The Instigator
blackprtzl
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX
Con (against)
Tied
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Fantastic Four (2015) will be a successful movie.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/27/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 475 times Debate No: 74281
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

blackprtzl

Pro

Upcoming summer action-comic movie Fantastic Four is about to hit the theatres. Despite a world-wide known story, the movie gets a lot of criticism due to the previous 2 movies, which are considered to be a total waste of time and money. I therefore want to challenge one of those, who disagrees with my opinion, that Fantastic Four due to various and many reasons will be a successful movie of 2015.
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX

Con

No, I do not believe that Fantastic Four (the 2015 release) will be an unsuccessful movie, based on the already mounting evidence against it. As you said, the previous movies were considered to be a total waste of time and money, so why would this one be any different? Also, there is a whole new cast, so the people who watched the other two movies and liked the cast as they were will most likely not watch nor enjoy this one.
Debate Round No. 1
blackprtzl

Pro

First of all, may I suggest for you to revise what you have said, as you wrote that you do not belive it will be an unsuccessful movie? However, I think I do understand you stand point.

In this round I will adress all of your points and will try to counter argue them. So here we start.

1. Previous movies have been considered a total waste of time and money. That is true, however, is it really wise to conclude that because of previous movies, that only share the story with the new one, the new one is doomed to fail? Oh, I said doomed. Well that is ironic. Anyway, back on track. We have evidence, where a movie franchise was completely destroyed, but then rebooted by people, with compeltely different takes on it, which took those movies to the whole new level. Amongst such examples are the terrible Batman Forever (1995) and even worse Batman and Robin (1997). However, somewhat 8 years later Christopher Nolan brings the bat out of the cave back to shine on the theater screens, adn what is the result? On of the best trilogies in the history of the cinema. Therefore, I think we should not consider previous movies at all - it has been 8 years, it is completely new people and completely new ideas.

2. New cast. It is true, that the characters were not so terrible in the old franchise. Escpecially totally han-made appearance of the Things was impressive to observe. However, can we really hold on to the old cast forever? Eventually, no matter how amazing actor is, we will need to let other talents come in and take their place - that is how the world works. And I must say that the cast that is about to take over this drowning ship are probably the best of their layer. To start with Mr Fantastic, we have Miles Teller, who at the age of 28 years already showed us his brilliance in Whiplash (2014). I do not even need to elaborate on him, as I have no doubts for him to show us a charming, nerdy, yet firm and balanced scientists Reed Richards. Next on the list we have Kate Mara, who people mostly know from the top quality TV show House of Cards (2013 - ). She is a great actress, and she does bring one of the best performaces to the TV show, which makes me hope she will do great at portraying a 'balance force of the Fantastic Four'. To play Johnny Storm the moviemakers decided to pick Michael B. Jordan. We have already seen in him playing a 'superhero' alike character in the not so famous movie 'Chronicle' (2012), which by the way is brought by the same director of this movie - Josh Trank. I do not know about people who watched it, but I personally I think that he did great at his job. His charcter, who was a famous rich boy, who loved attention, and was forced to revise his morals and actions due to superpowers, is very much alike the trouble that Human Torch will have to go through. Thus, solid evidence here. Next on the list is Jamie Bell. Mr Bell is probably the most established actor out of the famous quartet. He already managed to perform in such famous movies as 'The adventures of Tin Tin' (2011), 'Filth' (2013), 'Snowpiercer' (2013), 'King Kong' (2005). All these movies quite do differ, as well as his characters. He dealt extremely well with all of them, and showed his ability to be diverse and deep at the same time. As we have seen from the Snowpiercer, he can portray a tough guy, who must make some serious decisions, therefore I believe, basing on that, he will do well with the Thing.

Now, I know I have talked plenty of the cast, so there is just one more person I want to mention. It is the main vilain - Toby Kebbell. Toby Kebbell, as for me, should plainly be considered only for his amazing performace in Guy Richi's crime comedy 'Rock'n'Rolla' (2008). Kebbell played a unballanced, freaky and crazy junkie, who had no sense of conscience whatsoever. At the same time, he managed to portray a cunning character, who turned the whole plot upside down. His perfomance in that movie can essentially be takes as a promo to his villain character in Fantastic Four. He is the reason I am most excited for this movie.

Now I hand over to you.
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX

Con

I apologize for my lack of clarity, I was proofreading and read, "I believe it will be a successful movie" so I changed it to "an unsuccessful". I shall do the same as you have done and attempt to counter-argue your points.
1. Reboot that will be successful. This one could be successful, but I doubt it, because the first one became a classic. It's, in my opinion, like them redoing the famous movie Red Dawn (1984) with the whole new cast, starring some A-list actors, such as Chris Hemsworth, Josh Peck, and Josh Hutcherson. They were all great actors before this movie, but the original is so well-known and great that the reboot was doomed from the beginning, with an instant comparison between the 2012 version and the 1984 version. At that point, it would be like remaking the Karate Kid (1984), which they already attempted, and failed, according to IMDb's star rating, with the original and remake getting 7.2 and 6.2 respectively. Another example is Robocop, which got a rating of 7.5 for the original (1987) version, and a 6.3 rating for the reboot (2014).

Another reason it will most likely be a flop at the box office is because of the people who have seen the original and loved it, like myself. People don't like remakes of movies that they like, as such was illustrated by the Karate Kid, Red Dawn, and Robocop remakes, along with the remake of Annie and (most likely) Dirty Dancing. If someone were to remake a movie with an amazing cast, such as the movie Die Hard (1988), people would say that it will be a total failure, and, like a self-fulfilling destiny, it shall be.

My final point for this round is that it is too soon to make a remake of this movie. If you look at most of the reboots, they have the original from 1980 and earlier. It is too soon to make a remake of the movie to be released for this year, because everyone still remembers the old ones, unlike the batman movies, which everyone disliked. Just last year, I remember watching the original movie Fantastic Four on the TV channel FX and loving every minute of it. If it's still playing on the TV and getting a large audience, then there should be no reason for a reboot.

Now, I hand the baton back to you.
Debate Round No. 2
blackprtzl

Pro

Thank you for your argument.

First thing I want to say in this round is that your line up of examples of movies, reboots of which have failed are totally irrelevant here. The reason is because original movies like Red Dawn, Karate Kid, RoboCop were successful in the box office and audinece favour. Not only they have solid ratings on imdb, but they managed to beat their own budget at least twice. Fantastic four, both movies were a total failure in the box offices, and I do not know anyone, apart form 10 years old kids, who would state that they enjoyed every minute of Fantastic Four. That is, of course, my pesonal opinion, but even judgin on review given by such top critics like the Guardian, the Hollywood reporter and the Wire make me feel confident that those movies are not worth of spending 4 hours on them.

In terms of making a reboot too soon, I do not think it is relevant. Reboot is oftenly mistaken for its definition. This is a completely new tone for the movie. Old fantastic four movies were comedy/dumb action genre, whether here we get a pretty serious toned story, of four people, who actually struggle to embrace the drastical change that fell upon them. Therefore, If the story was the same, that i would agree, that the gap between the original and reboot is of the essense, but here it is simply not the case.

I agree, that actors possibly could let us all down. However, directors of reboots of RoboCop, Karate Kid, Red Dawn were directors, who did not even manage to make at least one solid movie in their career just yet. But for this new movie, we have Josh Trank, who one again, brought us a very unsual touch on superheroes in his debut 'Chronicle' (2012)

Finally, I do not understand the point of your argument, where you said:"Another reason it will most likely be a flop at the box office is because of the people who have seen the original and loved it, like myself. People don't like remakes of movies that they like, as such was illustrated by the Karate Kid, Red Dawn, and Robocop remakes, along with the remake of Annie and (most likely) Dirty Dancing. If someone were to remake a movie with an amazing cast, such as the movie Die Hard (1988), people would say that it will be a total failure, and, like a self-fulfilling destiny, it shall be."

I mean, people may not like the idea of the reboot, but I am pretty sure, that all of those people will still go and see it. Success of the movie does not depend, on whether people like the idea of it being made. People were complaining about Heath Ledger taking over from the classic accurate joker portrayed by Jack Nicholson - and yet, it turned out pretty well.

End of the round.
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX

Con

XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
blackprtzl

Pro

blackprtzl forfeited this round.
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX

Con

XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
blackprtzl

Pro

blackprtzl forfeited this round.
XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX

Con

XxPu55yD357r0y3r69xX forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
Please define Great.
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