The Instigator
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Pro (for)
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The Contender
altruisticjj
Con (against)
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Evolution -- it's a misunderstood theory

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/20/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 341 times Debate No: 79922
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
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pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

Misunderstandings are often bad, however, in the case of evolutionary theory, it's a good misunderstanding. People believe the theory because of this misunderstanding, that is what keeps the theory in the textbooks -- when you remove this misunderstanding, the theory collapses entirely.

Let me explain. In school, I was taught that evolution is when a wolf becomes a dog over time, and I believed it. But now that I understand genetics and biology, I know that this is not the case at all. The genetic information (arrangement of nucleotides) in wolves, contain the necessary information for dogs -- what that means, is that you can receive a dog, from a wolf, given enough time -- without gaining any information in the gene pool, but by simply deleting or using existing information -- very much the same way you can evolve an engine from a car by removing every other part except the engine.

However, this is not evolution -- and here is why many are confused. Evolution is often defined as a force that adapts organisms to their environment, or, the adaption of organisms to their environment is evolution (and by evolution we receive the image of the ancestry tree from various common ancestors and eventually the primordial soup)

..but here is the issue. If you want to receive a wolf from primordial soup, or a single cell, you are required to create information by making functional arrangements of nucleotides, or genes -- but ALL we ever see in nature, is decline. We never see new funcitonal genes, we only see deletion, deletion and deletion -- and sure enough, deletion can adapt an organism to the environment and make it seem like evolution, when in reality it's the exact opposite.

altruisticjj

Con

Evolution is not a misunderstood theory, it is very well documented and understood by many people. It seems that you are misunderstanding the method for which evolution takes place. Evolution is a process in which we see genetic mutations 'not deletion' over long periods of time. These mutations are handed down through reproduction and over time continue to mutate. For instance there is a recent genetic mutation called Delta32 which keeps proteins from rising to the surface of t cells. This allows for immunity to HIV. There is also people immune to malaria and brain disease. My personal favorite mutation in genes is the clear underwater vision gene . All over the world we see small mutations which has allowed people to adapt to certain problems dominant in their areas. Now if we continue this process of mutations over incredibly long amounts of time we could find incredibly different biological structures.
Debate Round No. 1
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

I believe you have not understood my position or what I have said. I *clearly* said in my opening statement that mutations *can* result in a loss of specificity, information and deletion of existing material AND adapt organisms -- you obviously did not catch that since every instance of mutational adaption you have mentioned was a loss of specificity, and I said we observe that in my opening statement. Here, let me address the two you have specifically mentioned briefly.

(1) In the Delta32 mutation you have mentioned.. HIV enters through the CCR5 receptors, but the mutation actually *degrades* the receptor, and this way HIV is blocked from entering. It's not at all an increase in complexity, it's a clear decrease.

(2) This underwater vision I have not heard of before, but from what I have read for the last half hour, I discovered that the mutation has restricted the pupil to 1.96 mm unlike the normal 2.50 mm. I hope you notice that once again, this is a loss of specificity and not a new function, no new genes, nothing like that at all.

This is the misunderstanding I'm talking about. There are two types of mutations. If you EXTRAPOLATE the mutations that degrade, you can never achieve new animals. If you EXTRAPOLATE the mutations that upgrade, you can achieve new animals. HOWEVER, we only observe type one mutations, that is what I'm telling you.
altruisticjj

Con

altruisticjj forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
altruisticjj

Con

altruisticjj forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

pr.Daniel_Jordan forfeited this round.
altruisticjj

Con

altruisticjj forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
Make a debate then.
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Not so, MagicAintReal.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
Evolution is just organisms that live long enough to reproduce pass on their genetics better than those organisms who do not live long enough to reproduce.

That's it.

Characteristics that helped you live long enough to reproduce typically get passed down to your offspring, and if there are mutations during reproduction, and these mutations help the organism live long enough to reproduce, then we get different genetics over generations. Fact.
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Please re-read my opening statement Black-Jesus.
Posted by Black-Jesus 1 year ago
Black-Jesus
"Now that I understand genetics and biology..." if you really did than you would understand that the main driver of evolution, mutation, doesn't take away genes. Sometimes organisms end up with too much, when new organisms receive too much or not enough genetic information this is called nondisjunction, which could happen to any organism. And dogs and wolves do not have a different amount of genetic material per say, it is just that it is different: that is, dogs and wolves both still have 78 chromosomes in 39 pairs, this is why some types of dogs can still successfully breed with wolves. When mutation occurs, it rearranges the already existing chromosomes which changes the traits of the organism or its offspring. If the theory of evolution was so easy to disprove or discredit, it would've never made it past the wild ramblings of some moron named Darwin. However, it is the most commonly excepted theory of the origin of species in the science community.
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