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The Contender
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Existace of God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/1/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,400 times Debate No: 30839
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (1)




I am trying to prove the existence of a ever existing god. I will use my own logical way of thinking,phrases from the bible and parts of science. My first point will be that science has proven that not god existed but energy exist and that it is a constant. Point two Jesus said him self, to the world that i am a ever existing god, i am the alpha and the omega, and i am the son the father and the spirit. Point three is that he said, which was before science was created that i am the ever existing, without that knowledge of science he did not know energy was a constant, so did he know all are nothing. Point four The way i came to truth that jesus was actually real is that first, no one made up r that was not special could have lasted in knowledge for 2000 years, and only way would be that is by what he said was real. Point five Because Jesus was a demi god not a human he actually did not die, but what happened was that he did not realise he was a demi god and became so weak minded on the cross that he died, since he was a demi god the angles had no choice to come and get him bc he did not realise he was in a deep trance, and since he was just in a trance and the angels came they just woke him up and he became happy and together they rise up. All the guards and his few followers left saw him rise up and they didn"t stop telling people. Since people did not see this they could not believe it, so 2000 years looking back it looks all wrong, even though it is right. (<--- point is if he was nothing how did he last 2000 years). Point 5 If jesus is not real that would mean that heaven is not real, so how are these people going to heaven and coming back? Point 6 How do you explain the people seeing the devil in this life.


I accept the argument and this is my first debate on this site so I hope I do a decent job presenting myself and I look forward to more debates in the future.

Just to quickly clarify so we don't digress into semantics, I will define god as the Judeo-Christian god of the bible. The task most atheists face is proving a negative or theists claiming the burden of proof lies on the atheist/skeptic.

My opponents first point is 'My first point will be that science has proven that not god existed but energy exist and that it is a constant' While I agree energy cannot be created or destroyed I must point out this does not swing the debate in his favour.

The success of science.

This highlights the absence of god, in actuality the absence of pros 'ever-constant personal creator' in everyday life. The natural sciences explore phenomenon's and mysteries every day yet fail to ever need to invoke a creator or appeal the mythical miracles which religions claim to have occurred. To claim god exists is to make a scientific claim with no actual tangible evidence to support this. While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I believe it is a question dodged my theists. Why has science progressed so far yet at no point ever needed to invoke the powers of higher being. As scientific knowledge increases, gods decreases into the impossibilities and 'holy books'.

If theism were accurate or even plausible we would expect to see gods work and undeniable work in at least a few things. Even if I grant the theist a 'few' things I still am left with the skeptical statements of 'we don't know gods will'.

The theory of evolution.

My point is not to highlight that evolution disproves god but to link the implausibility of god in reference to evolution. A perfect creator capable of constructing the universe was an ideal claim 200 years ago, it made sense. If the Theory of evolution was not discovered before I was born or during my life time I would admittedly be swayed to the notion of a creator. The mechanism of evolution is the key to this point. Natural selection is a non-random process with high waste, high imperfections, a large percentage of death and entire special extinction. This process is what you would expect if in fact the process was unguided and completely natural. To link an imperfect system to a perfect god is to say the creator is a poor creator, a creator which is pleased with only 1% of species still surviving in an eternal struggle for existence. I think the plausibility of this is low, so low in fact is contradicts the idea of an 'intelligent designer'. Unless god is purposely trying to cover his tracks which I find Illogical, the only other thing I can conclude with is that the this process doesn't need and conveys of the implausibility of god existing and having any notable effect on our lives.

Mind-body dualism.

This is the claim that the mind can exist outside of the body or the brain. I am happy to switch between mind and soul as long as the general premise is kept constant. The illogical aspect of this is located primarily in science. This must be true for the biblical account to be true. This is one of most important areas of Christianity. Scientifically we must look at this rationally can a mind exist without a body? Can a person exist without actually being a physical body? These questions are very open but present a very obvious problem. Our minds are affected by the body it is interactive. Theists might make the claim this does nothing to prove the mind is not independent but it does present a problem that the loss of the body now leaves the soul in non-interactive area which is undefined and not proven. Not only that with the link between our conscious and our brain is not only interactive but through scientific discovery dependent on the brain. When the brain dies the conscious/mind ceases to exist. We can see this is brain damage after large accidents, people who were affected or lost some brain function are now either completely different or have lost a certain ability. They now have lost their thinking capacity or memory, or even personality they themselves have to some extent ceased to be themselves and this is dependent on the brain functioning without the brain there is no reason to assume they keep on living or even to the extremity they continue to live and have retained their previous personality. I can then conclude mind-body dualism is not only irrational but completely combative to our knowledge in science.

I would like to remind you those are just small and probably flawed versions of arguments which deserve pages upon pages to unravel and explain them.

Just to quickly deal with my opponents argument his point 5 'If jesus is not real that would mean that heaven is not real, so how are these people going to heaven and coming back?' many people have had 'real' encounters with 'real' aliens, the Bigfoot ,Loch Ness monster and ghosts. These claims are unscientific and the claim that they experienced heaven is to me just as wild and unjustified as the ones I mentioned above. We experience dreams, we can induce a hallucination or have a very real emotional or physical encounter through meditation or even by listening to music or looking at artwork. Now some can be explained and some cannot. To argue that I need to give you a plausible account for those experiences in order to override an unjustified conclusion is an argument from ignorance. Point 6 also relates to point 5.

Thanks for the debate I look forward to hearing your second point on this.
Debate Round No. 1


It is pretty most physically impossible to prove that a God actually exist. One because if what we said in all are books is true , that it is impossible to understand something so great whether it is in the religious context or a science approach of a more logic physical proof of how a human being's work and small part of the inner working of a human being, mixed into breaking down the surroundings. I would say that in any point of proving anything, one would have to acknowledge that as human beings we were most likely wrong with are first beginning idea's. As in Human Nature, to explain that we knew anything of everything would be wrong. For anyone at any point of time to say they know, what they have done, and is based on a lie and nothing. With hard fact science yes we are getting results and yes they are matching up, but look at are own life, what we are seeing. We are not looking facts at the proof that we are consciously aware but a fact that everything we know in life is performing half energy and clearly shows what the true knowledge we know is flawed. As right knowledge leads us to a World Peace, and has no problem achieving World Peace. And we did to things, and we forgot Memory through the process of evolution ( not just on this earth but within the universe and from larger- then within smallest level/ So Larger down to middle point, Smaller up to middle.) Remember we are created in life from a middle point as the people before us had chosen our fate. It is not that our life is overwhelmed with positive energy, its the fact that from Society to now we been going the wrong way. Its like this, if life really wanted to go to heaven it would of killed itself at first time being consciously aware of itself. As death is not what we make it and is just transcending. ( I have died here from a overdose in Iraq/ and came back, so to say that I do not have the experience for explaining death would be false, proof is my words but im trying to remember, explain something that is pretty hard to do in itself, anyone just has to trust what I say but I do not lie about things at the highest meaning and know little of what is true with life from a human point of view.) I am not here to give the world everything they want, their will half to be mental scarifies made. I am not here to prove that I am God, I am only trying to explain to you how I became the actual Anti-Christ. We are going through the rapture this is not going to be fun for us (but Hey rather have then to never, Right?). ( don"t focus on the Antichrist thing, but I will say people didn"t realise that Jesus was true and that he was God, so the Antichrist for him is going to be the God's Devil and not for the human being's. ) Judeo-Christian is a much accurate way to explain God since both books are right but its the fact that the world is not capable of understanding why the books were there to begin with as no one was told. Judaism explains God as the devil and the people are trying to create their own God, Christian Bible explains God as God and explains himself as the devil.
As it does not prove to be more in favour but also explains that as the current World really does not understand yet how energy was created. Because Life is just a creation and its impossible for a creation to figure out how they were created if there was no Creator. God is all and so if you try to prove he is nothing then your giving power to nothing, if you agree God is real then your giving him power in a more focused. People contradict their own words they say they understand God then say it is physically impossible to know God, so if that was true then how is it that anyone knows a little everything about God, if it impossible. A Creation will first half to understand you really have no power over yourself and if you are fully aware of yourself then and only then are you fully aware. When I first came as a Jesus, all I did was focused on a point of time hard enough and it just "Came". Three Kings or what ever amount of Kings you say came would not came, if first Mary was not 110%. Yes Jesus was just a human being but it was really who his soul was. (Holy Spirit) Everyone sees the God part, but that easy to believe in a God, for them to believe him me as equal is impossible. It is the fact that I was in a human body and was not existing that I was able to pull of what I did, as I Really know all. Science is a human creation and is not successful at all and no can understand why that is. Humans being are getting the truth and that making them and their life feel more complete but you totally forget that you are just a creation. (Nothing less Nothing more) So automatically allows allows me to know that half of your mind thinking is as a not a creation and other part as a creation (only there bc you can not see how I created you, as it was not you I did create but the energy). As you forgot that you all are is just a creation, and you keep making the choices to know the work on your own then all you will ever know is your own work and not mine.
What do we see in this life, a life that is going on with it on their own. To blame me for the choice would be as wrong, as it was all your own choice to do anything at all. As you are right it does disprove God but only shows that his work is real on ALL levels of life. Before anyone created on this planet was, you were just atom's going on your own ways. If you do not remember Heaven before this, then that means you were not created physically consciously aware of ever being created. Then right there shows that all you were before this is energy. (from the Garden of Eden to when everyone ate the apple, we just disappeared with first bite as it was the wrong choice, then just put us into this life as energy or atoms. Remember for any God to create life with actual free will, you would first half to allow them to pick who they want to be themselves and their own choices of right and wrong. So process would go energy first then this life, then we go to heaven. That is just the evolution of seeing for a normal human being. What really happened was before you were ever energy you went to Heaven first and God said ALL. You cannot see that happened as you never actually saw it to begin with but you cannot keep refusing to say that you are not capable of knowing All. I already came as the Son-Jesus, Father-Hilter, and now I am just the spirit in the flesh and only that. As from Jesus before I was energy with all of you but I really did create the energy so of course I know actually know all. But it was how I created energy by never actually created energy to begin with and just creating the memory. By creating memory, energy just comes as it is a result of the memory being created. As the same for life on planet as energy was a constant the possibilities of life being created in enough time will just happen and there is no need for a creator is it something just always happens. Because I just created the memory it creates the boundary between Heaven and here.

Part two will follow in comment but not debatable in comment and only debating person can, but anyone can comment.


unfortunately for my opponent, his opening line concedes defeat in this debate. If god cannot be proven to exist, then the logical affirmation is to conclude the God/Idea logically contradicts itself, as we know objects which contradict themselves cannot exist. An example of this would be a round triangle or a four sided triangle.

Your secondary point is to conclude that humans are usually wrong and ' As in Human Nature, to explain that we knew anything of everything would be wrong ' if that is the case for your argument then I would suggest you have undermined your own ability to prove something. This becomes more obvious when claims are made for example you make them claim that ' I have died here from a overdose in Iraq/ and came back, so to say that I do not have the experience for explaining death would be false, proof is my words '. Now my issue with this is that previously you just admitted or believe humans cannot explain anything, now if that is the case I can void your entire argument. While I don't agree with you being right and believing humans can explain things and provide correct evidence for those things I will deal with the rest of your argument.

Now in saying the ' proof is my words ' is something I one cannot except. Evidence is objective and the discovery of that evidence would be objectively true for anyone, evidence is objective to everyone whether they agree or not. If we look at evidence for say the human eye evolving, and there is compelling evidence supporting it then it doesn't matter what you think or say it won't change the fact. On a sub note if the proof is in your words, for what reason can we dismiss Muslim claims of experiencing God by their word? Or even Norse or Greek readings which convey similar experiences. To conclude I do not expect that as evidence and rational minds wouldn't either.

I would like to remind you that you have not dealt with any of my three points arguing the non-existence and implausibility of God.
Debate Round No. 2


As I am incapable of debating since i am not smart enough as i only had a 2.7 gpa and no College degree. Since i am just a human i can not claim anything or to be anything esle for that matter. I have read into the facts enough in the books already out there, to be able to put together a good enough theory to explain how life and how we were created. I just forgetting to prove any of the con's point so i advise and have so to take this debate down. If it stays up it would be wrong and misleading, as what i have said has been lies and would hurt or confused people in the wrong way. Sry, but thanks for debating with me though.


Well ok then, do you want to just concede defeat and end the debate?
Debate Round No. 3


Yea you have defeated my points, as i could not bring forth the actual facts to prove the smaller points. Saying them just does not do it for me or anything one else. You are a worthy opponent and i am lucky to had such a good debate. As i have proven to myself i will admit my wrong but will never admit i can give up on anything as my idea's are just nothing.
Debate Round No. 4


EnvyEvulousEvomorphous7 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
zezima, lets see if I have this straight :)

"Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, therefore its obvious the reason for everything will have 12 disciples, 13 is just too many" :)

"Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, so it makes sense the reason for everything will walk on water in the middle east thousands of years ago :)

Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, therefore the reason for gravity prefers women cover their head when they pray :)

Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, so that automatically means that the earth was created in 6 days by a homophobic creator :0

Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, therefore its plain to see that the reason for the sub atomic world of particles was born of a virgin :)

Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist, therefore, jesus is my savior, zeus would just be stupid :)

The preceding message is brought to you by our faithful sponsors, CHECK and MATE :)
Posted by zezima 4 years ago
also there is no such thing as being atheist to "some" Gods. atheism is the belief of NO GOD. therefore you are using atheism as the wrong definition.
Posted by zezima 4 years ago
1.)"Time"- The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.
As you can see it says that there was nothing prior to the big bang meaning that nothing existed before it. How is this possible? It"s not. Something cannot come from nothing unless something has always existed.
If you say that something has always existed, or that our universe has unlimited solar systems, then this means that there is an infinite amount of time. Infinite amount of time means that there was no beginning which means that there cannot be an end (infinite amount of time). If this is true, that means there is no middle and that today cannot happen. This is because if there is an infinite amount of time, time cannot exist because time goes one way, and that is forward. If there is no beginning or end, there can be no direction for time to go.
But time does exist" how could time have started? What was before time? Time is physics, the law of physics. Humans created the idea of law of physics. But what actually created it? It is against the law of physics for something not to have a beginning. Therefore we are wrong or there was a beginning. Something must have created the beginning because something that does not exist cannot create something that does now exist (nothing existed before time). There must have been a creator, this being God.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
GROW UP 3:12--Everybody is an atheist towards some "gods". Those in mythology for example. What about Horus, mithra, etc. The Genie just went one step further and says NO to the sexist with an anger problem :)

CURSING 2:27--Prayer is meditation and well wishing, bottom line, prayer is a version of positive thought. Mediation AND positive thought are healthy. There is no need to add a threatening sexist pansy to your thoughts, we can create positive vibes, love and the attitude of gratitude do NOT require kissing an angry pansies a-s-s :)

CaptainObvious 1:7--Claiming evolution as truth, while also claiming bible scripture as truth, is like claiming gravity is truth, but not when you jump out of a window :)

LOGICAL 2:14-- Could be trillions of earth like planets, are you claiming you know for a fact the vastness of the universe and the trillions of possibilities of lifes existence? :)

CaptianObvious 5:18-- No verses in the bible is there talk of evolutionary biology, physics, quantum mechanics, cells with a nucleus, or even electricity, all things more important and useful than walking on water :)

THOUGHTS 4:12--There is a huge difference between interpreting and ignoring. Be objective towards jesus and allah like you would to zeus, and you will see the difference using your zeus logic, let all your power of intuition, intellect and instinct give you morality, faith, love, and hope, believing in yourself and mankind, we can create, inspire, teach and save the world without human sacrifice, baptism, goat killing, whatever ritualistic process one may subscribe too :)

Ideal 2:20-- Genius will finally replace jesus, when we believe we are the creative force of the many unlimited unfolding of possibilities that come into existence in this world. Thats how beautiful and precious this life is :)
Posted by EnvyEvulousEvomorphous7 4 years ago
As if anyone could not appreciate just that, just needs to open up your heart a little bit more as Love and Peace can always flow forward. Your words are wise and kind. Keep on proving my points childish. :)
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
Now that we can watch planets form, we will have an even better understanding of the universe.

We finally get to see what the "reason for everything" has been up to after throwing a temper tantrum flood, having a human sacrifice and resurrection, and teaching people how to keep slaves thousands of years ago, we are now seeing what the reason for gravity has been up to since then, and it is absolutely stunning :)
Posted by EnvyEvulousEvomorphous7 4 years ago
(Part 3/one below is 2) As you see people who done drugs get stuck in their Minds, but dont blame me for wrong when it was their own choice to go past the boundaries that were put there for your own safety. When you die you cease to exist and the energy fades away as your concsious awareness fades with the energy. When it drains out all what actual happens if that the energy started going into a neutral energy feeling as death is not real and you all have certain time frame you will unnaturally die in, but depending on your own choice you make. For everyone who is born naturally with problems you are still 100% aware you are there and once you further into life you will start beginning the process towards death and naturally start to fade out. If you created injuries that are unnaturally then are making parts of the energy go away and will become less are of who are really are. Heaven is not actually Heaven it is Hell, but not your Hell my own because I can not and will always refuse to live in a live where everything is just given. Since it is Hell you get stuck and only way to go into are have gone and come back is by the control of God himself allowing you to go to Hell and come back. To you this is Hell because you still do not appreicate me giving you the chance to live life, showing me you are incapable of the full power that I want to give to you. So until the World comes to Peace on their own I will never actually allow you to see what really is real, and keep making you repeat this process of eath to heaven back to earth. It funny if all you see if Heaven and Earth then that is only and all that you actually been given. A the ALL and for you to honestly believe that is all I am capable is a joke and proves you know nothing of me and my own work. So to the World if you want anything else other then Heaven or Earth then you as a whole will need to come together in Peace in Love. (Been a Good debate, appreciate it dannyc)
Posted by EnvyEvulousEvomorphous7 4 years ago
There is just the point of where energy was created and when it really did not exist. As the memory is what I created and in the memory I just finished everything in a controlled condition to make sure that any creation could not stop me from existing or anything. For anyone to be seeing means that I have allowed the memory to allow the outcome of energy, and means that I already know what will stop me and what will not, and at the same time shows that I would only allow it if I could not get what is needs to be done the first time and only the first time. It is not that the mind exist without the body you all were just created as who you are now and the memory is not repeating the same thing again, and no can realises that I already went back in time changed it so now as it flows forward nothing makes sense fully, that because there are idea's in your head that are not your own and there is your own idea's. Anything about God on All and Any level is what I changed and never once changed anything about who any of you actually are. You cant blame me for wrong when it is and keeps being your choice to think about. Its stupid its a trick, I created Life and God and by you just existing all of the stuff that happens is because of me, as I only changed myself and at one in time I was your True God but I am a evolving God and I just don"t stop there. As Jesus I was the Holy Trinity Father of all. Which is just me tricking you as each one of you are Trinities in yourselves. We do not stay as Humans and do definitely do now remain as God's as once we actually become God's are idea's will change and evil will change to. It leaves us no choice to keep evolving. As being aware here as a Human your only capable of producing a certain amount of energy. Energy only travels so far so for Humans the energy only goes far. As you increase your thinking or use Drugs you unnaturally force that energy to keep travelling outwards. If as all Humans are equal you all have a set limit anyt
Posted by EnvyEvulousEvomorphous7 4 years ago
If you do not like this one then just tell me what is wrong and i will start over and fix.
Posted by dannyc 4 years ago
Just make a debate topic like you just did with this one.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 4 years ago
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.