The Instigator
William.Burnham
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Pariah.Ragnarok
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Far Cry 4: Pagan Min Was Actually The Good Guy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 610 times Debate No: 79739
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

William.Burnham

Pro

1st round for acceptance. Con will argue that King Min deserved to be removed from power, AND that at least one of the alternatives (Amita or Sabal) would have done a better job at ruling the people of Kyrat.

May Pagan's light shine upon you.
Pariah.Ragnarok

Con

I accept your conditions, game on.
Debate Round No. 1
William.Burnham

Pro

The conflict started in the 1980s. A bitter civil war was ravaging Kyrat after the royal family was killed by rebels, Pagan Min arrived and alongside the royalists established peace. Mohan Gale, the founder of the golden path terrorist group, wanted power for himself and plunged the country of Kyrat back into civil war. Ishwari, his loyal wife, wanted to fight as well, but was repeatedly ignored by Mohan. Eventually, in retaliation for her requests, Mohan sent Ishwari to spy on Pagan, even making her bring their infant son. Ishwari was by all accounts very intelligent, and quickly realized that Pagan wasn't the tyrant that her husband had made him out to be. She and Pagan fell in love, and had a daughter named Lakshama. During this time, she convinced Pagan to send students for medical training and hold real peace talks with the rebels. It was too much for Mohan, who murdered Lakshama, and even tried to murder Ishwari as well. That's the foundation of the golden path. Real Peaceful.
Pariah.Ragnarok

Con

Ok so for starters, he used to be part of the GP, he helped them fight the Royalists and then when they were on the cusp of victory he murdered the heir they planned to place on the throne and nominated himself king by divine right. He genuinely likes Ajay and refrains from killing him due to his love of Ishwari, but that doesn't mean he's not a monster that ranks pretty high up there; he even indulges in slavery if the hostage rescue is any indication.
* Kills subordinates for minor failures.
* Originally worked with the Golden Path but betrayed them.
* Banned Kyrat's native religions because they competed with his own glory.
* Bans other stuff just for fun (literally).
* Melts down priceless ancient artifacts to make various forms of bling.
* Condones torture performed by his governors.
* Sends people to a battle-to-the-death arena for any reason he likes.
* Tells blatant lies in his guidebook.
Some people point out that the GP isn't any better due to them murdering his infant child, but I don't buy it. Sure it was horrendous, but reading Mohan's journals indicates it was during a moment of rage and he apologizes to Ajay for having to do it. Contrast Pagan and his soldiers who murder entire families by the truckload and laugh about it with no sense of remorse. Enjoyed shooting his helicopter out of the sky when he thought he could fly away. Even though I didn't know I would've killed him lol.
Debate Round No. 2
William.Burnham

Pro

Pagan Min is not a nice man, but he is still the better ruler for Kyrat.

* Pagan Min didn't help fight the royalists, he fought with them against the rebels.
* Amita and Sabal routinely execute prisoners as well, eventually they even try to assassinate each other.
* Pagan Min NEVER worked with the golden path, they were formed AFTER Pagan took control.
* Amita also wants to completely ban religion while Sabal wants to treat women like property and plunge the country into a dark age.
* Sabal wants to make possession of alcohol or narcotics a penalty punishable by death, Amita wants to legalize the sale and manufacture of hardcore drugs like heroin and cocaine.
* Amita also plans to melt down the artifacts.
* They both also plan to use lethal force against civilians once in power.

At the very least both Amita and Sabal are just as bad as Pagan Min, how then can we justify the thousands of deaths necessary to replace him? Letting him rule is the kinder option for the people of Kyrat.
Pariah.Ragnarok

Con

He's got some humane qualities left in him, but even Sabal and Amita at their worst are better options than he is by a landslide. They at least TRY to help people and emphasize not being completely sadistic humans. In allot of Mohan's journals that you can find throughout the game, there are several that explain how Pagan was in fact part of the GP. I agree that Sabal would be the bad choice between him and Amita. I think Amita is yhe lesser of the three evils. She had a bad plan as far as producing illegal drugs around the country, but it's a plan none the less. Pagans plan was to give Ajay the country, then exit stage left. Not a great plan to just give a murdering psychopath the country knowing he has no political skills.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Pariah.Ragnarok 1 year ago
Pariah.Ragnarok
I must apologise, pagan min did not in fact work with the gp, rather worked with the people who would create the gp.
Posted by IsaacBigEars 1 year ago
IsaacBigEars
Amita and sabal was in charge of a TERRORIST group( the golden path)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by IsaacBigEars 1 year ago
IsaacBigEars
William.BurnhamPariah.RagnarokTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate is more or less intense. I can't judge who won. Pro explained the history of kyrat and pagan min while con explained about the three evils and rebutted pagan min. Neither used sources. All 3 are equally bad , amita is a drugger and forces citizen to work for them, sabal executes citizens as part of a 'ceremony '. And pagan min third world brothels kidnapped citizens. Pagan min definitely has no political knowledge as he gave his country to ajay ghale. Still this is a tie.