Feminism Isn't Actually for Women's Rights.
Debate Rounds (4)
1. No forfeiting
2. No trolls
3. Sources may be left in the comments.
Firstly, I would like to address feminism in a way which is comprehensive, so I will begin with some opening arguments.
(1) Feminism was a movement launched with the intent of ending stigmas women faced.
(1a) During the great depression in America, women faced harsh gender biases when attempting to find work. Women who attempted to attain employment, economic success, or even self-dependence, were often accused of thievery and stealing opportunities from their male counterparts. According to the article, "Women And The Great Depression" by Susan Ware, ""Women who sought relief or paid employment risked public scorn or worse for supposedly taking jobs and money away from more deserving men." The previous quote does in fact prove that women faced stigmas exclusive to them, and thus those stigmas gave them difficulty when trying to find employment. This therefore proves the need for feminism.
(1b) Feminism has accomplished many many things for the sake of women; ranging from reducing gender pay inequities, granting women the right to the suffrage, allowing them to wear clothes, participate in the entertainment industry, and even has allowed them to serve in government positions. According to an article by the History Network, "For almost 100 years, women (and men) had been fighting to win that right [suffrage]: They had made speeches, signed petitions, marched in parades and argued over and over again that women, like men, deserved all of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship." Again, this is evidence that feminism, a movement which was initiated to advocate for the escalation of women's statuses in society to be equal to men's, does in fact benefit women.
(1c) The very definition of feminism is also proof that feminism operates predominately in the interest of women who face gender stigmas, however, it does also operate in favor of both:
: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests"
I think that this is an appropriate size/length for an opening argument, I will therefore hand the floor over to my opponent.
Now let's talk statistics. Only 20% of women openly identify as feminist. That was a 2015 poll by m.huffpost.com/us/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html. In 2014, 28% of the American population identified as feminist. Yet 82% of people support gender equality. I am one of those 82%. I am not a feminist though.
Now, let's talk about feminists claiming "opression." Let's face it. Women in the U.S. are not oppressed. If you want to see opression, look at the middle east. Women there are basically forced to wear clothing that the majority of them object to wearing. They aren't even aloud to drive. That's opression. Having a door held open for you by a man because he wants to be nice is not opression.
Finally, let's talk about women claiming that they do not have equal rights to men. Women actually have more righgs than men.
1. Women have the right to genital integrity. No matter how you feel about the practice of circumcision, girls are protected against genital cutting of any kind and infant boys are not.
2. Women have the right to vote without agreeing to die. Women gain the right to vote by simply surviving 18 years. Men, however; cannot be eligible to vote until they sign with the Selective Service. This means they will have to be shiped off to war and be willing to die if deemed necessary by the government.
3. Women have the right to choose parenthood. Women can have an unwanted child aborted, put up for adoption or surrender the child under Safe Haven laws and be freed from all responsibility and obligation of the child without consulting the father.
4. Women have the right to be assumed caregivers for children. When parents divorce, the mother is almost always given custody of the child. The father, however; has to be verified as a worthy caregiver.
5. Women have the right to call unwanted, coerced sex rape. This means that if a woman coerces sex with a man, then decides later that she doesn't want it, she can call it rape and the man can be convicted.
Overall, feminism is a corrupt cause full of unjust ignorant little girls who have been blinded by society into thinking that they are opressed and have less rights than men. It's ridiculous. Thank you.
Libertarian_Jacquelyn forfeited this round.
Anyways, I will now take this time for rebuttals to your arguments - I guess this kind of messes with the structure of the debate, but we'll go with it.
(1) Feminism is necessary because men are not victims as often as women.
(1a) There are many fields and layers of society in America where both men and women equally suffer, or where one suffers more than the other. In legal institutions, men tend to be more victimized than women of injustices stemming from their anatomical sex. For instance, in custody dispute cases, men tend to be viewed as womanizers and as the aggressor; whereas women tend to be viewed as fragile, weak, and as dependent on the legal system. Therefore, in accordance with social norms as well as gender appropriation, women tend to be aided more by the system with biases because they are viewed as unable to protect themselves without some means of affirmative action. However, this is changing, and therefore demonstrates that men do not necessarily require any assistance in this particular field or an expansion of their "rights". An article by Villainous Company perfectly describes it with numerous studies across a few states in America; the results were chilling and bore a stark contrast with public perception on the issue. For instance, in their first study (Massachusetts), 2100 cases were analyzed where fathers wanted to dispute in court for custody of their children. 29 percent of fathers got primary custody, where only 7 percent of women got primary custody. That is a large gap. Women clearly need assistance in legal institutions, contrary to popular belief. Therefore, I ask that you dispel the notion that women do not need feminism.
(1b) Several sources across the internet have reported that men are raped more often than women - when accounting for all prison assaults. However, accounting for street harassment and sexual violence faced by women, statistics have shown that women are raped 5.6 times more often that are men. During wartime, rape also disproportionately affects women, whereas men are considerably less victimized by rape. This is all explained by the Women Under Siege Project's article. The rape culture surrounding men also only tends to be sharp during times of war, but the average is sustained as 1 in every 71 men in the U.S, according to an article by Wikipedia. According to the same article, in 2013, 28 percent of heterosexual and 48 percent of bisexual women were raped - and that was between the ages of 11 and 17 alone. These figures are substantially higher.
(2) Radical feminism does not represent the whole movement.
(2a) It is undeniable that radical feminists - those who wish to institute a matriarchy into society - do exist. However, it is not true that these people represent the entire movement. The distinction to draw comes down to two categories of feminism; one is 'radical feminism' and the other is 'liberal feminism'. Radical feminism seeks to install a matriarchy - a society where women are dominant and men are subordinate. The reason for this demand is two things; 1) the general distaste for men because of objectification and 2) the current society where men are institutionally superior to women. While this theory is wrong, it has some sentiment shared with liberal feminism, which is expressed in a much less extremist fashion. Liberal feminism seeks to implement legal policy which diminishes biases and stigmas faced by men or women stemming from their anatomical sexes. The following quote from 'Radical vs. Liberal Feminism' perfectly reflects this general concept, "Liberal feminism is rooted in the belief that women as well as men are rights bearing, autonomous human beings". Once more, liberal feminism demands that all genders are treated equally within a given society, whereas radical feminism demands the institutionalized supremacy of women over men.
(2b) It is true that feminism is losing its popularity, where only 20 percent of women openly support the movement. But there are many factors to take into account; for one, there is a severe radicalization occurring over the internet. People often perceive feminism's ambitions because of radicals on Tumblr and other social media outlets, and therefore conclude the movement is the same. This scrutinizes even just the name of the movement, and surely discourages people from joining it. But there is also the fact that feminism is an opposition to the status quo, and those who reap the benefits will often socially suppress opposition to their means. Those above - mainly within corporate America - will pay politicians to run campaign platforms that pertain to their interests - especially when their privileges are being questioned. This also pushes people away from the movement; propaganda and the fact that the movements are gagged by media and other important ways people communicate.
(2c) Feminism is not just advocating for gender equality within the United States, but generally within the world. Just because there are feminists in America does not mean they only serve the interests of American women. Conditions faced by women within the Middle East only goes to show that there is a global need for feminism and its corresponding legislative implementations. Forced genital mutilation upon women across various countries, particularly within Africa, are the kinds of things that empower feminism. There is still a global struggle for women. Just as for instance, LGBT Rights Movements would also be vocal about the conditions LGBT community members face in other nations where they are under harsher conditions (i.e Middle East, Africa).
You made the following talking points that I would like to individually refute.
1. Women have the right to genital integrity in America? Of course they do. Unlike with men, it is not necessarily feasible to demand that your daughter be circumcised, considering nothing of interest or particular significance would linger there to be cut. With men, that's a different case entirely. But this is also omitting the underlying concept behind circumcision; when a man has no foreskin, it reduces discomfort, enables them to clean themselves easier, and decreases risk of infection (i.e smegma).
2. Selective Service does not quite mean men are absolutely required to join the military if the government sees fit. The draft, a system wherein people are sent to war by force, no longer exists because it is not seen as constitutional. Forcing people to fight and die for America's [fraudulent] causes does not particularly seem reasonable nor within the basic human rights of our citizens. Therefore, there really is no right to complain about Selective Service, although I personally would say that neither men nor women should have to register in it.
randomman22 forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by chrisjachimiak 6 months ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct- Both sides forfeited, but pro more than Con. But, Con didn't follow the rules outlined by Pro in the opening round (Con posted Opening Arguments in Acceptance Round). Thus, Conduct is tied. Spelling/Grammar- Pro misspelled many word including "aloud" when he meant to say "Allowed". Thus, con wins here. Convincing Arguments- Con wins this because she was able to defend her own points in the final round, which pro wasn't able to do. Sources- Were all pretty reliable so not discrepancy here.
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