The Instigator
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
Tangerine_Sunshine_1971
Pro (for)
Losing
28 Points

Evolution is a part of atheism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,521 times Debate No: 6615
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (9)

 

Tatarize

Con

Despite common claims that evolution is simply preaching atheism, this is not the case. Evolution is a well established and evidenced theory which explains the progression, form, organization, and distribution of all the life on this planet without the need of any outside forces. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God. There were plenty of atheists before Darwinian evolution became widely known and easily properly understood as the mechanism for the design of life.

While there is some congruity between having a firm and robust theory which allows us to understand all life on the planet without needing to genuflect to God and not believing in God. They are completely different.

Ken Miller: Ken Miller is a theist and a world class biologist who fully understands evolution.

Raelians: Raelians are a religious group who believe that aliens created Earth and the life on this planet. They don't believe in God and thus are atheists while they believe in creationisms and often deny the basic science behind evolution.

Without overlap between the two it seems remarkably hard to show that evolution is part of atheism. Further, atheism is only a lack of belief in God giving it a total of 0 claims needing to be accepted by all atheists for them to be atheists. With zero claims and evolution being one claim, it's once again a nearly impossible argument to make.
Tangerine_Sunshine_1971

Pro

I would like to thank my competitor for posting this debate, but I would like him to know that I intend to win.
While I will agree Atheism has been around far longer than the theory of evolution I will not agree that they don't go hand in hand. The theory of evolution basically states that there is no God, and the followers of Atheism do not believe in God. So let me ask you two questions. What would they believe besides the theory of evolution if they do not believe in God? Also, If we evolved from monkeys/apes, why are they still alive?
Debate Round No. 1
Tatarize

Con

The theory of evolution has nothing to say about the existence of God. Atheists existed before Darwin's theory of evolution, not because of it. Atheism includes no belief at all, it simply consists of not believing in God. In a very real sense, babies are atheists. They don't believe in God and they also don't grasp or understand evolution.

There are plenty of atheists who don't believe in evolution. Some simply don't understand the theory or care, they just understand that religious claims are completely hollow and vacuous. They don't care or understand the theory which serves as the cornerstone of biology and they don't believe nonsensical religious claims.

Also, seeing as atheism is simply a lack of a belief in God. The position includes nothing. There are no parts to it at all. There's nothing to it. There's not believing this one thing and you're an atheist. It's an adjective not a group.

>>What would they believe besides the theory of evolution if they do not believe in God?

Anything. If they don't believe in God then they are an atheist, regardless whether or not they accept or deny evolution or think it was aliens or bigfoot or anything. If they don't believe in God, they are an atheist.

>>Also, If we evolved from monkeys/apes, why are they still alive?

http://www.talkorigins.org...

If Americans and Australians both originally come from the English, why are there still the English?

We share a common ancestor, that's all.
Tangerine_Sunshine_1971

Pro

The theory of evolution does not say anything about the exsistance of God; you are correct. However, it detracts from the idea that God created each individual creature. I would also like to say that the fossil records do not support the theroy of evolution.

There might be many atheists in your opinion, or to your knowledge that do not believe in the theory of evolution, but the fact is, most of those that have been polled in surveys admit that they believe in the theory. http://www.conservapedia.com...

Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean that they are an atheist. There are many different religious groups that believe different Gods, so how can we ever prove that an Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God? Everyone has a different opinion of who or what God is, so who is to say that someone is Atheist because they don't believe in the God that I or whoever else believe in?
Debate Round No. 2
Tatarize

Con

It is certainly true that providing a mechanism for how live arose on this planet does very directly allow one to consider the possibility that life arose on this planet via that mechanism. However, it doesn't seem to be even remotely relevant to the question. One need not believe in special creation to believe in God. One need only view evolution as the handiwork of God. There are plenty of theists who believe in evolution and God. In fact, in the United States, there are more theists who believe in evolution than there are atheists period.

Atheism doesn't have any parts, therefore evolution can't be a part.
Atheists and theists both can and do believe and not believe in evolution.

-- The fossil record is remarkably compelling evidence for evolution. If you wish to have a debate on that topic, feel free to ask. I'll gladly comply.

Surveys do find that many atheists do believe in evolution, and that some do not. Surveys also find that atheists tend to have higher IQs and oppose the death penalty. Are intelligence and death penalty opposition also part of atheism?

--

"Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean that they are an atheist."
Actually, yes it does. That's exactly what it means. A- without, -theism belief in God. Atheism is being without a belief in God.

If they believe in any God they aren't an atheist. If they are part of a theistic religious group they are not an atheist. When asked the question, do you believe in god(s)? People will answer. Those who don't answer yes, are atheists. You are an atheist with regard to the millions upon millions of various gods believed in by various religions... atheists just go one God further.

--

Thank you for the debate. I see no compelling argument given by Pro to suggest that evolution is a part of atheism. I see a few odd suggestions about various related notions and a suggestion that statistically atheists are more likely to believe in evolution (quite true, quite irrelevant). Beyond demographic considerations, no good arguments have been offered. The fact that Christians are likely buy laundry detergent makes no compelling case that buying habits are part of Christianity. -- That simply doesn't follow.

Without any compelling arguments offered and considering the arguments I've presented. My Job as Con is done. Thank you all for reading.
Tangerine_Sunshine_1971

Pro

Tangerine_Sunshine_1971 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
If you want to see a good example of an uphill battle...

http://www.debate.org...

That's my favorite debate ever.

Also, another reason is that nobody posts good debate topics anymore. I check the challenges and they all seem pretty mellow or already snapped up.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
For a number of reasons. I like to debate on some issues where I'm obviously correct but will have no lack of debaters on the other side of the proposition. For example, this topic is a common canard for a large number of people who fail to understand the issues at hand. In that same vein, winning is fun. So I get to correct peoples misconceptions while trouncing my opponent. Also, I kind of want to gain rank on the leader board.

I haven't always been this way. When I make debates where I'm pitching a very heterodox notion I often lose. I thought I did a fantastic job. I've posted some great debates on intelligent design (pro) and evolution and mainstream religion being in direct opposition. Few other debates that were pretty hard pressed to win. When ever I fight those debates I tend to put myself in a strong disadvantage.

In other news, I started a debate:
Barack Obama was elected President of the United States in the election of 2008
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by mastajake 8 years ago
mastajake
Haha Ken Miller (the debater) A theist, it's funny because it is ironic :D

I understand though Tatarize, you are referencing to someone else :P
Posted by repete21 8 years ago
repete21
Tatarize why do you debate resolutions that have fact on your side? Seriously you'd have a better chance of losing "Barack Obama was elected President of the United States in the election of 2008". I don't mean to bash but you're better than that. I've looked through your debates and these kinds of resolutions seem to be a pattern you've fallen into. Challenge yourself.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry for calling you a theist even accidentally. You're better than that and we all know it.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
>> "Ken Miller: Ken Miller is a theist and a world class biologist who fully understands evolution."

I am not!
Posted by RoyLatham 8 years ago
RoyLatham
Since atheism long preceded the Theory of Evolution, how can this be debatable? I guess if somebody accepts the challenge I'll find out.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
Lol, because it simply must be a part of one of those. Evolution is what, blue? Red? yellow? Grey?
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
Evolution is a part of atheism?
Evolution is a part of theism?
Evolution is a part of agnosticism?

Which one is it?
Posted by Nobody 8 years ago
Nobody
Alright, I'll most likely get to it tomorrow.
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tangerine_Sunshine_1971 8 years ago
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