The Instigator
U_Wot_M8
Pro (for)
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The Contender
alric8
Con (against)
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Fans of Football Teams in Eng. and Wales should be able to oust owners

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 416 times Debate No: 73195
Debate Rounds (3)
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U_Wot_M8

Pro

As a Coventry City fan living in an area dominated by Cardiff City fans, I know first hand how owners can ruin football clubs. I believe that the FA should make it a rule that if X amount of fans (obviously varies on the size of the club and level of football) of a particular club sign a petition to oust the owner of their club the owner could be ousted. This type of rule could have prevented the disastrous reigns of Vincent Tan at Cardiff, SISU at Coventry and many other owners at other clubs.
alric8

Con

I'm all for fans stopping their clubs from being 'commercialised' as such, but I don't think a simple petition from fans should be able to make such changes. More would have to be done. A certain board that includes a mixture of people who will be concerned with the financial, cultural and corporate aspects of the club have to be elected by the fans. Then the board can purpose ousting the owner. The board make the final decision. This will mean some consideration will be put into the case. Getting fans (of which many may be glory hunters if this is a club of any size) to absentmindedly sign a petition will make fans less happy as they will be churning through owners faster than Vincent tan can sack Malky Mackay. Fans have, when had the choice, often been in favour of changing managers. This has occured even in clubs like Manchester United and Swansea who traditionally don't fire managers. For the few unlucky clubs who do have ownership problems I think fans' actions won't greatly differ. Football is a business that deals with high amounts of money - new players coming to a certain country may provide economic benefits similar to those of a similarly priced infrastructure project - and having a Manx2 style spaghetti network of payers that you isn't properly governed is a big problem that could very well happen if we football fans aren't careful and importantly, patient. Being impatient won't reduce your chances of relegation.
Debate Round No. 1
U_Wot_M8

Pro

Granted it would have to be a vary large number of the fans relative to the size of the club. However my club, Coventry, have been calling for SISU to go since we were a Mid-Table Championship side, now we are a barely surviving League 1 Team. This was largely due to SISU bleeding us dry and putting us over 60 million pounds in debt. If we had had the power to kick them out we may have at leased bounced back to the championship provided we had decent owners after SISU. We would have certainly avoided having to play in Northampton for over a year. At the end of the day the fans are who matter in a football club, they are the backbone, cheese off the fans and your administration becomes unsustainable.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net... (Admittedly a biased source, but the words of an ex-chairman nether the less)
alric8

Con

That consolidates my proposal. The board is voted by fans [1] and since it would be more powerful people (some fans themselves) SISU (or equivalent) - would be ousted with no argument. SISU saved Coventry with 20 minutes to spare [2]. Fans could exploit it so they are saved from administration and then immediately oust they're saviours. With relocation, I feel your pain. I support Barnet F.C. who have also been relocated, but surely, if Coventry fans can oust SISU to keep playing where they want Barnet fans should be able to oust John Prescott. I wish! Your idea is not regulated enough, in fact, I'd argue it is hypocritical to try and use such an unruly solution but I'm not because SISU really do go beyond definition. But not all owners of football clubs are SISU [3] :D. Just because the fans are unhappy with the owner it does not provide a reason for immediate ousting. Just look at Charlton Athletic [4].

By the way, can we finish this debate in BST not Weekend Standard Time. We both live in the UK (unless something worrying has happened to Cardiff) so it should not be difficult.

Sources:

1. My round 1 post.

2. http://en.m.wikipedia.org....

3. http://en.m.wikipedia.org... (the sources listed on this article, not the article its self)

4. http://www1.skysports.com... (as of April 11th)
Debate Round No. 2
U_Wot_M8

Pro

It is true that SISU saved us from administration in 2008, but if we had known what SISU would do to the club I'm sure we would have all prefered administration that year. [1] When they bought us we were "20 million in debt, a reasonably stable championship team and were averaging 17.4 thousand in attendance at home, 7 years later that debt has increased to "60 million, we are battling for survival in League 1 and are barely getting 8,000 at home. The majority being due to SISU and their handling of the rent crisis. [2]
Yes fans could exploit it, but what would be the use in kicking out a new owner without giving them a reasonable chance to do anything. This would only give the club a bad reputation among potential owners and put them off a potential purchase. For someone as crucial as an owner I'm sure they would have to do something really bad to annoy the fans enough to warrant being ousted. Coventry were forced to move 35 miles away to Northampton by SISU, despite opposition from the start by practically everyone in the club, league, FA and city. As for the reference to Prescot, yes it was a very poor decision that shouldn't have happened, however he was not a part of the club and was an external factor. Many football owners are good, I agree, but you look at how many ex-premiership clubs are in the lower leagues, Coventry, Portsmouth, Sheffield United, Blackpool, Preston. Many of these were top premiership clubs hindered by mismanagement and financial woes, especially Pompey and Coventry. All have big enough potential fan bases to support a premiership team, but the people at the top let the clubs down. [3]
Yes, and it is a decision not to be taken lightly, and I would hope if something like what I'm suggesting were to ever be put in place it would only be used in dire circumstances (e.g. Coventry and Pompey) and not taken lightly. Its like that old saying, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Sorry about the timing thingy, this was my first debate, so I'm still getting used to the layout and setup, anyway I think this is my last entry, so thank you for debating with me :)

Sources:
[1] http://fsf.org.uk...
[2] http://www.theguardian.com...
[3] http://www.bbc.co.uk...
alric8

Con

GMT FTW!

PRO has correctly stated that the exploit will always put off future owners [1]. But couldn't there be false fans, and glory hunters. Imagine at the end of this season 'Roman Abramovich is ousted - by Arsenal fans. There is honestly no more to say. A board would have ousted SISU exactly in the same way fans would, yet without gaining any kind of bad reputation for ousting owners.

Thank you for debating with me and regardless of method, I hope one day for SISU to be " thing of the past.
Debate Round No. 3
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