The Instigator
LieutenantCrunch
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Liberalismisinsanity
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Federal Legalization Of Gay Marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/1/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,021 times Debate No: 37240
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

LieutenantCrunch

Pro

Some people say that gay marriage is a states' rights issue. Some say it should be made completely illegal using a constitutional amendment. I say both views are incorrect. As I see it (and how the Supreme Court has ruled in the past), legalizing gay marriage on the federal level is already constitutional and is mandated by the 1st and 14th amendments to the Bill of Rights. Leaving gay marriage to the states or signing laws like the Defense Of Marriage Act into law are blatantly unconstitutional and wrong.

I look forward to the discussion.
Liberalismisinsanity

Con

Freedom of marriage is not included in the first amendment. Freedom to petition, religion, peaceful assembly, and speech are, but even those have limits.
Gays are not being discriminated against by the fourteenth amendment because they are not being held to any lesser economic opportunity, constitutional rights, or by any form of legal discrimination.

Next you're going to tell me that pansexualism should be allowed.
Debate Round No. 1
LieutenantCrunch

Pro

You're right; marriage isn't specifically mentioned in the First Amendment. However, freedom of association and protection against the establishment of religion are.

1. Freedom of association means we have the right to associate with whomever we chose, and that includes the person we chose to marry, regardless of gender.

2. Protection against the establishment of religion means that we cannot be using the Bible, Koran, or any other religious ideology/text to dictate how people chose to live their lives on a moral basis. This means people can't be using God's Word to justify their position against gay marriage.

I beg to differ. Gay couples cannot get married in 30+ states, which means they won't be able to get the tax benefits and status that a normal heterosexual couple would get. That could be defined as a "lesser economic opportunity."

As far as pansexualism is concerned, it doesn't affect me (or you), so why should I care? However, that is a different topic.

As far as the constitution is concerned, the Supreme Court ruled in Loving v. Virginia (1967) that the "right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals" and "one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness." Marriage is deemed a "fundamental freedom" protected by the Constitution, and states cannot deny an individual of this basic human right. Concerning the 14th Amendment, the Due Process Clause protects fundamental rights while the Equal Protection Clause prohibits discrimination. Looking at the entire constitution, if marriage is a constitutional right and since the government sponsors marriage to begin with, the 14th Amendment prohibits discrimination on who can get married. In the past, it used to be interracial marriages that were protested against, until the court held up interracial marriage under the "Equal Protection" clause of the 14th Amendment. In order to keep consistent with the constitution, people need to recognize that members of the same-sex are entitled to the same privilege that interracial couples were once denied.

I would like to hear more about how gay couples are different than interracial couples.
Liberalismisinsanity

Con

Marriage is limited to Heterosexualism in sane countries for a reason:
It gets worse. Next you have pansexuals and rapists begging the government for legalization, and then we get Sodom and Gommorrah!
Now you're comparing a sinful, immoral movement to the civil rights movement? We don't make gays drink at seperate fountains, we don't spray protesting gays with firehoses! The difference is, gays are not natural. There's a rare few animals out there that don't know any better. It's like comparing apples to oranges!

The problem is, without religion, there's no reason to do anything!
Debate Round No. 2
LieutenantCrunch

Pro

How does it get worse? And this argument is getting off-topic. You need to tell me why federally legalizing gay marriage isn't constitutional before you tell me why gay marriage is immoral. Since I'm still waiting for your reply on why it's unconstitutional, I'll go along with your argument. You still need to determine why being gay is wrong, let alone gay marriage.

First of all, you are using a slippery slope argument. You can't compare pansexualism to people who commit rape. Rape is involuntary and violates one's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Pansexualism is completely voluntary.

"We don't make gays drink at seperate fountains, we don't spray protesting gays with firehoses! "

Not in the literal sense, but you are still preventing them from getting marriage licenses in 30+ states which give you tax benefits. Why? Not only that, but gays are suffering persecution from fundamentalists all across America.

Now you bring up another point about whether or not homosexuality is natural or not. Can you prove this point without using the Bible and saying it's true because the "Bible said so"?

If you are referring that homosexuality is a mental disorder, you need to provide evidence. I'll provide a quote from the American Psychological Association as to why it is not:

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder." - APA

The same institution also says that gay men are not more likely to molest young children than straight men: "Homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are." - APA

As far as being gay is a "choice" is concerned, the APA once again states that "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation," even though there isn't enough evidence to determine what exactly causes sexual orientation.

Also, the short little clip below explains in a scientific fashion how it is very likely that gender affiliation and sexuality is determined within the mother's womb:
Liberalismisinsanity

Con

You claim gay's Political freedoms, and judicial freedoms are at stake. They are not. Gays can vote, they can serve jury duty, they can profess their homosexualism in public.
The definition of marriage is one man, one woman. That's why so many people oppose it. Calling apples oranges doesn't make them oranges!
I apologize if I did get off topic.
Debate Round No. 3
LieutenantCrunch

Pro

As far as marriage is concerned, it is at stake because they don't have the right to it in 30+ states. You still need to answer my claim as to how federally legalizing gay marriage isn't constitutional. That's what this debate was supposed to be about.
Liberalismisinsanity

Con

Liberalismisinsanity forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
LieutenantCrunch

Pro

LieutenantCrunch forfeited this round.
Liberalismisinsanity

Con

Liberalismisinsanity forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Liberalismisinsanity 3 years ago
Liberalismisinsanity
I don't hate anyone. I hate sin. Homosexuality is a sin.
Posted by Numble 3 years ago
Numble
No idea why gays are disliked in the first place. Must be a disorder...
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