The Instigator
watermelon27040
Pro (for)
The Contender
WhiteHawk
Con (against)

Feminism Is Needed in America Today

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/5/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 203 times Debate No: 105535
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

watermelon27040

Pro

Feminism is necessary in America today because women are still far more disadvantaged than men. 91% of rape victims are female, and 1 out of every 6 women has been a victim of attempted or completed rape. Furthermore, women are also underrepresented in media despite being roughly half the population, with only 29% of protagonists and 37% of major characters being female in 2016's top 100 films in the US box office. Feminism is frowned upon in society because people misinterpret what it means - many people think that it calls for better rights for women over men, when it simply calls for gender equality. Feminism is necessary because it can be empowering for women, and it needs to exist so that men will be called upon to face the consequences of their sexism.
WhiteHawk

Con

I accept the challenge. I wish you the best of luck and hope for a proper debate.

Since Pro has went ahead and stated their case, I will now state mine, and state a rebuttal.

My case will follow a format as such:
1- The change in definition
2- Gender Wage Gap
3- Why feminism today is immoral
My rebuttal will follow.

Feminism has changed since the mid 1960"s, the original term for feminism meant for equality between the genders. A little over 50 years ago, the world of the American woman was limited in almost every respect. From the home to the workplace. Women were legally subject to their husbands law and authority(1) and they were technically "property" of their husbands. Their wage, and property were controlled by their husbands. In the workforce, women were paid less than the men. In the 60"s, women strived to be the same to men, to be paid equally, be able to vote, open a bank account, and serve in combat(2).

The definition back then was to be equal. The feminists of today believe that women are better than men, most hate men in general just because of the past. They also believe that women are the victim which they should be thinking about empowering them. Which they already are empowered because of the past feminism. Feminists discriminate men with stereotypes, and terms with the prefix "man" such as mansplaining(3). Unlike the past, they have a strong opinion on the men"s personal behavior. From the way they talk, the way they approach relationships, even the way they sit. Feminists do not even fight for equal rights anymore, which they already have equal rights, they fight to be better than the men.

As for the gender wage gap, this is a myth for two reasons. One reason is because of normal women choices. Most women don"t work full-time like men do. Also, women don"t work the same jobs that men do, the top five jobs for a woman in America today are as follows; Secretary, nurse, teacher, cashier, and nursing home aid(4). The top five jobs that men work are as follows; Logging workers, Automotive repairs, Cement masons, diesel engine specialists, and electrical powerline installers(5). The jobs that men work normally pay more than the normal jobs of a woman. Of course, men and women can work opposite jobs, this is just the statistics. Reason number two is genetics. Men are generally born with larger upper body strength so men can work jobs that require strength such as a construction worker, as they need to lift heavy things.

Feminism of today is immoral because they discriminate men instead of empowering the women to make the genders equal(3). Feminism is the 60"s empowered the women in politics, and social life. And they got it done as you can easily find evidence to prove this(2). They couldn"t do things in the 60"s as they can do today in America. Feminists should be pushing to further make the genders equal while still considering the gender differences such as genetics.

Rebuttal

"Feminism is necessary in America today because women are still far more disadvantaged than men"

Since Pro did not produce any evidence, I must only assume that this is an opinion. I would like to see some proof to back up this claim to why it"s true. You try being a woman in these countries, I dare you: (7).

"91% of rape victims are female, and 1 out of every 6 women has been a victim of attempted or completed rape."

I still do not see any evidence. I will produce evidence for this. 82% of all juvenile victims are female, and 90% of adult victims are female(6). Why Pro is focusing on why females are rape victims instead of males is beyond me and immoral. The real focus should be stopping rape in general.

"many people think that it calls for better rights for women over men, when it simply calls for gender equality."

I agree with Pro on this statement. The Merriam-Webster dictionary says this(8). But I don"t think modern feminists are even following this, as I said earlier, they discriminate men(3).

"Feminism is necessary because it can be empowering for women, and it needs to exist so that men will be called upon to face the consequences of their sexism."

Women are already empowered, there are many empowered women in today"s society. In Pro"s second claim, he/she explains that men need to face the consequences of their sexism. This is stereotyping and since Pro does not have proof to back this up, i assume this is an opinion. Not all men think women are lower than them. Almost all men (such as me) do not think men are lower than them and deserve an equal profile in society and politics.

(1)-https://tavaana.org...
(2)-https://www.littlethings.com...
(3)-https://www.washingtonpost.com...
(4)-https://www.aol.com...
(5)-http://www.thedigeratilife.com...
(6)- https://www.rainn.org...
(7)- https://www.theneweconomy.com...
(8)- https://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 1
watermelon27040

Pro

In response to con, I will individually go through each of the points they presented, and post my rebuttal for each one. I hope you don't mind that I'm imitating your format for citing sources; I'm new on this site and I like your way of presenting data.

Definition:
To say that feminism today is the belief that men are inferior to women is simply untrue. Radical feminists, on the other hand, often do believe that society should be matriarchal, rather than equal, and it is very important to make a distinction between the two. It is these radical individuals whose arguments are often believed to be the cornerstones of feminist ideology, when, in reality, that is not what feminism means. I have seen numerous posts by radical feminists who believe that men should die or be subjected to the same sexism women have been subjected to, but, as a feminist, I do not agree with their viewpoints and believe them to be counterproductive. Only 17% of Americans self-identify as strong feminist, while 43% self-identify as feminist, meaning that radicals do not make up the majority of the feminist movement, and therefore most do not believe that men are inferior to women (1).

Regarding the wage gap - firstly, con's sources are both outdated and contradictory. Their first source, from which they received the top 5 occupations for women, is from 2010. Furthermore, con took their information for the top 5 occupations for men from a different source than the first, a source from 2007. The top 5 occupations for women, according to that list, are dental hygienists, preschool and kindergarten teachers, secretaries, dental assistants, and speech-language pathologists. Because con presented two sources that are both outdated and also contradict each other, I think that it would be safe to discredit both sources.

The actual 5 most common occupations for women, according to a more recent 2015 annual survey, are elementary and middle school teachers, nurses, secretaries, health aides, and customer service representatives, and the top 5 occupations for men are drivers and sales workers, managers, retail supervisors, laborers and movers, and retail salesmen (2). This information contradicts con's genetics argument, because only one of the top 5 occupations for men requires manual labor, meaning that the reason that men often have higher-paying jobs is not due to genetics. If there were more women who were drivers, managers, and supervisors, the wage gap would be greatly diminished, and so far, con has not provided any reason that women should not have these jobs.

I think that the real reason for the wage gap, rather than genetics, lies in the sexist idea of what a 'woman's job' should be. For instance, there is a gender gap in STEM fields which cannot be accounted for by the fact that men have greater upper body strength than women. Only 14.8% of engineers in the workplace are women, according to a 2016 article (3). As of 2017, women make up only 19.6% of the US Congress, 21% of the Senate, and 19.3% of the House of Representatives (4). Women make up a dismal 4.8% of CEOs in America's top 500 corporations according to a 2017 list (5). None of these jobs require manual labor.

The idea of 'normal women choices' for occupations, as con put it, simply needs to be abolished. The idea that women are nurses, secretaries, and teachers needs to be removed from society in order for women to realize that higher-paying jobs are available to them, and in order for male employers to remove any prejudices they may hold when considering who to hire. The fact that men dominate higher-paying occupations is reason enough to be concerned about the wage gap, especially when genetics cannot factor into the equation. When looking at statistics that show that men have higher-paying jobs, you are looking at the reason feminism is necessary in America today: the disadvantage women have in the workplace due to preconceived notions of what is normal for them.

Now, I will respond to con's rebuttal. I will start with "You try being a woman in these countries, I dare you":
Of course it is far more dangerous to be a woman in countries like Somalia and Afghanistan. America is an incredible place to live, especially for women, and most citizens are grateful for the freedoms and protections they are afforded in this country. However, it is illogical to dismiss a wrong by pointing out an even greater wrong happening somewhere else. Should law enforcement only stop crime in cities with the worst crime rates, and ignore everywhere else? Just as law enforcement should be concerned with all crime, feminism should be concerned with any and all instances of misogyny, whether it be rape apology in America or widespread, normalized violence against women in third-world countries. Simply because worse examples of misogyny exist does not mean that lesser examples should be dismissed out of hand.

As for con's rebuttal of my point about rape, I do not see why it should not matter that women are far more likely to be rape victims than men. If roughly 90% of adult rape victims are women, there is likely a reason for that. If only, say, 52% of adult victims were female, I would understand why it would be nonsensical to think that the underlying cause is misogyny and the objectification of women, but that is simply not the case. I am focusing on why females are rape victims instead of males because, quite simply, women are raped far more often than men. According to a 2011 study, the most recent I could find, 98.1% of rapes against women were committed by men (5). I refuse to believe that there is no reason for this. In order to stop rape in general, it is necessary to understand who the victims are, who the perpetrators are, and why the perpetrators believe their actions are acceptable. In most cases, the victims are women, the perpetrators are male, and the reason for the perpetrators actions is misogyny and their view of women as objects. That is why feminism needs to exist today; not to deny the existence of male rape victims, not to deny the existence of female rapists, but to help Americans understand why women are so often rape victims and how to stop it.

Finally, con used the typical 'not all men' argument that most anti-feminists use, verbatim. This argument is completely nonsensical and asks women to ignore misogyny because not every man is misogynistic. Since it is difficult to provide statistical evidence for something as conceptual as misogyny, I will use anecdotal evidence here. For every man I have met who is respectful and treats the women around him equally, I have met another man who is condescending or even blatantly sexist to the women around him. I have met men who completely dismiss the dissenting opinion of women who argue with them, men who believe women should not be allowed to vote, and men who lash out angrily at women without considering the consequences for their actions, all of whom believe that they aren't sexist in the slightest. Even if men do not blatantly believe themselves to be superior to women, sexism in America is, for the most part, deeply ingrained in a person's behavior, rather than being a belief that they have chosen for themselves. Just because women have equal rights on paper does not mean that they are treated equally in society, nor does it mean that sexism is not present in the workforce or in politics.

1: https://www.washingtonpost.com...
2: https://www.dol.gov...
3: http://alltogether.swe.org...
4: http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu...
5: http://www.oneinfourusa.org...
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 month ago
Lookingatissues
Somehow my comments were posted ( 3 ) times... Sorry!
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 month ago
Lookingatissues
" Feminism Is Needed in America Today "
Feminism is just another divisive tool of women who are railing against the natural role of females for a variety of reasons and not all of the reasons some women push the feminist agenda has to do with the idea that women are disadvantaged in relation to the opportunities available to men.
There has always been women who are Lesbians, are attracted to the same sex, and assume the male role in a relationship with women thus are in direct completion with men for partners. Also modern education has instilled the idea that women are victims of oppressive males in society and are denied women's natural rights to opportunities when this bogus argument is really about
'Equality of Outcome'.
".....people by nature have differing levels of ability and initiative which lead some to achieve better outcomes than others. Therefore, it is considered impossible to ensure equality of outcome without imposing inequality of opportunity...."
Quote from "THE Daily omnivore Elizabeth Murray
Women by nature are assigned certain roles in life, as are men. to deny this isn't reality as much as some would wish differently . As "John Adams once said about facts,
" Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 month ago
Lookingatissues
" Feminism Is Needed in America Today "
Feminism is just another divisive tool of women who are railing against the natural role of females for a variety of reasons and not all of the reasons some women push the feminist agenda has to do with the idea that women are disadvantaged in relation to the opportunities available to men.
There has always been women who are Lesbians, are attracted to the same sex, and assume the male role in a relationship with women thus are in direct completion with men for partners. Also modern education has instilled the idea that women are victims of oppressive males in society and are denied women's natural rights to opportunities when this bogus argument is really about
'Equality of Outcome'.
".....people by nature have differing levels of ability and initiative which lead some to achieve better outcomes than others. Therefore, it is considered impossible to ensure equality of outcome without imposing inequality of opportunity...."
Quote from "THE Daily omnivore Elizabeth Murray
Women by nature are assigned certain roles in life, as are men. to deny this isn't reality as much as some would wish differently . As "John Adams once said about facts,
" Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
Posted by Lookingatissues 1 month ago
Lookingatissues
" Feminism Is Needed in America Today "
Feminism is just another divisive tool of women who are railing against the natural role of females for a variety of reasons and not all of the reasons some women push the feminist agenda has to do with the idea that women are disadvantaged in relation to the opportunities available to men.
There has always been women who are Lesbians, are attracted to the same sex, and assume the male role in a relationship with women thus are in direct completion with men for partners. Also modern education has instilled the idea that women are victims of oppressive males in society and are denied women's natural rights to opportunities when this bogus argument is really about
'Equality of Outcome'.
".....people by nature have differing levels of ability and initiative which lead some to achieve better outcomes than others. Therefore, it is considered impossible to ensure equality of outcome without imposing inequality of opportunity...."
Quote from "THE Daily omnivore Elizabeth Murray
Women by nature are assigned certain roles in life, as are men. to deny this isn't reality as much as some would wish differently . As "John Adams once said about facts,
" Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
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