The Instigator
PowerPikachu21
Pro (for)
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The Contender
abc123jendunee
Con (against)
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FNAF: 2 killers?

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/21/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 402 times Debate No: 81268
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

PowerPikachu21

Pro

I believe there are 2 Purple Guys in the Five Nights at Freddy's Franchise. For reference's sake, we'll give them names.

Hacker/Fritz Smith : He hacks the animatronics to attack the Security Guards.

Killer/Phone Guy : He's the one that killed the 11 kids.

If Con can prove at least one of these points, he wins:

- Whether Phone Guy is Fritz Smith

- Either Fritz Smith or Phone Guy is innocent

(If Con has a different idea, say so either in the comments, or Round 1.)

Here's the rules:

1) Be nice.

2a) Any valid source (FNAF wiki, MatPat, or anything else) is okay.

2b) invalid sources include: Fan Made games or trailers. (Ex: Return to Freddy's)

3) Forfeiting counts as an instant loss.

4) Con may choose one of the 2 points I described. If he/she is able to prove both points, that's okay (although very tricky). Con may not switch stances after his/her Round 2 argument.

Here's how the rounds will go:

Round 1: Con may choose his stance of either Fritz is Phone Guy, or one of the two are NOT one of the Purple Men. (Con can wait until round 2 to choose which point to make) Con may also ask any questions if needed. Con can say 1 sentence to prove his/her point if he/she wants to.

Round 2: We will present why our position is correct. If Con hasn't chosen a point to make, he'd better find which one would suit him/her best.

Round 3 & 4: We (Con and myself) will refute the opponent's arguments and rebuttals.

Round 5: We will sum up our arguments. I may refute Con's final claims, which Con can try to explain.

With that said, I welcome anybody to accept this debate.
abc123jendunee

Con

Well as it seems, you are a FNAF fan as well. I find it quite interesting and so I will debate on the topic.

My belief is that Fritz Smith is innocent.
Due to the burden of proof, you must state why he is not.
THIS: https://www.youtube.com... Further proves my point.
Debate Round No. 1
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Here's my theory about how BOTH Fritz Smith and Phone Guy are accomplices:

In FNAF 2, after the closing of the 1st Fazbear's Pizzaria, the animatronics are able to detect any criminals, such as Phone Guy! So he hires Fritz Smith to hack into the animatronics as the first Night Guard. Fritz Smith then leaves the job, now working as a day shift guard, as Phone Guy says; "Uh, the first guy finished his week, but complained about... conditions. Uh, we switched him over to the day shift". By "conditions" he means "the animatronics were coming into Fritz Smith's office". Phone Guy also states "So while our engineers don't really have an explanation for this, the working theory is that... the robots were never given a proper 'night mode'." When it gets quiet (night time; 12 AM), they "think they're in the wrong room" so they try to find the people (your office). If they just thought they were in the "wrong room", why are they more active every night?

Some actual evidence pointing to Fritz being a hacker is, obviously, he's in the custom night. Yeah, I said he's the first night guard, but Fritz Smith decided to do the night shift again. Notice how Phone Guy doesn't call. This means that Fritz Smith already knows how to handle the animatronics (ignore the fact that the Player is doing the nights, and not Fritz as a sentient character that chooses his own actions) because either A) he has been the night guard before or B) he hacked the animatronics to attack someone who's not an animatronic.

Now for Phone Guy himself; MatPat already confirmed this: https://www.youtube.com...

But, of course, I'll repeat what MatPat said: (Aside from the Purple Guy in the SAVETHEM minigame, as, like I've said, it's a hacking device) Phone Guy loves Foxy, and Purple Guy is in the Foxy minigame, smiling (I know this statement is my weakest to accuse Phone Guy, but it's still a thing!). He's the only person who knows about the "safe room", which is invisible to the animatronics and has no camera installed. He also knows how to safely use the spring lock suits, as well as knowing they were hidden in the safe room. He could've easily went in there and grabbed the Springtrap suit, and lured in the children. (There's more, but I'll stop there)

I would like Con to elaborate on why Fritz Smith isn't working with Phone Guy. (Rebuttals will be in round 3. Con will only show why Fritz isn't the hacker)
abc123jendunee

Con

With the burden of proof, the best I can do is state common misconceptions of why Fritz Smith not working with phone guy.
Your theory on how the Phone guy hires Fritz Smith is wrong is not true because there is no evidence that:
1. Phone guy has some sort of position of power
2. The 'other guy' is Fritz Smith. (Why would he accept coming back to night shift and night 7?)

The reason why there is no night 7 call is as you can see:
"Hello? Hello...uh...what on earth are you doing there, uh didn"t you get the memo, uh, the place is closed down, uh, at least for a while. Someone used one of the suits. We had a spare in the back, a yellow one, someone used it...now none of them are acting right. Listen j-just finish your shift it"s safer than trying to leave in the middle of the night. Uh we have one more event scheduled for tomorrow, a birthday. You"ll be on day shift, wear your uniform, stay close to the animatronics, make sure they don"t hurt anyone okay, uh for now just make it through the night, uh when the place eventually opens again I"ll probably take the night shift myself. Okay, good night and good luck."
The place is supposed to be shut down or at least out of limits, and the Phone guy is probably assigned to instruct you.

I will be able to say more in the rebuttals, but thats it for now
Debate Round No. 2
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Now I'll refute Con's round 2 argument.

Con's points on why Fritz can't be working with Phone Guy:

1. "Phone guy has no position of power, therefore he can't hire Fritz as an accomplice" By "hire", I didn't mean "as an employee", I meant "as an accomplice as a hacker". (Phone Guy was the instructor for the employees of the Fazbear's Pizza before FNAF 2 took place. Irrelevant, but just to show he did have a decent ranking at one point)

2. "No evidence of the 2nd person being Fritz Smith" In Night 7 (Custom Night), the player is Fritz Smith, and you can "change the difficulty setting of the animatronics", in other words "hacking the animatronics". Also, can you prove that the Purple Guy from the "SAVETHEM" minigame isn't holding a hacking device? You could claim it's a phone, but that's illogical, as I've said numerous times: Why would you attack an animatronic with a phone over a hacking device?

NOTE: Con DID link a video in Round 1, but hadn't quoted how Fritz Smith isn't a hacker, according to MatPat. (MatPat said "Fritz and Jeremy [the other guard in nights 1 - 6] can't be the KILLER Purple Guy". "Killer", not "Hacker".)

Now for the lack of the Night 7 call...

But Fritz Smith WAS there in Night 7; being the 3rd Night Guard, after Jeremy. Phone Guy said, and I quote "Uh we have one more event scheduled for tomorrow, a birthday. You'll be on day shift". Day shift! Jeremy was the 2nd night shift guard, Fritz Smith is the 3rd. Why would there be a 3rd night shift guard if it closed down that day, let alone a day shift guard at a birthday party?

Con also didn't explain why Fritz didn't need Phone Guy to know that the mask tricks the animatronics, you have to wind up the music box, and the fact that the mask wouldn't work on foxy, and he must be flashed with the flashlight.

Let's hear Con's full rebuttal.
abc123jendunee

Con

The reason for Jeremy moving to the day is likely because the previous guard got BIT! (Scott teased on one of MatPat's theories that the Bite in FNAF 4 may or may not be the one on 1983)

Fritz Smith is also fired for; to quote: "tampering with the animatronics" and "odor". This may lead people to assume he is 'hacking' purple man, but you must remember that by the end of the custom night in FNAF1 Mike is also fired, the reasons listed for his release are "tampering with the animatronics," "general unprofessionalism," and "odor." "This is believed to be in reference to the player's changing of the A.I. difficulty from 0 to 20, panicking and possible screaming, and copious sweating or release of bodily fluids, possibly due to panicking, respectively."

The same applies to Fritz Smith as well. Some may say this AI tampering is what purple guy did to Freddy, but you must remember that you can set the AI of ALL the animatronics, and if it was really what purple guy did, then it would be illogical as you can raise AI as well.

Also, why would phone guy not do it himself? He is, by far, the longest employee in the FNAF timeline, (He was there in the original Fazbear's Pizzeria.) and he should be much better than Fritz Smith at 'hacking'.

Chances are, Fritz Smith is a filler character, just used to emphasis the fact that Jeremy is gone to Day shift, You can see that Scott didn't use much effort into his name, Jeremy FITZgerald + Mike SCHMIDT = Fritz Smith. (Not really much evidence but still)
Debate Round No. 3
PowerPikachu21

Pro

"The reason for Jeremy moving to the day is likely because the previous guard got BIT!" Uhh... What does this prove?

" by the end of the custom night in FNAF1 Mike is also fired, the reasons listed for his release are 'tampering with the animatronics,' " True, there was a custom night in FNAF 1, but Mike appeared in all of the nights. If he had a hacking device with him before starting the shift, why didn't he start hacking the animatronics starting night 1 or 2? That's what I would've done if I were him, since it's logical not to wait until a Night 7. I'd say he FOUND Fritz Smith's hacking device.

In FNAF 1, Night 4, Phone Guy says "Uh, hey, do me a favor. Maybe sometime, uh, you could check inside those suits in the back room?" He says to check the back room (probably the safe room). We also know that Phone Guy's calls are recordings for a "summer job", even though it's November. When Fritz attacked/hacked the animatronics in FNAF 3, he was attacked by the ghosts of the 5 children, making him run around in panic, and eventually, dies in Springtrap. Mike finds Fritz Smith's hacking device, long after Smith has died in Springtrap. Fritz would've hid the device in a corner under the desk, so Mike wouldn't have found it in the first 5 nights, since he has to keep a close eye on the animatronics, so he doesn't have time to search under the desk. Phone guy tells you to go to the safe room so Springtrap can attack the player in FNAF 3, and (possibly) destroy any evidence that could lead to Phone Guy's arrest.

"Also, why would phone guy not do it himself?" "he should be much better then Fritz at hacking" I hope your not resorting to the "phone" here.

Do we know Fritz Smith before he took the Custom Night shift? We don't. Was Phone Guy an employee since the 1st Fazbear's Pizza? He was. Is there any evidence of Phone Guy being a hacker? No, there is not. In conclusion; Con's point here is kinda shaky when you think about it. Con must prove that Phone Guy is able to hack the animatronics, and Fritz Smith did not hack the animatronics before his shift in FNAF 2.

"Chances are, Fritz Smith is a filler character, just used to emphasis the fact that Jeremy is gone to Day shift" Of course you would claim that he's filler. You should know Scott Cawthon is sneaky. He hides evidence in his later (FNAF 2 -> FNAF 3) games. We thought perhaps the Crying Child possessed The Puppet, but in the FNAF 3 "puppet" minigame, your a boy that wears a Puppet mask, and you walk towards a group of kids, which includes the Crying Child, who turns into a Golden Freddy mask after you give the cake.

My conclusion: Con's last 2 points were kind of weak, I'd say. Con seems to now be resorting to accusing Mike Schmidt being the hacker, as well as claim Phone Guy knows how to hack the animatronics.

- Can Con prove that Mike has hacked the FNAF 2 animatronics? Remember that the "SAVETHEM" Purple Guy is wearing a badge, meaning that he's a Night Guard. Mike hasn't been working at the place until the events of FNAF 1.

- Is Con able to prove that Phone Guy is able to, or ever has, hack the animatronics?

I await your response.
abc123jendunee

Con

"Uhh... What does this prove?" I proves that Fritz Smith might not be the 2nd FNAF2 guard, after Phone guy.

" I hope your not resorting to the "phone" here." I'm not. If your theory is true, chance are Phone Guy was the one instructing Fritz Smith. It is shown during phone calls when he is proved to have great knowledge on animatronics, especially the spring lock variety.

Based on 'https://en.wikipedia.org...', it is evident that that this so called 'hacking device' is some remote disabler, which is useful to have after the previous 'incidents' at Fazbaer's. Something to change the AI, however would not really be useful. Remote Disabling is NOT AI hacking. You still didn't answer. "The same applies to Fritz Smith as well. Some may say this AI tampering is what purple guy did to Freddy, but you must remember that you can set the AI of ALL the animatronics, and if it was really what purple guy did, then it would be illogical as you can raise AI as well."

"In FNAF 1, Night 4, Phone Guy says "Uh, hey, do me a favor. Maybe sometime, uh, you could check inside those suits in the back room?" He says to check the back room (probably the safe room). We also know that Phone Guy's calls are recordings for a "summer job", even though it's November. When Fritz attacked/hacked the animatronics in FNAF 3, he was attacked by the ghosts of the 5 children, making him run around in panic, and eventually, dies in Springtrap. Mike finds Fritz Smith's hacking device, long after Smith has died in Springtrap. Fritz would've hid the device in a corner under the desk, so Mike wouldn't have found it in the first 5 nights, since he has to keep a close eye on the animatronics, so he doesn't have time to search under the desk. Phone guy tells you to go to the safe room so Springtrap can attack the player in FNAF 3, and (possibly) destroy any evidence that could lead to Phone Guy's arrest."
Phone dude in FNAF3 states that the room was boarded up, and this death happens AFTER the place shuts down, evident by the mice and leaking ceiling. Additionally, Fritz gets fired at the end of FNAF 2 and is not able to go to FNAF1's place, as far as we know. You claim my points are weak when you say 'Fritz would've hid the device in a corner under the desk' which is 100% speculation.

My final theory is that every employee is taught to change AI and remotely disable, which is logical when it comes to the previous incidences, and the fact that Mike could hack too. Why would he choose night 7? Well it make sense gameplay wise, and also because nights 1 - 4 had phone guy, who comforts Mike to hear another human in this nightmare. Night 5, phone guy might not be dead, but the garble says otherwise, then night 6 comes, the hardest one by far, he decides just to go it on night 7. (Heeding Phone guys warning about being more active as week goes on)
Debate Round No. 4
PowerPikachu21

Pro

My rebuttal:

1: "I proves that Fritz Smith might not be the 2nd FNAF2 guard, after Phone guy. Because the 1st guard got BIT!"

... Phone Guy the FNAF 2 night guard? What are you talking about? Phone Guy was a DAY shift guard at that time. According to the wiki, "Phone Guy seems to be genuinely comfortable with working at his job and doesn't seem to be concerned about the animatronics being hostile. This is likely because he was working the day shift during the time, and did not truly understand the danger until taking over the night watch." And here's the obvious order of the night guards:

1st Night Guard (Fritz Smith) -> Jeremy Fitzgerald -> Fritz Smith

Who said anything about Phone Guy being a night shift guard in FNAF 2? I said FRITZ was before Jeremy, not Phone Guy.

"the previous guard got BIT!" This statement is irrelevant. So what if that guard got bit? Assuming that Fritz was not the 1st night shift guard who was transferred to day shift... I do not get it. There's also no proof (like the statement is relevant anyways) that Fritz Smith was bitten. Con will have to elaborate on what this point exactly proves and how it is relevant, because I'm not sure if that even matters. If I still find it irrelevant, I will say so in the comments.

2: "Fritz Smith the (not) hacker."

"If your theory is true, chance are Phone Guy was the one instructing Fritz Smith." Oh. Sorry for forgetting a detail. I meant Fritz Smith was already a hacker, not that Phone Guy was teaching him how to hack.

" he [Phone Guy] is proved to have great knowledge on animatronics, especially the spring lock variety." Can't argue that Phone Guy did know how to handle the animatronics in FNAF 2. However, spring locks don't need to be hacked. I see how the spring lock suits would be relevant here, as Phone Guy knows about these, however, no need to hack them.

3: "remote disabler"

I'm sorry, but where did it say "remote disabler" on that Wikipedia page? I looked at where it may be located, but, alas, I didn't see it (I don't really do thorough Wikipedia page scans.). I didn't look on the point you mentioned ("The same applies to Fritz Smith as well. Some may say this AI tampering is what purple guy did to Freddy, but you must remember that you can set the AI of ALL the animatronics, and if it was really what purple guy did, then it would be illogical as you can raise AI as well.") because I assumed it was a continuation of the paragraph before it, and I refuted that, so I thought that was already refuted. But, alas, I'll refute this one individually.

3.5: "Fritz the remote disabler"

Your point is? I still says it's a 2nd half of your paragraph about Mike Schmidt's hacking. " if it was really what purple guy did, then it would be illogical as you can raise AI as well." ... How would Purple Guy hacking Freddy be illogical since Fritz Smith is also hacking? This makes little sense to me.

4: Fritz Smith the Springtrap

"Fritz gets fired at the end of FNAF 2 and is not able to go to FNAF1's place" Doesn't mean that he can't sneak in there. FNAF 1's location was made with a lower budget, therefore lower possible security. He went in FNAF 2 as a night guard, so they didn't suspect the hacking (I'll still call it by that, even though it may be a 'remote disabler' thing.). In FNAF 1, they had to go on a lower budget, so the animatronics didn't have a facial recognition system that would identify Fritz as a hacker.

"You claim my points are weak when you say 'Fritz would've hid the device in a corner under the desk' which is 100% speculation." Yes, speculation... But, of course, we could assume the Hacker was Mike Schmidt all along. There would still be 2 Purple Guys. I was only explaining a possibility of how Mike would find the hacking device, allowing the possibility of Fritz being the hacker to stay.

I'd be fine if Con proved that Mike is helping Phone Guy (rather unlikely, I'd say) murder the children. That wouldn't do anything for Con's case, though. Remember the resolution: "2 Purple Guys", not "Is Fritz Smith helping Phone Guy". Again, if Con wishes to prove Mike guilty, please do! Which brings me to my 5th case...

5: Mike was the Hacker all along!

Yes, Con is proving Fritz Smith innocent, but remember the resolution: "2 Purple Guys". Con is trying to prove that Fritz isn't assisting Phone Guy, but the main thing he's trying to prove is that there is only 1 Purple Guy (that being Phone Guy). Let's look at what's causing Mike to seem like the Hacker Purple Guy:

- Con states "every employee is taught to change AI and remotely disable, which is logical when it comes to the previous incidences, and the fact that Mike could hack too." As you can see; Mike (or pretty much anybody) is taught to hack. Who knows? Some of these people were already skilled hackers.

- Con states "because nights 1 - 4 had phone guy, who comforts Mike to hear another human in this nightmare." According to this, Phone Guy is acquainted with Mike. Maybe they aren't, but they could be.

- Let's assume Fritz Smith wasn't able to sneak into Freddy Fazbear's Pizza because of the facial recognition system. Mike Schmidt was working here. The animatronics could've easily recognized him, and thus were after him.

My conclusion:

Con still hasn't explained his first point; how it's related to anything as well as how it proves anything. We also discovered the possibility of Mike being the Hacker. I may have moved the posts a bit, but the possibility of 2 Purple Men has been increased, thanks to Con.

Let's hear Con's conclusion.
abc123jendunee

Con

1. "... Phone Guy the FNAF 2 night guard? What are you talking about? Phone Guy was a DAY shift guard at that time. According to the wiki, "Phone Guy seems to be genuinely comfortable with working at his job and doesn't seem to be concerned about the animatronics being hostile. This is likely because he was working the day shift during the time, and did not truly understand the danger until taking over the night watch." "

Actually, it would be illogical to say phone guy wasn't a night shift guard, or else how would he know all the game mechanics, eg music box, freddy mask not working on foxy?

2. "Fritz Smith was already a hacker"

Well I don't really think that they have animatronic hacking classes anywhere, meaning Fritz Smith must know someone to teach him, it is unlikely that he self taught due to the complexity of the animatronics.

3. "I'm sorry, but where did it say "remote disabler" on that Wikipedia page? I looked at where it may be located, but, alas, I didn't see it (I don't really do thorough Wikipedia page scans.)."

It doesn't. The point of the link to to provide background on have animatronics function, to which I made my conclusion.

3.5. "Your point is? I still says it's a 2nd half of your paragraph about Mike Schmidt's hacking. " if it was really what purple guy did, then it would be illogical as you can raise AI as well." ... How would Purple Guy hacking Freddy be illogical since Fritz Smith is also hacking? This makes little sense to me."

If Freddy Hacker is Fritz Smith, why would he, on night 7 (Possibly) tamper with the animatronics to raise AI?

4. You still did not answer about the 'after FNAF1's pizzeria was abandoned point".

5. -Con states "every employee is taught to change AI and remotely disable, which is logical when it comes to the previous incidences, and the fact that Mike could hack too." As you can see; Mike (or pretty much anybody) is taught to hack. Who knows? Some of these people were already skilled hackers.

I doubt that anyone had previous experience with animatronics there.

-Con states "because nights 1 - 4 had phone guy, who comforts Mike to hear another human in this nightmare." According to this, Phone Guy is acquainted with Mike. Maybe they aren't, but they could be.

I mean the phone calls.

Anyways, it has been a great debate, and thanks a lot
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by abc123jendunee 1 year ago
abc123jendunee
I mean the specific events and minigames
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Eh, the chronological order's figured out. (FNAF 4 -> FNAF 2 -> FNAF 1 -> FNAF 3) Except for FNAF 4's trailer; "What have you brought home?" This implies it might come after FNAF 3, but the game itself (mainly the minigames) suggests it's in that (^ earlier in my comment) place in the timeline, before FNAF 2.
Posted by abc123jendunee 1 year ago
abc123jendunee
Lol. At least we can agree that the FNAF timeline is pretty darn confusing
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Good game. I'm not sure who will win. (When you vote, make sure you're not being vague. Bad: "Con had better arguments." Good: "Con easily refuted Pro's claims, so Arguments to them".)
No votes have been placed for this debate.