The Instigator
Israel.Hadden
Pro (for)
The Contender
ProffesorSavage
Con (against)

Evolutionism vs Creationism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2017 Category: Science
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 293 times Debate No: 102193
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
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Israel.Hadden

Pro

Through an amazing amount of evidence including astrology, archeology, biology, philosophy, and historical studies, I have found Creationism to be the only plausible answer for the beginning and purpose for life. Not only any Creator however, but the Creator that is clearly outlined in the Bible. I have found it true that Jesus was the son of God, did many miracles, and rose again. I would prefer an Atheist with many counter arguments to be involved in this debate.
ProffesorSavage

Con

Mankind evolved down from sponges. Mankind has believed in evolution for two hundred years. Moreover to support the belief plenty of evidence has been found. For example, a line of evolved ape skulls was found connecting to the earliest apes. Here are a number of elements that both Gilgamesh and the flood story in Genesis share:

God decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds. God knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah. God ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew), and the hero initially complained about the assignment to build the boat. The ship would have many compartments, a single door, be sealed with pitch and would house one of every animal species. A great rain covered the land with water. The ark landed on a mountain in the Middle East. The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return. The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice. The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well because he promised never to do it again. Keep in mind the level of detail in these similarities. It"s not a matter of just a flood, but specific details: three birds sent out, resisting the call to build the ark, and a single man being chosen by God to build the ark. Then consider that the first story (Gilgamesh) came from Babylon " hundreds of years before the Bible was even written. Do you honestly think, based on the similarities above, that those who wrote the Genesis story had not heard the Gilgamesh story? And if they had heard it, and they were simply rehashing an old, very popular tale, what does that say about the Bible?

Perhaps even more compelling is the story of Christ himself. As it turns out it"s not even remotely original. It is instead nothing more than a collection of bits and pieces from dozens of other stories that came long before. Here are some examples.

Asklepios healed the sick, raised the dead, and was known as the savior and redeemer. Hercules was born of a divine father and mortal mother and was known as the savior of the world. Dionysus was literally the "Son of God", was born of a woman who had not had sex with a man, and was depicted riding a donkey. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles and was killed and resurrected, after which time he became immortal. Osiris did the same things. He was born of a virgin, was considered the first true king of the people, and when he died he rose from the grave and went to heaven. Osiris"s son, Horus, was known as the "light of the world", "The good shepherd", and "the lamb". He was also referred to as, "The way, the truth, and the life." His symbol was a cross-like symbol. Mithra"s birthday was celebrated on the 25th of December, his birth was witnessed by local shepherds who brought him gifts, had 12 disciples, and when he was done on earth he had a final meal before going up to heaven. On judgment day he"ll return to pass judgment on the living and the dead. The good will go to heaven, and the evil will die in a giant fire. His holiday is on Sunday (he"s the Sun God). His followers called themselves "brothers", and their leaders "fathers". They had baptism and a meal ritual where symbolic flesh and blood were eaten. Heaven was in the sky, and hell was below with demons and sinners. Krishna had a miraculous conception that wise men were able to come to because they were guided by a star. After he was born an area ruler tried to have him found and killed. His parents were warned by a divine messenger, however, and they escaped and was met by shepherds. The boy grew up to be the mediator between God and man. Buddha"s mother was told by an angel that she"d give birth to a holy child destined to be a savior. As a child, he teaches the priests in his temple about religion while his parents look for him. He starts his religious career at roughly 30 years of age and is said to have spoken to 12 disciples on his deathbed. One of the disciples is his favorite, and another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around speaking in parables and metaphors. He called himself "the son of man" and was referred to as, "prophet", "master", and "Lord". He healed the sick, cured the blind and deaf, and he walked on water. One of his disciples tried to walk on water as well but sunk because his faith wasn"t strong enough. Apollonius of Tyana (a contemporary of Jesus) performed countless miracles (healing sick and crippled, restored sight, cast out demons, etc.) His birth was a virgin, foretold by an angel. He knew scripture really well as a child. He was crucified, rose from the dead and appeared to his disciples to prove his power before going to heaven to sit at the right hand of the father. He was known as, "The Son of God". The problem, of course, is that these previous narratives existed hundreds to thousands of years before Jesus did.

Not only was the Bible taken largely and blatantly from previous stories, but there are contradictions so massive that they defy belief. Here are just a few of them. Noah"s Ark: The story of the Ark is that a pair of every animal on earth was put on the ship. Forgetting for a second the fact that the story came directly from the Epic of Gilgamesh, keep in mind we"re being asked to believe that two 500-year-old people are caring for tens of thousands of animals. And where did they keep the food? How did they keep the poisonous snakes from biting the other animals? And where did they get the polar bears, alligators, and thousands of other animals that that don"t live in the Middle East? The Angel"s Message: In Matthew 1:20 it says the Angel spoke to Joseph. In Luke 1:28 he spoke to Mary. Which was it?Mary"s Virginity: The Hebrew word "Almah", which people took to mean virgin, actually means "young woman of marriage age". And there are plenty of indications that Jesus had brothers and sisters. The Census: The authors of the Bible are trying so hard to get Jesus born in Bethlehem that they craft a story about a census. They say that Joseph had to travel back to his father"s homeland in order to register for it. Can you seriously imagine"in any period let alone then"asking the entire country to travel back their father"s hometown to register for a census? It"s completely impossible. The author of the story put it in there because they needed Jesus born in that city. Plus, historians note that the Romans kept extraordinary records, and there wasn"t even a census at that time. It"s completely fabricated and for obvious reasons. Jesus and the Family: The Bible says to honor your father and mother, yet Jesus says you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, and even your own life to be a disciple, and says to call no man on earth your father. (MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26, MT 23:9) God and Murder: God says killing is wrong, yet he advocates genocide. (EX 34:11-14, LV 26:7-9) God and Slavery: We all know slavery to be wrong, yet God openly advocates it. (GN 17:12, EX 12:43, EX: 21:1, EX 21:20, EX 21:32, LV 22:10, LV 25:44, LK 7:2, CL 3:22) Jesus"s Heritage: There are two different genealogies for Jesus given in the Bible, and they don"t match. One is curiously given through Joseph, which is strange since he"s not Jesus"s father. Why give a genealogy to someone who isn"t related to you? The Passover: It"s widely understood that God is supposed to be all-seeing and all-knowing. If that"s true, then why did he need people to mark their houses with blood in order to keep from killing their babies inside?
I cannot type any more characters but do get back to me.
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Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by missmedic 8 months ago
missmedic
Creationism contradicts our background knowledge.
Creationism rest beyond rational investigation.
Creationism is not part of objective reality.
Posted by Spud 8 months ago
Spud
Con screwed himself by regurgitating trash from Zeitgeist. Not even Richard Carrier believes that rebarbative crap; no competent scholar in this area is silly enough to use debunked ideas which resurfaced because of that conspiracy-theory mockumentary

Con should have asked Pro what sect of creationism he belongs to - either OEC, YEC, and whether or not Pro believes Noachian flood etc. then show why a Noachian flood isn't feasible, or show how we get the age of our Earth using dating methods etc.
Posted by Spud 8 months ago
Spud
Con screwed himself by regurgitating trash from Zeitgeist. Not even Richard Carrier believes that rebarbative crap; no competent scholar in this area is silly enough to use debunked ideas which resurfaced because of that conspiracy-theory mockumentary

Con should have asked Pro what sect of creationism he belongs to - either OEC, YEC, and whether or not Pro believes Noachian flood etc. then show why a Noachian flood isn't feasible, or show how we get the age of our Earth using dating methods etc.
Posted by SolonKR 8 months ago
SolonKR
I might be willing to accept. Could you define "creationism", though, so I have a better idea of what you want to argue?
Posted by Jonbonbon 8 months ago
Jonbonbon
I understand that these are often seen as mutually exclusive, but there are quite a few Christians who subscribe to Old Earth Creationism, which recognizes that evolution happened, but God played an active role in it. Anyway, just thinking a rephrasal may be good to account for a Creationism that does not believe in evolution.
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