn't like teachings of the Church so he changed them in his own image. Really, maybe the Tower of Babel didn't happen, but also it might have.
Im going to move back onto our larger issues we have been discussing.
You say that Adam and Eve could not have lived to be 800. I already told you that the canopy of water above the earth protected them from UV light. Also, God chooses when we die. God would not have killed of the first two humans after 50 years. He let them live so that they could reproduce and create the population. The first humans were not exposed to harmful radiation, and they were DEFINITELY needed to start the population. Scientifically TODAY it is impossible, but because our bodies are damaged early on by the sun.
Satan is the serpent of old. Deceiving mankind daily.
I don't let ANY scientific proof out the window. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN GIVEN ME ANY!
You have also completely misinterpreted the meaning of a kind of animal. You saying species made it obvious.
He only needed to bring two dogs on the Ark because those dogs could bring forth the entire dog population. Over the years people have dedicated their lives to making new species of dogs through selective breeding.
When I say babies I implied Not adult. They wouldn't have as much metabolism as a full grown adult but not as much care as a baby. They could eat regular food. And not a whole lot of it.
Who caused the flood? Yes, the answer is God. I'm guessing he was the one who stopped it too. Or is that an illogical assumption? The water more or less didn't "sink" into the ground. It was absorbed. God absorbed the water into the land and also ,yes, he evaporated it too. What i'm saying is that God could have easily gotten rid of the water. You say "Magically" as if it is a fairy tale. You basically just called God out on a lie, which he can never lie.
You say the model is probably not accurate when it includes random mating as a variable. I think that the mathematicians and scientists would NOT have published their work if it was fraudulent and it disproved the whole Theory of Evolution.
Now, here is my challenge for you:
Prove to me the earth is more than 6000 years old.
Prove to me FROM THE BIBLE God used evolution to get us here.
Ask yourself how you can trust Jesus if you don't believe the book of Genesis, which he quoted many times.
This is getting exciting!
Nothing really to rebuttal here. Just a guy on his last stance for the topic. I have historical proof the tower of Babel never happened. The canopy of water above the Earth? Some people think we are idiots to believe that non-sense. God doesn't choose when we die. Then why can doctors defibulate peopl back to life? God chooses who dies? I don't think so. Blame it on the sun. Good tactic, not. Yeah! The dating proof almost everyone else goes by you call fake.
The Lie called Noah's Ark Part 3:
You don't get it. If Noah wanted to bring and save a male and female from every species, he would need to bring them specifically. Like two airedale terriers, two cocker spaniels, two collies. All the dog breeds would have to be taken for them all to be alive and prospering right now. Really! God "absorbed the water"? That would be nice if he did that when I have my friends over and want to play basketball and football. Yes, i am saying magically because it is JUST A STORY! The Bible was wrtten by man. Do you want me to prove to you God isn't perfect? I still don' get how it dispoves evolution, yet alone be accurate. They even say their data may be inncorrect.
Look, your own pastor for the christian network admitted the Earth was older than 6,000 years!(1)
Can't. The Bible says nothing about evolution.
Because they actually found Jesus's tomb and it was empty. He also may have used it as sympolisim.
Case 3: Evolution, The Truth
Case 1:First, I would like to prove how evolution is real. In a shocking discovery, we share 98.6% of our DNA with an ape. (1) if you click into link, you can barely tell the ape and human chromosome apart! Yet, when you compare it to a mouse's chromosomes, you can clearly see the difference. This proves that the ape and humans are greatly related. This proves evolution. Still not satisfied? Well, we should prove evolution using man's best friend. It is proven we share 5% of our genome sequence with dogs and mouse. (2) this again proves evolution. Even dogs and mice have a scientific similarity! I think I have proven evolution true. However, I will now prove it is not possible without the existence of god.
Case 2:Let's start out with the classic question. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? While regular atheist evolutionist have a lot of trouble answering the question, people who believe in theistic evolution do not. The atheist think life was not created, but knows that you need a male and female sex cell to produce offspring in animals who sexually reproduce. While, people who believe in theistic evolution have not problem answering this. God created the chicken or his ancestor. So they then say that god created the chicken, or god created the ancestor of the chicken, and it evolved into a chicken.
My next case is that everything would have to evolve at the same time for an our Eco-system to be the way it is now. Think of the flower bee relationship. Flowers are less complex than bees, and would take a shorter time to evolve. This would mean that all the non self pollinating flowers would die off because the bees did not evolve in time. Atheist also have problems giving a explanation for this. While people who believe in theistic evolution can easily explain it. God created the bees and flowers ancestor, so they were able to survive and evolve.I think these are sound arguments that proves that theistic evolution is a way to explain animals and humans today. Thank you for reading my argument.
The dating proof "everyone" uses, C-14 dating, is most certainly fake. People just don't want to admit it because it hurts their theory. http://www.creationtoday.org... Watch the video. Now do you believe me?
For Noah's flood you used the dog explanation again. Every single kind of dog can interbreed. There are size complications for big and small dogs, but they can have children if you get it to work. This mean every species of dog is one kind of animal. A dog most plainly said. This means Noah would only need to bring TWO dogs. Selective breeding has brought us the many types of dogs we see today.
God can do anything. He made the some of the water disappear, and the rest became oceans, rivers, lakes, and some underground sources we see today. Do you think God can't do everything? Let me tell you, he can.
Your attempt at challenge one was a waste of time. I asked YOU to give ME Scientific Information. You gave me none.
You only gave me one evidence of evolution. Just because DNA is the same doesn't mean organisms evolved! What if Humans evolved into Monkeys?! The DNA of a banana is 80% similar to a humans. We evolved from bananas Thats IT!
Let me tell you, you have NOT proven evolution true, not in the slightest.
You say God created creatures which evolved into different ones that became useful in the ecosystem.
Also, everything would not need to evolve to make an ecosystem the way it is now. Obviously it says in the Bible that God created everything as it is so the bees and the flowers were created at the same time.
This is a task you have to complete:
Prove the earth is greater than 6000 years old (Which i asked before and you couldn't do)
Thats all i want you to do. Give me scientific evidence that it is. Real evidence. Not someone saying it is older than 6000 years old. Give me a statistic and then explain it
ex. Jupiter and Saturn are cooling off. This proves a young earth. How? If it was billions of years old then they would be finished cooling off and at a constant temperature. http://infidels.org...
The Lie Called Adam And Eve Part 4:
This is mainly based on biblical proof, which is non-sense, so i won't need to refute much. Just so you know, I used to believe in all of the Bible, but the overwhelming scientific proof made me re-think my beliefs. UV lights do harm. I will give you that. But there is no way that if we were sheilded from a little of it, we would live to 800. I wish!
The Lie Called Noah's Ark Part 4:
Your website is a biblical website, and is most likely bias. Nope, I don't believe you. You can't mix two breeds, and expect all the types of dogs to result in all the breeds! Any person who has a dog ( I have one) will know this is impossible! Has God done anything recently? No!
I am on vacation, and are trying to finish all my debates so i can just enjoy my vacation and write my my girlfriend (she is awesome). So i'll be glad to start a debate when I get back home.
Here is proof that the Earth is older than.4, 000 years. (1) alot actually.
Thanks for the debate!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by SPENCERJOYAGE14 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Both sides did not prove their cases to be superior, but having to make a choice I would choose Pro as winner. Con had better conduct as Pro cussed a few times. Pro had most reliable resources.
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