Feminism Does Not Equate to Equality
Debate Rounds (4)
Feminism does not seek equality between both genders, but to give back everything women were denied.
FIRST ROUND: Acceptance
SECOND ROUND: Arguments
THIRD ROUND: Rebuttals
FOURTH ROUND: Conclusion
Good luck to the future opponent.
Feminists always stick to the excuse that when women are raped and abused by men, it"s inequality. Many argue that simple catcalling of a woman is inequality. It is not. It"s injustice. (I"m not saying that I agree with the rapists" immoral actions, I am simply stating that feminists do not strive for equality at all, which is what they say they do.) If women really do want to address these problems, turning towards feminism is their biggest mistake. The abuse of women do not lie in gender discrimination but rather in social hierarchy. It"s the same case as a boy with glasses being bullied by a, say, rich kid (in this case, let"s make her a girl). Both genders are discriminated, not just women. The denotative definition of "feminism" is the "advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." I reiterate that women"s rights are already equal with those of men. I argue that feminism is irrelevant in today"s world in the sense that if women already have equal rights with men, then what is the point of still pursuing feminism? I believe that equality is not exclusive only to women, but to all humans.
My rebuttal will be longer than the argument, depending on how well my opponent argues his/her points.
Good luck to the future opponent.
When slavery was declared illegal in the US was it suddenly stopped? No, slavery continued but under the pretence that now your slaves were "servants". It took a long time until slavery was actually stopped and this is the same with gender equality. So now some women are allowed to vote, allowed to go to school, allowed to play sports, etc. But they're not allowed to be in leadership roles, nor are they allowed to have certain jobs, nor are they going to be paid fairly if they become a professional sports player or have a job. How is that equality?
Yes I do believe that feminists fight for equal treatment and for society to change their views. Isn't that the point? My opponent seems to find the fact that women are still fighting for equality annoying. Well sorry for the inconvenience, they're trying to change the world. If society had never changed their views, if you were living in America, you'd still have a slave if you were well off. Equality is for everyone as my opponent states and so far in the context of gender equality, women are the ones that fallout.
Then my opponent states generally that that rape is injustice. Yes rape is injustice but then my opponent goes on to say that catcalling is injustice. Catcalling discriminates whoever is receiving it therefore putting the person on a lower lever than that of the person who made the catcall. That is not equality and since my opponent refers to men doing all the catcalling, that is discrimination against women and not equality.
This is the same as if a man goes around and gets a lot of girls he is called a "player" and congratulated for it. But if a women did the same, she would be called some derogatory names and would probably be made fun of. How is that fair? Therefore feminism is relevant to catcalling.
Then my opponent makes the mistake of saying "the abuse of women" is not gender discrimination. So if it weren't gender discrimination, then what is it? That's practically like saying, being racist against black people is not actually being racist. Gender discrimination is based off of a persons gender, therefore the abuse of women is gender discrimination. The fact that some people can't even label what women's abuse is actually quite frightening.
My opponent then blames women's abuse on social hierarchy. Social hierarchy is a ranking of people based on status. This is exactly why feminism is still relevant today. My opponent basically implied that women are inferior to men because he/she blamed women's abuse on social hierarchy. The fact that a human being could consider a person inferior based on something that they didn't choose to have is saddening. And I'm not just talking about gender equality now. This is exactly the issue. People think it's ok to judge other just because of their gender, or just because of their ethnicity, or just because of their skin colour.
Then my opponent says that both genders are being discriminated. To that I say "are men fight for their rights?" No, and why is that? Because they don't have to. They already have all their rights. For thousands of years women have been told that they are to shut up and look pretty in the corner. They have been told that they actually aren't a person and are just an object for men to fancy looking at. And all because women fighting for their rights, suddenly men feel uncomfortable because of what? The fact that women may actually be right? The fact that women actually may be just as intelligent as a man?
Women all around the world are being oppressed. Just the other day I heard a testimony from a woman who wanted to have a leadership role in a church. But she was refused all based on the fact that she was a woman. And this was in Canada. My opponent refuses the fact that woman's equality is still an issue today. You know the saying that goes "Whatever women must do, they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good." Well it's true. Otherwise the saying wouldn't exist.
My opponent claims that women's rights are equal to men's but has nothing to back that up. Feminism are still relevant today even though some may choose to ignore the fact that the problem still exists.
TheWaywardWriter forfeited this round.
Its set in the 1800s about a girl who gets a job as a secretary which was unheard of since it is the 1800s.
Oh, please, get your facts straight. Slaves and servants have many differences, even though they both serve their masters. Were servants bought? No, they weren't. They offered themselves as services to their masters as an employment, as a job. They had their rights too. They weren"t even paid for being a slave themselves. All the money went to the person who sold them. People literally owned slaves. Servants did not. But back to the point of gender equality. Yes, gender equality has been a tough nut to crack, but because of our more advanced world, rights are equal to all men and women.
What do you mean they are not allowed in leadership roles? In terms of politics? If so, I really am shocked at your ignorance. What are the certain jobs that society would prevent women from having? You"re being vague here. Please elaborate on his women will not be paid fairly if they become a professional sports player or have a job. If you"re talking about the gender pay gap, yes, it does exist. But you have to dig deeper. Don"t just look at the issue at a surface level. There are many reasons why women have supposedly lower incomes (ex. they have to take care of their children, etc.) But statistics and studies prove that unmarried women are paid higher than unmarried men. Now, how is that equality?
Another sad fact about most feminists is that they never stop to check the consequences of their actions. What will equal treatment result in? We would be treated the same as men. We would be expected to be more masculine (which is not at all bad, but other feminists would be pushing other "weaker" women to be more masculine and just come off as stronger), which is, let"s face it, our opposite traits, as we are feminine creatures. Yes, it is good that feminists fight for society to change their views of women, but if feminism makes society look at women as man-hating fools, then why bother? Other feminists admit that they do not fight for equality but rather liberty. But if everyone is given liberty, there would also be limitations imposed on the other party.
Yes, and so are all the other citizens of this world such as I. Let me reiterate that feminism is far from fighting for equality. They are rather fighting for what women have been denied of all these years. If you have already forgotten the definition of "equality" it is "the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities."
(Please, also, work on your grammar as I cannot for the life of me comprehend what you are trying to say in this statement.) Well, no, I don"t live in America. Yes, I am glad that you have understood that equality is for everyone, which is true. But women are the ones that fall out? Only women? I don"t think so. Many feminists (like other extremist thinking people) dive into false ideologies, thinking that it is only women who are oppressed. It"s women who always suffer. Wrong. How about the fact that men are always chosen to do more dangerous jobs, such being a construction worker? How about the fact that only men are able to go to war while women live relatively easier lives at home taking care of their children (both are difficult tasks but, for men, there"s a higher chance of getting shot dead).
You actually have a point there. Yes, equality is all about having equal rights, equal opportunities and equal status. Discrimination does inherently lower the status of women. Both have recurring concepts of both injustice and inequality.
In the past, yes, men have been congratulated for being players. But in our more developed and evolved world, it is shunned by society (which consists of mostly morally upright people) that both man and woman gets a lot of girls or guys. It"s either that or society just has a neutral outlook towards it.
My opponent makes the mistake of mistaking that I said the abuse of women is not at all gender discrimination. I did not say it wasn"t, but it is not the only major factor. It"s also the social hierarchy we live in. I find it rather bogus of feminists who say they fight for equality, when in actuality they do not. Sure, there is gender discrimination, but it seems that only women are being discriminated. How about the other poor, innocent men who have done nothing in their lives but try to be and do good? They are expected to earn enough to support a family and to serve in military service. Domestic violence committed by women against men is an almost invisible crime. Men are forced to pay child support under almost every scenario; even when they're victims of statuary rape. Men aren't supposed to show emotion or cry. Men aren't supposed to enjoy "feminine" things, although it's okay for women to enjoy "masculine" things. It"s obvious that feminists strive not for equal treatment but to also warp society"s image of men. Stop doing that.
You seem to be only arguing about the relevance of feminism and deliberately avoiding the topic of how feminism does not strive for either equality or justice (although both are different, they have a close interrelationship). My opponent fails to see that feminism from the start is not about striving for equality or justice, but for what women have been denied of from the past. In all your ignorance, you state that feminism is relevant today because (according to me) I blamed (by the way, I am a female myself if you haven"t noticed my use of the pronoun "we"). Social hierarchy is the opposite of inequality, the opposite of which feminism is not about. I hope you understand what I"m saying. But yes, I am glad that we both have a common viewpoint that discrimination in all forms is a shallow part of man that although is virtually impossible can be eradicated if we put conscious effort into it.
Again, I have to reiterate that one example of men being discriminated is that they are expected to not cry or show any emotions as it would not be "manly". Another is that while it is socially acceptable for women of this age to enjoy sports and roughhousing, you call a man gay because of wanting to do more feminine stuff, such as painting your nails. Yes. It is
It is feminists themselves who do not want to become women themselves. They are already implying that if a man is more feminine, he is weaker, and by that they are implying that they themselves are weak just because of their feminine traits. Oh, the irony of you feminists. You see, both genders are constrained by stereotypes, not just women. That"s why men are uncomfortable with women fighting for their rights at this age. You feminists are such hypocrites.
I've more to say but there isn't enough word space.
My opponent has generalized every feminist in the world to being one's that hated men and want women to dominate the world. That's like generalizing that every Christian hates gay people and wants them to die which is obviously not true. My opponent has a very big misconception of what feminism is and hasn't looked very deep into the issue. Obviously as you can see from her points, she is basing them all purely off of the stereotyped crazy feminist lady. And that's the problem with today, so many people think that feminism is the crazy lady screaming that men are monsters when in reality feminism is the unnoticed passerby who wants to make a statement but is too scared that they'll be painted in the same way as the screaming lady. It is people like my opponent who fall into these stereotype traps and then they try and drag others into the trap as well. To that I say, please do not fall for it. So many woman all around the world are being oppressed.
My opponent first concedes that women are being oppressed. This basically just cancels out everything that my opponent says later on. Women are being oppressed and therefore feminism is relevant in today. To bring women who have been oppressed out of oppression.
My opponent claims then that all men and women have equal rights. "rights are equal to all men and women" is what my opponent said. To that I say, "what earth do you live on?" So that means that every single girl who was aborted in China just because they were a girl is actually secretly still alive? Because the whole reason to abort your child in China was because of the fact that they were a girl and you could only have one child. And girls in China did not have the same opportunities as boys did. And not having the same opportunities is exactly the opposite of what the definition of feminism is. My opponent is obviously a very ignorant girl considering that her back round is Asian. (I checked her profile) You should feel blessed that you're actually alive. A whole generation of girls went missing (aka they were killed) in China all because they would not have the same opportunities as boys did. And yet my opponent neglects that very fact.
Then my opponent asks about women and leadership roles? To that I say, has there ever been a female president before that stayed for the whole term? Hillary Clinton has beaten all odds and may actually become the first female president if she wins. There was only one female prime minister for Canada and she didn't even get the full term. Society looks down upon women doing any sort of manual work for a job like construction working. Why else was the pink truck fad created?
As for unequal pay, Serena Williams gets paid $450,000 and Roger Federer gets paid $700,000. And the interesting thing is that most people prefer to watch women's tennis because women return the serves more often. Both Roger and Serena are one of the top athletes in the sport. Why aren't they paid the same? This is about as fair as it gets in sports players being paid. My opponent can't deny the obvious wage gap here.
Then my opponent claims that the wage gap does exist which practically makes her point useless.
Then my opponent claims that treating everyone equally will result in bad things. Like women would literally be treated like a man, therefore having to act like one. I'd like to remind my opponent what feminism is. Feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social an economic equality to men." Does any of those three things state that women have to literally be a man? No, we as women are allowed to be feminists without having to be forced to act like men which is what my opponent is advocating for.
Then my opponent states that giving liberty to everyone is bad. So what, only a select few chosen ones get liberty? Is that what my opponent wants because that's basically what she implied. How do you choose those select few special ones? On gender? Because it certainly seems like my opponent is implying that. The definition of liberty is "the state of being free in a society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life". So now my opponent had basically implied that some people should live in oppression because its somehow beneficial for those not living in oppression.
Then my opponent goes on to blame the stereotype that men don't have feelings on feminism without any knowledge to back up that claim. That stereotype was created by the world wars. The war was very demoralizing for the men on the front lines and countries worried that men might not sign up because they had emotions that would stop them from killing so they created an image of a man who had no emotions and could get through anything because of that. As for rape, one in six women will be sexually assaulted. And those numbers are too small because more than half the number of raped that happen are not reported. The ratio of rapes from women to men are 85:12. And yet my opponent disregards the facts yet again. She tries to belittle the abuse women have gone through and blame it on the woman. One of the worst things you can do to a rape victim is tell them that its their own fault. And that's basically what my opponent has claimed. Men are suppose to pay child support because in most cases they're the ones who raped the woman. I do feel bad for the men who have been abused and don't want to get help for fear of not being seen as "macho" but putting the blame on feminism is completely wrong. Stereotypes are something that we need to get rid of because they hurt society in very big ways.
Then my opponent tries to say she didn't say that the abuse of women was not gender discrimination without looking to prior rounds. Here is exactly what she said "The abuse of women do not lie in gender discrimination". But like I said before, then where does it lie?
Then my opponent points out that all I've been doing is refuting points. But that's exactly my job. As the instigator, the burden of proof lies upon your shoulders and it is my job to refute your points. If I prove you wrong, then I win.
But just to make you happy I will make a point. The definition of equality is "the state of being equal in status, rights and opportunities." The definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social an economic equality to men." Being equal to men in society is the same as status. Being equal to men on political and economic standings is the same as having equal opportunities. And the advocacy of women's rights is the same as the rights spoken of in equality. Therefore feminism does equate to equality.
Then my opponent blames men's discrimination on feminism and then says that feminism is ironic and feminists are hypocrites. Firstly have you ever heard the term "like a girl"? Yes? And was it spoken by a feminist or a an person? Probably just a person right? And it was referring to a boy who probably had done something "like a girl", right? Pretty much everyone has heard and probably said that term. That's exactly the reason why boys grow up to think that feelings are wrong and girls grow up thinking that doing things "like a girl" is bad. People like you and I use terms that we think are absolutely normal but in reality those little things all add up. Feminism isn't the cause of men's discrimination in this context. It's us. Society and the way we think either gender should behave.
Now I shall comment on how ironic my opponent is. If I said "Go back to the kitchen" you would probably be angry right. Well, my opponent is practically saying that to herself. She has fallen into the stereotype trap and had tangled her self so deep that she is actually now against the very idea of feminism which is absolutely ridiculous. My opponent would not be writing this debate let alone going to school to learn how to write without feminism. Then my opponent says that feminists are hypocrites. How is believing that I deserve the same opportunities that a man gets hypocrisy. I feel privileged to be living in a place where I actually get education even though I'm a girl and my opponent should too. Some girls in Africa don't even get education all because their a girl. Girls in China were killed all because they were a girl. And you say that feminists in China don't want equality?
It's quite sad to see a person so warped against the thought of feminism all because of a stereotype. We need to get rid of stereotypes because then men will be allowed to express their feelings without having to fear shame and women would be allowed to speak for their rights without getting hated on by people who believe in stereotypes. Feminism is relevant to today. Many women all around the world have had their rights denied. Feminism does equate to equality.
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