Debate Rounds (3)
Evolution does not have any dates, because the theory of evolution states the earth is billions and billions of years old. Which is in direct contradiction with time as a whole. With the record of time kept by the Authors of the Bible we have an accurate description of the events of the earth and also the real age of the earth.
The Bible can be proven throughout history, and biblical prophecy, all within the record of time (2).
Sorry for all the confusion; I was under the false impression that Round 1 was acceptance only.
Now to the debate!
In my opponent's opening argument, he/she asks when evolution started. Of course, in order to determine when evolution started, we must first determine what evolution is.
Biological evolution, according to (Source 1), is defined as change through time as species become modified and diverge to produce multiple descendant species. Evolution has been in action ever since the first life appeared on Earth around 3.85 billion years ago (Source 2), when microscopic, bacterial prokaryotes began to form as a result of abiogenesis (Source 3). The first recorded physical evidence of evolution comes in the form of 3.5 billion-year-old fossilized stromatolites, or natural colonies formed by photosynthetic bacteria called cyanobacteria, found in sedimentary rocks around the coast of Shark Bay, Australia (Source 4; Source 5). As some of the stromatolites found within Shark Bay are still living and contain living cyanobacteria with only minor biological differences to those found in the 3.5 billion-year-old fossils, scientists have concluded that the modern-day cyanobacteria have evolved from those found in the 3.5 billion-year-old stromatolites.
Of course, though the oldest known example of evolution in action has already been accounted for, there are countless more examples of how evolution has made an impact upon our biological world. For example, a recent study completed at Emory University finds that chimpanzees share 96% of their DNA with human beings, suggesting a strong evolutionary relationship between the two species (Source 6). Human evolution from other primates can further be attested to due to the widespread presence of fossil evidence for many ancient primate species with similar biological characteristics and features to humans, such as Australopithecus afarensis, Paranthropus boisei, Homo erectus, and Homo neanderthalensis (Source 7). The presence of fossil evidence connecting these species biologically to humans is a testament for evolution, and is one of millions of demonstrations of how, in fact, species of organisms can become modified and diverge to produce multiple descendant species as the millennia go by.
In my opponent's argument, he/she asks if evolution started "prior to 1859," when Charles Darwin wrote "Origin of Species." I fail to understand why my opponent keeps asserting that evolution only began when "Origin of Species" was written, as well as why he/she states that the premise that "the theory of evolution states the earth is billions and billions of years old" is "in direct contradiction with time as a whole." While my opponent has put forth the argument that the Earth is only 6,000 years old due to statements found in the Bible, he/she is yet to provide evidence that this age estimate is more accurate than that proposed by science (my opponent's second source merely discusses Biblical events, but fails to provide evidence for their truth). Meanwhile, I am able to provide evidence that the Earth is older than 6,000 years old, as per (Source 8).
Overall, I believe that I have successfully demonstrated how the theory of evolution is valid, and how it began before the year 1859. I have also pointed out how my opponent has failed to provide evidence that the Earth is too young for evolution to be true, and has failed to provide evidence that the Bible's account of biological history is more accurate than that of evolution.
Thanks, and good luck!
Here are a few terms I want to define before I begin:
the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.
a point of time as measured in hours and minutes past midnight or noon.
the study of past events, particularly in human affairs.
the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
a remark, statement, or comment based on something one has seen, heard, or noticed.
a thing constituting a piece of evidence about the past, especially an account of an act or occurrence kept in writing or some other permanent form.
a number of related items of information that are handled as a unit.
the sum of the past achievements or actions of a person or organization; a person or thing's previous conduct or performance.
My argument today is based on the concept of time. Time is a record of past, present and future events. This record is used for study, and observation of events that occurred, and for events that did not occur. We both agree that time is used because we both exist in it. We have our birth days recorded, and we also, have our future deaths recorded. We as humans agree with time. As every day passes we are to count, and record the days according to the scriptures. Psalms 90:12 says, "So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom." On the 6th day God created Mankind!(5) There are also days recorded in the Bible that needs to be shared to understand our origins:
1st Day: Sunday~(See Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1; Luke 23:56; 24:1; John 20:1;Genesis 8:13)
2nd Day: Monday~(See Genesis 1:8; Exodus 2:13; Numbers 7:18; Joshua 6:14; Joshua 10:32; Judges 20:24; Nehemiah 8:13; Esther 7:2; Jeremiah 41:4; Ezekiel 44:22; 1 Samuel 20:34; 2 Chronicles 3:2)
3rd Day: Tuesday~(See Genesis 1:13; Genesis 22:4; Genesis 31:22; Genesis 34:25; Genesis 40:20; Genesis 42:18; Exodus 19:11; Exodus 19:15-16; Leviticus 7:17-18; Leviticus 19:6; Numbers 7:24; Numbers 19:12, 19; Numbers 31:19; Joshua 9:17; Judges 20:30; 1 Samuel 20:12; 1 Samuel 30:1; 2 Samuel 1:2; 1 Kings 3:18; 1 Kings 12:12; 2 Kings 20:5; Ezra 6:15; Esther 5:1)
4th Day: Wednesday~(See Genesis 1:19; Numbers 7:30; Numbers 29:23; Judges 19:5; 2 Chronicles 20:26; Ezra 8:33; Nehemiah 9:1; Zechariah 7:1)
5th Day: Thursday~(See Genesis 1:23; Numbers 7:26; Numbers 29:26; Judges 19:8; Ezekiel 1:1-2; Ezekiel 8:1; Ezekiel 33:21)
6th Day: Friday~(See Genesis 1:31; Exodus 16:5, 22, 29; Numbers 29:29).
7th Day: Saturday~(See Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11)
Clearly you have seen that the Bible agrees with our time frame because, it teaches a literal 7-day creation. The Bible illustrates this through days, and years. (6) Also, it gives an account of and keeps track of historical births, deaths, and geneologies! (7)
-Biblical History gives us a background of what events occurred in the past to understand how the human race came into being. (7) We have it recorded whether it be minor or major events. (8) Biblical History can also, be proven through biblical archaeology, dates, and many other sources. (9) History agrees with the Bible and the human race agrees with Biblical History!
According to the U.S. Naval Observatory they agree with the concept of time and history. And they claim that there is no change in Time and History. "There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week.""James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.
-Let us deal with Observation! It can only be used in two ways. In the present, and in the future. We have capabilities to observe these two time frames because, in the present age we live in, we can observe what is happening. Whether it be the cause of hurricanes and its effects, or the cause and effects of earthquakes we can understand why they occur. We do this by comparing and contrasting these events through encyclopedias, statistical data, books, and articles. We (The Human Race) are also, capable of looking up info through modern technology like the internet. So, it is evident that we can observe in the present what is occurring. And, our offspring (Children) will be able to observe what has already happened during our age and the use that information in their time period. I would like to add also that observation cannot be done through the past because, we live in the present age, and do not live in the past, lest we assume that we can observe the past.
-Finally the records! There are 40 authors of the Bible who kept records. (10) The Bible records History. (11) Also sources revolving around the Bible can be confirmed through multiple witnesses. Without a record no one can understand the past, without dates no one can understand ancient times. The Bible declares that God reveals the past, present and the future! (12)
Now let"s discuss my opponents argument:
He/She has mentioned 4 items, here they are:
1.Radiometric Dating (13)
2.Radiocarbon Dating (14)
3.Human Evolution (15)
4.Biological Evolution (16)
-Let us deal with radiometric dating first! It is a known fact that Radiometric dating was first introduced in 1907 by Bertram Boltwood. (13) This invention was used to date materials such as rocks or carbon, "usually based on a comparison between the observed abundance of a naturally occurring radioactive isotope and its decay products, using known decay rates." (13) Radiometric dating did not begin during the beginning of time, but in 1907 by Bertram Boltwood. If there is any historical evidence, dates, or records that shows radiometric dating was invented prior to 1907, or in the beginning of time, then and only then can the earth be proven to be 3.5 billion or million years old. The rule here is anything that was invented within time to show the age of the earth, after the fact, is not history, nor historical evidence, but, assumptions and educated guesses made by scientists. Therefore, from the beginning of time up until 1907 there was no such thing as radiometric dating. Let us move on"
-Radiocarbon Dating is defined, "when cosmic rays strike our atmosphere and bombard atoms, thus releasing neutrons." (14) It is a known fact, that the method of Radiocarbon Dating was invented by Willard Libby in the late 1940"s. Libby received a nobel prize for his work in the 1960"s. (14) Once again my argument is: Was there an invention of radiocarbon dating prior to the late 1940"s? The answer is no, it came from Willard Libby in the late 1940"s. This means that from the beginning up until the time of the late 1940"s, there was no method called radiocarbon dating! Therefore, radiocarbon dating is another assumption made by a scientist. This simply does not meet the requirements of time, nor does it meet the requirements of record keeping.
-The idea of Human Evolution was proposed by Charles Darwin in his book called, "The Origin of Species, in 1859. (15) This idea showed that humans came from apes but there is no evidence for this. My opponent mentions 4 items:
In these 2 items, I will ask two strong questions for my opponent:
1.How could man evolve from Australopithecus afarensis, if man was already here one million years before them?
2.Neanderthal man has a brain 13% larger than humans, how do scientists reconcile this information?
Basically, the ideas of Darwin and these other individuals cannot be found, nor proven because it contradicts, and overlaps in years, and in size. If the idea of human evolution existed prior to 1859 then it is plausible to say that evolution is real. But, this is not the case! Therefore Evolution was a product of Darwin"s imagination. Also, they (evolutionists) will have to explain the idea of pregnancy from evolutionary terms. But the basis for human evolution started in 1859, and was not around for millions and billions of years. (15) The starting point was and always will be 1859! This is an historical fact. (15)
Finally, Biological Evolution does not give any dates nor does an individual invent this. This was an assumption of how the events occurred made by scientists. There is no historical evidence pertaining to this, nor can this theory be proven. The only evidence shown in this theory is Charles Darwin"s interpretation of events that occurred from 1859, and on.(16)
Extra sources my opponent can look for him/her self before next round:
My argument will always be in these items mentioned above if evolution is true please show that it appeared from the beginning of time? Not through man"s ideas but, a record of historical evidence, throughout time. There should be a continual amount of information from the beginning of time not ideas made up by man within time. Thank You! And may God bless us indeed as we may prepare for Jesus Christs" Second Coming!
Now that I've already presented my initial argument in favor of evolution (Round 2), I'll address my opponent's arguments and try to conclude the debate.
The definitions that my opponent has provided seem pretty on point; I thank him for providing them.
As per Con's own words, my opponent's argument is "based off of the concept of time." My opponent is correct in saying that "time is a record of past, present and future events," and that "this record is used for study, and observation of events that occurred, and for events that did not occur."
However, I find my opponent's citing of multiple Bible sources regarding time fairly inappropriate, as he/she has not been able to provide any evidence whatsoever for said claims. Though I do appreciate my opponent's very liberal use of sources regarding what the Bible says regarding history and time (including a rather interesting 795-page Biblical analysis), I find Con's failure to include sources regarding how the claims he/she has made are valid rather disconcerting.
Of course, if one wishes to espouse claims as such, one must also provide evidence in favor of these claims' validity, not just an analysis of said claims. I could just as easily produce an equally in-depth analysis of the Islamic view of history and time, though this analysis would be without merit unless evidence can be provided in favor of its truth.
While my opponent is correct in stating that the Bible "teaches a literal 7-day creation" and "illustrates this through days, and years," he is once more unable to provide evidence that said claims are true. Con does, in fact, state that "Biblical History can also, be proven through biblical archaeology, dates, and many other sources" and provides (Source 1) in favor of said claim, this source does not in any way address the alleged creation of the universe in seven days, nor does it assert that the universe is only around 6,000 years old.
Instead, the script provided merely summarizes a variety of mid-eastern civilizations mentioned within the Bible between 1300-1100 B.C.E. (I encourage voters to review this source for additional validation if they so choose). Clearly, this source does not advance my opponent's claim that the universe was created in seven days 6,000 years ago, as the topics it discusses are irrelevant to the creation of the universe.
My opponent's next argument revolves around the claim that "[observation] can only be used in two ways... in the present, and in the future." While my opponent is correct in stating that the human species can, in fact, observe events taking place in the present (I find his assertion that we can observe the future dubious, but that is irrelevant), I find his later assertion that "observation cannot be done through the past because, we live in the present age, and do not live in the past, lest we assume that we can observe the past" inherently flawed.
While we, of course, cannot physically see past events unless they have been recorded using photography or videography, this is not to say that we cannot show past events to be true using evidence. Clearly, this is the case with evolution, as though we (obviously) cannot see evolution actually happening right in front of us, evidence for such is extremely widespread and easily accessible (see my Round 2 argument for more information) (Source 2).
Con next claims that "there are 40 authors of the Bible who kept records," saying that "the Bible records history" and that "sources revolving around the Bible can be confirmed through multiple witnesses." As usual, he/she is able to produce many sources, though, after looking through each of them, I have found that none actually provide any evidence that these claims are true (once more, I encourage voters to read through my opponent's sources if they so choose in order to validate that they are, in fact, irrelevant to providing evidence for the validity of the Bible). The sources provided in this section of my opponent's argument, as well as virtually all of the others, simply analyze Biblical claims instead of providing scientific or historical outside evidence that they are true.
My opponent next, of course, addresses my claims.
First, Con argues that radiometric dating somehow can't be valid, as "radiometric dating did not begin during the beginning of time, but in 1907 by Bertram Boltwood." I find that my opponent uses claims along these lines often throughout his argument, though I fail to understand how they are relevant. It appears that my opponent is unable to understand the concept of being able to know about past events using modern-day evidence-collecting techniques. Con appears to be arguing that historical events cannot be shown to be true unless you actually witness them yourself (this allegation is further emphasized in his earlier argument regarding observation).
Of course, this allegation is overwhelmingly absurd, as nobody would be able to do much of anything unless we would be able to use modern tools to collect past evidence. For example, using my opponent's logic, modern-day detectives would be unable to show that a culprit is responsible for a crime based off of fingerprints, DNA evidence, etc., as the detectives weren't actually there to physically see the crime take place. The evidence for evolution is just as compelling as that at a crime scene (fingerprints=fossils; DNA evidence=DNA evidence, etc.), and it is just as absurd to assume that detectives are unable to find someone guilty of a crime based off of said evidence as it is to assume that evolution is impossible to validate due to us not actually being there to see it.
My opponent's argument regarding radiocarbon dating is essentially the same, as he argues that it is impossible for radiocarbon dating to validate any past events because radiocarbon dating, like radiometric dating and forensic technologies, rely on evidence from the past in order to validate claims from the present.
My opponent brings up two counterarguments regarding evolution. They are as follows:
1. "How could man evolve from Australopithecus afarensis, if man was already here one million years before them?"
This claim just isn't... true. According to (Source 3) and (Source 4), Australopithecus afarensis lived "between 3.85 and 2.95 million years ago", while modern day humans cropped up "nearly 200,000 years ago." (Source 5) further validates the actual evidence I have provided.
2. "Neanderthal man has a brain 13% larger than humans, how do scientists reconcile this information?"
While this may be true, (Source 6) and (Source 7) explain that the Neanderthals needed to use much more brain space than we do to accomplish simple tasks that we are able to accomplish easily, such as sight and hearing. Meanwhile, anatomically-modern humans are able to use much more of their brains for relatively complex cognitive functions.
Overall, I believe that I have won this debate, as I have successfully provided numerous valid arguments in favor of evolution's truth (see Round 2), successfully rebutted the counterarguments made by Con, and successfully rebuked each of Con's claims regarding the validity of historical Biblical accounts. Before I hand this debate to the voters, I must stress that while my opponent has provided a fairly large number of sources, none of them actually provide evidence in favor of the validity of the Bible's historical claims, instead merely analyzing civilizations mentioned in the Bible and quoting a variety of Biblical stories/passages. Meanwhile, it seems that my sources have, in fact, been able to provide actual evidence in favor of a pro-evolution argument, through fossil evidence, DNA evidence, and other forms.
Thank you, and good luck! :)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ax123man 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: It's not my position as voter to pass judgement on Con's position that we can't see history, but fortunately I think Pro countered that well with the detectives/crime scene analogy. That was really the crux of the whole debate, other than a couple points Con brought up on evolution, which Pro handled in the last round.
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