Fascism was worse then Communism
Now I want for someone to debate with me on this topic.
Greetings and good luck. This looks like an awesome debate!
Definitions: (from my computers dictionary)
worst - of the poorest quality or the lowest standard
Fascism - an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.
Communism - a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
Here is why I think that Fascism was worse than Communism.
Fascism set out to destroy the world, communism set out to make it equal. Communism believes all men were equal, whilst fascism believed its chosen race had the right to enslave and subjugate the other. Fascism was based on the concept of social Darwinism which meant the elimination of all of the perceived inferior races.
The world immediately recognized fascism as being worse than communism and set out to destroy it. The capitalistic, imperialistic and Islamic fundamentalist regimes had no qualms allying with Communism to stop the fascists, who were a much bigger threat.
Fascism was not flexible with religion but rather religion was flexible with fascism. If a denomination did not conform to and support fascism it was banned. A prime example are the Jehovah's Witnesses, who were murder by the thousands in the Nazi death camps because of their pacifist stance. Only the religions that endorsed fascism were allowed. Fascism was very rigid in its treatment of religion, not flexible at all.
Most of the people who died under communist regimes died from the failure of Communism to provide for its populace. Famine etc. In other words, it was accidental. The Communists did not set out to murder, but later found it more convenient. The fascists set out with one purpose in mind, to murder. To murder the Communists no less. The Communists were content to let the fascists live. (They did want to overcome them, but not murder.)
1. Communism killed more people
According to the famous "The Black Book of Communism" released in 1997, a good 6 years after the fall of the USSR. The book is one of the best examples of the causes and the effects are of Communism. In the book details that the total death polls of communist regimes are around 95 million. That means that 95 million people died by failed economic actions, failed political actions, by genocide, or by a war that was caused by a Communist government. The book also details that even with Holocaust and WW2 only around 50 million people died between all the fascist regimes, from Nazi Germany to Imperial Japan. Also unlike Fascism, Communist countries killed most their victims during peacetime and not for war.
2. Communism Effected more people then Fascism
Communist rule in countries started earlier then Fascist rule in 1917 with the founding of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and later the United Soviet Socialist Republics when Fascism began in 1922 when Benito Mussolini took power in Italy and ended later then Fascism. During the height of Communism, almost 2 billion people lived under a Communist or Socialist regime. Under the height of Fascism during WW2 less then 150 million where under Fascist rule. You could find a Communist regime throughout the world, from Europe to Asia and from the Americas to Africa. Fascism on the other hand highly affected Europe, Asia and bit of Africa but during Fascism height, you couldn't find any true fascist regimes in the Americas or in Africa (aside from colonies of Fascist Italy). Communism affect the Middle East through conflicts like the Soviet War in Afghanistan and through supplying countries like Ba'ath ruled Syria and Iraq and Fascism during it's height never had strong influence in the Middle East. Also conflicts today and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism can be traced back to Soviet actions during the Cold War. Fascism other than provide a little ideology, had nothing to do with conflicts that matter today unless you look at the Holocaust connection to the creation of Israel.
3. Communism was just a or more imperialistic as Fascism
The Main goal of Communism is to destroy all of society and rebuild it into a communist world. This means that the USSR wanted and supported the act of over thoroughgoing governments and replacing them with Communist one that answers to them. Fascism was about controlling the world and not destroying all of aspects of modern society like land rights, legal rights, or even religions. Communism want to colonize the world and replace it with it's own culture. That seems like imperialism to me and a more extreme form of it.
4. Unlike Communism, Fascism never had the power to destroy the World from nuclear weapons.
Now granted, the Nazi were working on Nuclear weapons during the war but they never got nuclear weapons because of them loading the war. Then, only 4 years after Nuclear weapons were made and dropped on Japan, the USSR under Stalin had the power to create a Nuclear bomb, drop it, and cause massive damage. During the Cold War, it was determined that if 100 nuclear bombs was to go off then world as we know it will be destroyed and the Soviet had 45,000 and the PRC 459 bombs so that means the Soviet had enough power to destroy the world 450 times and the Chinese had the power to destroy the world 4.59 times. No Fascist government has or will have that kind of power.
Those are may four main points of why Communism was worse then Fascism. Communism killed nearly 2 times the amount of people Fascism did, Communism effected more countries and people than Fascism did, Communism was just as or more imperialistic then as Fascism, and Fascist regime neve had the power to control whether or not the world should end in a nuclear war. I now pass this round of the debate over to my opponent.
My points for Fascism being worse than Communism is that:
1. Communism sought equality amongst all classes degrading the rich from their position and elevating the poor from theirs till all in society were equal. Fascism on the other hand sought the creation of a racial elite that subjugated all those perceived inferior. It thrived on inequality.
2. Communism sought stability, fascism chaos. Communist countries were not nearly as war hungry as the fascist powers. Fascism thrived on the idea of "struggle" and social darwinism, of the strong overpowering the weak through violence. See Mien Kampf in which Adolf Hitler writes “Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.” “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” "I want war. To me all means will be right."
3. The reason fascism is not here today is that its horrendous nature compelled the Capitalistic, Imperialistic and Communistic nations to destroy it. Communism survived longer because the non-communist nations of the world were not as terrified of it, nor saw it as as dangerous.
4. Communism was and still is a highly popular ideology, whilst we see no Fascist governments in existence today. That is because Fascism just doesn't work, whilst communism does to a degree.
5. Finally, and most powerfully, communism did not set out to destroy the world, it set out to make it "equal." However, Fascism, to a certain extent did. Fascism sought to destroy the racial "inferior" in all the earth.
Now to refute your points.
1. "Communism killed more people."
Easy to refute. You have stated that 95 million people died under communist regimes. But check this out. Around 60 million people died in world war two, something that would not have happened if it wan’t for Fascism. Of your 95 million people that died under communism, 22,000,000 to 30,000,000 million people died in WW2. Those people thus died as a result of fascism. That figure would not have existed if not for fascism. Now then, lets take that 30 million off of your 95 million. We now have 65 million dying as a result of communism, and 60.5 million dying as a result of fascism. That is a very small margin when you consider that the Fascist governments lasted around 15 years compared to the Communists, who are still with us. Given the same time frame and success, the Fascists would have possibly tripled the communist death tolls.
Okay, I will let you have that one. 1 win out of 4 is still loosing though. :P
3.Communism was just as or more imperialistic as Fascism
By your own admission it is possible that they were equally imperialistic. If that is the case, why are you arguing that Communism was more? If you take the stance that communism was more imperialistic I am fine with that. Ideas, by nature, are be spread. I am more concerned with the motive behind the imperial ideals. Communism sought dominance to create “equal” societies. Fascism sought dominance, in a much more violent way, to create unequal societies ruled by a minority.
4. Unlike Communism, Fascism never had the power to destroy the World from nuclear weapons.
Okay, this one is extremely weak. Let me first say that having the power and using the power are two very different things. Communism did not want to destroy the world, even though it had the power to. On the other hand, Fascism did not have the power but was openly aggressive and endeavored to destroy the world through mankind's ultimate struggle, “the war of the races,” also known as World War 2.
Pros first Point: Communism sought equality amongst all classes degrading the rich from their position and elevating the poor from theirs till all in society were equal.
In theory yes. Communism's ultimate goal was to do away with the class system that has been in human society since the creation of the first civilization. This was Marx's original vision. Sadly, Vladimir Lenin formed his own version of Communism to allow revolution to happen in a peasant society like Russia, this form of Communism is called Marxist-Lenin. This form of Communist thought outlined that for Communist revolution to happen, their must but a group of intellectuals that lead themselves to overthrow the existing government and to form the country slowly into a Communist society. This was key ideology for countries like USSR, China, and still in Cuba because it was allowed those governments to promise their masses future equality so they could work harder and it also allowed the government to suppress protesters because then the state could paint them as enemies of equality that Communism will one day give them. So yes, Communism in theory should allow equality for all but this point of Communism was later used to suppress enemies of protesters and paint them as enemies to the masses. Also, the "group of intellectuals" became Communist Party members and became the upper class. So in reality, Communism replaces one class model with another, making the members of the parties as the upper class and the non-party members as the lower class.
Pros second point: Communism sought stability, fascism chaos.
In reality, both systems where about control of the masses. Communism controlled the masses through the promises of equality for all and Fascism controlled the masses through uniting them with a common cause, like having a great and powerful nation. When it can to stability, Communism lacked it. If Communism did master the art of having a stable state then why countries like Hungary, Poland, and Czechoslovakia revolt against their Communist governments during The Cold War and why did the Eastern Bloc countries had to have state police and why was all the economies of all Eastern Bloc countries at that time of the 1980's doing so bad. Under Fascism, there was always stability in the state, even under times of war.
Pros third point: Communism survived longer because the non-communist nations of the world were not as terrified of it, nor saw it as as dangerous.
In the 30's, Stalin tried to get countries like the UK and France to form an alliance against the growing threat of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. But the British and French governments did take Stalin's idea of alliance because the USSR was seemed at the time a bigger threat to Western society then Fascism was. The West saw Communism as bigger threat at that time because it wanted to do away with classes and convert the world into one large Communist global government. Fascism didn't want to (as it appeared at the time) violently take over the world like the Communist did. Unlike Communism, Fascism didn't wear it's true intentions on it's sleeve. Also, after WW2 and Fascism was gone, Western countries then turned their sights onto the USSR and thus starting the Cold War. So just because Communism outlasted Fascism after WW2 that doesn't mean that the West saw it as even less of a threat. If it didn't, the Cold War would have never happened.
Pros fourth point: Communism was and still is a highly popular ideology, whilst we see no Fascist governments in existence today.
Yes, Communist governments (in name) still live on it countries like China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba. That being said, many of them have abandoned Communist principles like class struggle, world revolution, centralized for more capitalist friendly principles like a class system and market economy. China did not become the world's 2nd largest economy under Maoist principles. Also, thou Fascism is not practiced on a state level, we can see Fascist influences in Right-wing parties in Europe and in governments like Iran and Syria.
Pros fifth point: Communism did not set out to destroy the world, it set out to make it "equal."
Communism called to destroy capitalistic societies and convert the world to a global Communist government. Since that would mean taking over the world and converting all people to the belief of Communism. That sound like Communist wants to destroy a world and rebuild a new one over top of it.
Now to defend my point.
My first defense: My source from "The Black Book of Communism" ever took the deaths of WW2 into account and so you argument is false and yes, 95 million people did die from Communism. Also, the 50 million lives that where taken because of Fascism mainly happened during WW2 and the Holocaust. So the number is still 95 for Communism to Fascism 50 million. So that means you got your math wrong.
My second defense: Communism was just as or more imperialistic as Fascism because Communism wanted all capitalistic societies and replace it with a global Communist government when Fascism want not to replace the capitalistic societies but to rule them. What is more imperialist, taken over the world and colonizing it to one government or ruling the world and having smaller client countries following your orders.
My third defense: Just because the Soviet never used nuclear weapons to destroy the world or a country, how would you know any Fascist governments wouldn't do the same if they had nuclear power. How would you know that the a Fascist government like Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy or Imperial Japan would use a nuclear weapon. How would you KNOW?
Finally, I would like to say this as my closing statement. I Don't support Fascism or Communism. Both systems of government are evil and are known not to work. I just think that Communism had a more powerful negative effect on the world then Fascism ever did. I hope that you the viewer think well on this topic and know that even through Fascism is equally as evil as Communism, it did have as a profound effect on the world as Communism did. Thank you and good night.
secret_strategem forfeited this round.
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