The Instigator
Mr0strich8020
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Tommy.leadbetter
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Feminism Should not be Encouraged

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 384 times Debate No: 68161
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Mr0strich8020

Pro

I will be arguing against Feminism. I believe that it is a negative movement because feminism does not accept that sexism goes both ways and effects men as much as it does women. This is not the only point I will be making on the subject however it will be one of my primary arguments. My adversary will be arguing that Feminism is positive, and will give their reasoning for this view.
Tommy.leadbetter

Con

I look forward to a good debate. Good luck.

Before we begin let's first establish what we mean by feminism. This is the google definition: "Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies that share a common stated aim: to define, establish, and defend equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment."

Now I'm sure my opponent doesn't disagree that women should be equal, so I will spare him the morality lesson. I'm sure he is far more intelligent, and believes that men have it just as difficult as women, and feminism is now just making it worse. Is this the case? For the sake of this first argument I will assume so. So I am going to try and convince you that being a women is not as easy as being a man in this society. However I want to make clear that I believe that the males and females of the masses are exploited, and we all are mentally exploited by corporations to make money off us. But I do believe that 'womanhood' is used to exploit its hosts, and if 'womanhood' is considered lesser, then it can only mean 'manhood' is better.

So now I have stated my belief, I will lay out my argument.

My main point is that women are mentally oppressed by the mainstream media, through advertising, storytelling, cultural prejudices and music videos. I know that women cannot be discriminated against by law, since the 1928 Act in the uk, and I know women are arguably treat more fairly, when it comes to children. But there is still a cultural bias towards men that is perpetuated by the mainstream media and is far more damaging and effective than these laws in everyday life.

I will try to demonstrate the unconscious prejudices that have been instilled on us through our cultural narrative: For instance, what prejudices do these phases ignite: "Be a man!": "Don't be such a woman!": "Man-up!": "What a girl!". "Bitch!": They all suggest that women are useless and men are great, based on their sexuality exclusively. To say: "don't be a woman", is implying that women are culturally accepted as being less than men, at least in many ways.

But my friend, 'discriminating' women goes way back. Not just that, it was still prevalent only a generation ago. My own mother was born into a country that considered her unworthy of having a say in politics (the Uk). So how much are we still influenced by this? Do you really think a law could wipe away all cultural bias that has been intrinsic for even millions of years? And yes, millions of years-males in 'tournament species' (such as ours) grow larger than the females because the males fight, and thusly males in these species form hierarchies that automatically put them into positions of 'power'.

So the issue of male dominance goes back even into our evolutionary history, before homosapains. I mean, just look at us: males are stronger and bigger, females are weaker and have monthy periods that also put them out of action, I know this doesnt mean much in this society, but in the wild power equals dominance and success. So its a lot harder to reverse such a big phenomena than one might think at first.

So now I've given you the reason WHY female prejudice could still exist, let me give you facts that demonstrate that it does in fact still exist.

The following facts and their original sources can be verified at (1).

"36% of people believe that a woman should be held wholly or partly responsible for being sexually assaulted or raped if she was drunk, and 26% believe this if she was in public wearing sexy or revealing clothes.(4)"

"1 in 5 people think it would be acceptable in certain circumstances for a man to hit or slap his female partner in response to her being dressed in sexy or revealing clothing in public.(9)"

"The full time gender pay gap is 10%[13] , and the average part-time pay gap is 34.5%.[14]"

"It is estimated that for each year a mother is absent from the workplace her future wages will reduce by 5%.[15]

"Approximately 70% of people in national minimum wage jobs are women.[16]"

"Women make up only 17% board directors of FTSE 100 companies.[18]"

"Only 1 in 4 MPs is a woman and women from minority ethnic groups make up only 1.2% of MPs yet comprise 4% of the UK population.[34]"

"Women are outnumbered 5 to1 by men in the cabinet only 16% of senior ministerial posts are held by women.[35]"

"Locally, just 35% of elected councillors are women and only 13% of local authority council leaders are women.[38]"

"Current percentages of women MPs by party are: Conservatives: 16%; Labour: 31%; Liberal Democrats: 12%.[42]"

"At the current rate of progress we would have to wait more than 150 years before seeing an equal number of women and men elected to English local councils.[39]"

This last point is more relevant to this argument. If "at this rate" it would take so long to have equal representation, the why would my opponent denounce the only organisation primarily set up to " (create) equal political... rights for women"? Unless he did not wish to have equal representation, though I don't doubt he does. I think he has failed to see the bigger picture, and thus the real need for action in the direction of women's equality. In day to day life it's easy to loose sight of this fact, as women are lawfully equal and often in positions of power. But these figures, representing political misrepresentation, and the darker forces at play that use the media to manipulate us, are so massive, that they are hard to perceive. This is because they have been all around us our whole life and even in our own narratives and biases about the world. I refer back to the point about the phrases "man-up" and "what a woman". You don't even know why you perceive being called a 'woman' an insult and being called a 'man' a complement. Obviously if your a man it's insulting to be called a woman, but its not usual to insult a woman by calling her a man. Indeed it would only be in a situation in which she acted 'like a man', for instance not being good eye-candy or doing something adventurous, and this would only discourage women from being active and of leadership value. As this next point demonstrates:

"At the age of 5, there's no difference between genders in those who want to be president and those who don't: by the age of 16, 30% less women want to be president than men."(2)

Just 1 more:

"1 in 5 teenage girls have a psychological eating disorder related to obsessive desire to be skinny" (2)

So women are still massively un represented in our politics, and even on a day-to-day level they are poorer and have lower self-esteem. With such gross misrepresentation in the institutions that govern our life, those being political and corporate, and with clear statistics that show women to be 'worse-off' than men in many ways, is it really right to say feminism should not be encouraged?

I think that a fairer political sphere, and a more positive representation of women in the media, is a good thing. So the organisations promoting it (feminists) are a positive influence if one wants a more representative and fair society. Therefore I think it should probably be encouraged. However certainly not, as my opponent is arguing, should it be discouraged! Why should one take time out of their life, not to challenge Apple for their workers conditions, or to challenge cola-cola for poisoning people's water supplies, but to discourage a group of people, devoted to a more fair representation in their society? A representation that is clearly not currently being met: as was said: "at this rate 150 years until equal representation". So why should it be discouraged? Why not even tolerated?

(1)http://ukfeminista.org.uk...
(2)http://www.jeankilbourne.com...

There is not enough room to demonstrate my point about the media, I will do it next round.

Thank you
Debate Round No. 1
Mr0strich8020

Pro

Round one should have just been acceptance, since I did not get a chance to present my argument. I should have made it clearer so there won’t be any penalty for this misunderstanding.

To clarify, I do not hold the belief that men are superior to women. In this debate I will be arguing that men are faced with an equal amount of sexism as women.


"Feminism is a Movement that Advocates Equality Between the Sexes"

You start by giving the definition of feminism, which states it is a movement which strives to equalize the sexes. However I would respond by saying that we should judge a movement by its actions rather than its dictionary.com definition. Its actions would, in my opinion, portray feminism as a women-first campaign.

Feminism chooses to ignore many of the issues that men face. Attempting to equalize the sexes by focusing exclusively on one of them, is not logical and not fair.

I will continue by giving a list of the many inequalities that men are faced with:

Sexism Against Men:

1.Domestic violence cases, where a man is the victim of his girlfriend’s violence, make up 40% of reported domestic violence cases. When a MAN is the victim of domestic violence, the women does not face nearly as much jail time as a man that committed the same crime.

http://www.theguardian.com...

2.Only men are eligible for the draft.

3.The overwhelming majority of workers in dangerous jobs are men.

4.When a man gets rapes it "empowers women" but when a man rapes a women he is sent to prison for years on end.

5.In general, when a woman commits a crime, she is faced with a significantly less amount of jail time that a man who commits the same crime.

5.Men are also objectified by the media. They are told by society they have to be muscular, and tough.

6.In action movies, like Kill Bill, where there is a strong female protagonist, the men she fights against are stripped of their human traits and portrayed as nothing more than targets. When they are killed there is no emotional toll. This is objectification. Not only is female against male violence acceptable, it is encouraged, and a woman’s ability to kill many men in a movie is seen as a virtue.

Now, given the numerous inequalities that men face, it doesn’t make sense for a gender equality movement to ignore such incidents.

More sexism toward men:

A few years ago there was an incident where a woman cut of her husbands penis, and then threw it into a blender. This incident was the subject to quite a bit of discussion, one of such discussions was on a women’s talk show. In this talk show, they repeatedly made jokes about this poor man who now has no penis. The media consistently reinforces the notion that women against man violence is acceptable. If the same incident were to happen to a women, where her husband cut her breasts off, do you really think anyone would be joking about it? If there was a talk show that joked about it, there would literally be an uproar. Here’s the video as well as many others: https://www.youtube.com...

Im am not denying the existence of women’s issues, however I am just saying that we should also focus on the other half of the human population. Most of the cases that you presented, where women are treaded unfairly are valid, except for one: the pay gap.

Pay Gap:

The statistics surrounding the pay gap have been repeatedly debunked. When the government conducted this study, they looked at the payments between men and women in general, not looking at each specific job and comparing wages accordingly. When you take into account that men on average actually choose higher paying jobs in fields such as science and engineering, and women choose lesser paying jobs such as education and nursing, the pay gap literally disappears. Men also on average work more hours. You also, must also take into account that women take years at a time off work for maternity leave.

http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org...


Conclusion:

I have presented a valid list of inequalities that men are faced with. The fact that a gender equalizing campaign ignores such exmples of sexism, serves as evidence that it is a hypocritical movement. Thus, it shouldn't be encouraged. The very title "Feminism" right off the bat, establishes it as a women's first campaign and,through every one of its actions, this is proven to be the case.

Tommy.leadbetter

Con

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Mr0strich8020

Pro

Mr0strich8020 forfeited this round.
Tommy.leadbetter

Con

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Mr0strich8020

Pro

Mr0strich8020 forfeited this round.
Tommy.leadbetter

Con

Tommy.leadbetter forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Criticalthinkerguy 1 year ago
Criticalthinkerguy
It is a tell tale sign that a debate is not going well when both sides forfeit in the third round.
I don't think there can actually be a winner in this debate.
Posted by Mr0strich8020 1 year ago
Mr0strich8020
I wouldn't mind at all. Try not to miss it though because I don't want to be stuck in the exact same debate for no reason.
Posted by enternamehere 1 year ago
enternamehere
Was beaten by seconds to the "accept challenge" button. Would like to debate this also. Mr0stritch8020, would you mind creating another one and debate this with me as well?
No votes have been placed for this debate.