The Instigator
enternamehere
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Mr0strich8020
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Feminism Should not be Encouraged

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
enternamehere
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 688 times Debate No: 68212
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

enternamehere

Con

I was beaten to the "Accept argument" button and I will like to debate this also. If you want to accept this challenge, I will make case in round two. I will copy your "Round 1", and paste it here:

"I will be arguing against Feminism. I believe that it is a negative movement because feminism does not accept that sexism goes both ways and effects men as much as it does women. This is not the only point I will be making on the subject however it will be one of my primary arguments. My adversary will be arguing that Feminism is positive, and will give their reasoning for this view." - Mr0strich8020.

Round 1 - acceptance. I accept.


If you do not want to accept this, message me and I will cancel the debate. Good luck.

I also ask for my opponent not to post a case in round one.
Mr0strich8020

Pro

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
enternamehere

Con

I would like to begin by first clarifying the definition of:

"Feminism": "The advocacy of women"s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." [http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...]

I am against the topic "Feminism Should not be Encouraged". Therefore, I am for the topic "Feminism Should be Encouraged".

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Why I believe feminism should be encouraged: Feminism (by definition) aims for equal rights between sexes.

Why should feminism be encouraged in schools? It would teach kids that gender discrimination is wrong.

Why should feminism be encouraged to employers? It would make employers aware that gender should not be a factor when there is a competition for a job - that only the traits, abilities and other relevant factors would be necessary.

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I will continue after Pro produces his case. I will subsequently try and rebuttal. Good luck.
Mr0strich8020

Pro

Mr0strich8020 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
enternamehere

Con

Conduct to me...

However, this could still be a good debate...

I extend all previous arguments.

I would like to add that Pro has full BoP.
Mr0strich8020

Pro

I appologize for foreiting the round. I have quite a few debates going on at the moment. You begin by giving the definiotion of feminism. To which I would argue, judge a movement based on its actions rather than its definition. In this debate I will argue that feminism should not be encouraged, as there is an equal amount of feminism on both sides. Feminism is the belief that we should equalize the genders by only focusing on one.

Sexism Against Men:

1.Domestic violence cases, where a man is the victim of his girlfriend’s violence, make up 40% of reported domestic violence cases. When a MAN is the victim of domestic violence, the women does not face nearly as much jail time as a man that committed the same crime.

http://www.theguardian.com......

2.Only men are eligible for the draft.

3.The overwhelming majority of workers in dangerous jobs are men.

4.When a man gets rapes it "empowers women" but when a man rapes a women he is sent to prison for years on end.

5.In general, when a woman commits a crime, she is faced with a significantly less amount of jail time that a man who commits the same crime.

5.Men are also objectified by the media. They are told by society they have to be muscular, and tough.

6.In action movies, like Kill Bill, where there is a strong female protagonist, the men she fights against are stripped of their human traits and portrayed as nothing more than targets. When they are killed there is no emotional toll. This is objectification. Not only is female against male violence acceptable, it is encouraged, and a woman’s ability to kill many men in a movie is seen as a virtue.

Now, given the numerous inequalities that men face, it doesn’t make sense for a gender equality movement to ignore such incidents.

More sexism toward men:

A few years ago there was an incident where a woman cut of her husbands penis, and then threw it into a blender. This incident was the subject to quite a bit of discussion, one of such discussions was on a women’s talk show. In this talk show, they repeatedly made jokes about this poor man who now has no penis. The media consistently reinforces the notion that women against man violence is acceptable. If the same incident were to happen to a women, where her husband cut her breasts off, do you really think anyone would be joking about it? If there was a talk show that joked about it, there would literally be an uproar. Here’s the video as well as many others:https://www.youtube.com......

Im am not denying the existence of women’s issues, however I am just saying that we should also focus on the other half of the human population. Most of the cases that you presented, where women are treaded unfairly are valid, except for one: the pay gap.

Pay Gap:

The statistics surrounding the pay gap have been repeatedly debunked. When the government conducted this study, they looked at the payments between men and women in general, not looking at each specific job and comparing wages accordingly. When you take into account that men on average actually choose higher paying jobs in fields such as science and engineering, and women choose lesser paying jobs such as education and nursing, the pay gap literally disappears. Men also on average work more hours. You also, must also take into account that women take years at a time off work for maternity leave.

http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org......

I will now give a quote from your agrument
"It will teach kids that descrimination is wrong"

To which I would respond by agreeing with your first stament. That it would teach kids not to descriminate. It would however, teach kids the lie that women are oppressed and men are priveleged, a dillusion that I have debunked in my previous examples.
The same would apply in jobs. Employees would be under the impression that women are oppressed, thus giving them reason to give women unfair advantages. They would give them an advantage above men when hiring. They would give them more frequent promotions etc...


Conclusion:

I have presented a valid list of inequalities that men are faced with. The fact that a gender equalizing campaign ignores such exmples of sexism, serves as evidence that it is a hypocritical movement. Thus, it shouldn't be encouraged. The very title "Feminism" right off the bat, establishes it as a women's first campaign and,through every one of its actions, this is proven to be the case.

Debate Round No. 3
enternamehere

Con

I would like to add that all I have to do to win, is state a situation where feminism should be encouraged. And, for Pro to win, he has to fulfill the Burden of Proof, to do this, he has to prove that feminism should not be encouraged in all circumstances.


"You begin by giving the definiotion of feminism. To which I would argue, judge a movement based on its actions rather than its definition."

The resolution: "Feminism Should not be Encouraged". I argue that my defintion is completely relevant, for the resolution is "Feminism", not the Feminist Movement. Therefore, I believe, "judge a movement based on its actions rather than its defintion", is invalid. If the resolution was "The consumption of steaks should not be encouraged", I would argue about the benefits of having steak were. However, pro would be arguing about some of the people who eat steaks. And per debate rules, if a key part was left undefined ("feminism"), the opponent can define it in the next round (as I did, "Feminism": "The advocacy of women"s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." [http://www.oxforddictionaries.com......])



"I have presented a valid list of inequalities that men are faced with. The fact that a gender equalizing campaign ignores such exmples of sexism, serves as evidence that it is a hypocritical movement. Thus, it shouldn't be encouraged. The very title "Feminism" right off the bat, establishes it as a women's first campaign and,through every one of its actions, this is proven to be the case."


For the rest of pro's arguments he clearly states that there is sexism for both genders, that does not prove that feminism should not be encouraged.

Definition of:
Sexism: "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex"
[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...]


Definition of:
Feminism: "The advocacy of women"s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." [http://www.oxforddictionaries.com......]

Pro bases his arguments around the fact that feminism only care for women's rights...
However, the defintion of feminism is "The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."
This means that feminism could also be decreasing women's rights to make equality between the sexes.

Pro constructs his argument like so:

Women's rights> Men's rights. Therefore, feminism should not be encouraged (Pro thinks, feminism is to be encouraged only when women's rights are<men's rights).
However, this proves that feminism should be encouraged.

Therefore, Pro comitted a Red Herring Fallacy: "A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
  1. Topic A is under discussion.
  2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
  3. Topic A is abandoned."

[http://www.nizkor.org...]

I will insert this debate into the 'Red Herring Fallacy detector'!

  1. Topic A is under discussion. "Feminism Should not be Encouraged"
  2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A). Men experience more sexism, therefore, feminism should not be encouraged.
  3. Topic A is abandoned. "Feminism Should not be Encouraged".

Additional Case:

3rd World Countries. Examples of how men's rights exceed women's, therefore, feminism should be encouraged.

Forbidden from driving.

"In Saudi Arabia, women aren’t allowed to drive, or even ride bikes, and men aren’t allowed to drive women they’re not closely related to."

Right to divorce.

"In many countries, while husbands can divorce their spouses easily (often instantaneously through oral repudiation), wives’ access to divorce is often extremely limited, and they frequently confront near insurmountable legal and financial obstacles."


Right to education.

"In many areas of Afghanistan, girls are often taken out of school when they hit puberty."



Right to travel.

"Husbands in Egypt and Bahrain can file an official complaint at the airport to forbid their wives from leaving the country for any reason."


Domestic violence.

"Women’s unequal legal rights increase their vulnerability to violence. In many countries in the region, no specific laws or provisions exist to penalize domestic violence, even though domestic violence is a widespread problem."


Custody rights.

"In Bahrain, where family law is not codified, judges have complete power to deny women custody of their children for the most arbitrary reasons. Bahraini women who have been courageous enough to expose and challenge these violations in 2003 were sued for slander by eleven family court judges."


Citizenship.

"Most countries in the region-with the exception of Iran, Tunisia, Israel, and to a limited extent Egypt-have permitted only fathers to pass citizenship on to their children. Women married to non-nationals are denied this fundamental right."


Sexual subjugation.

"Many countries criminalize adult, consensual sex outside of marriage. In Morocco, women are much more likely to be charged with having violated penal code prohibitions on sexual relations outside of marriage than men. Unmarried pregnant women are particularly at risk of prosecution. The Moroccan penal code also considers the rape of a virgin as an aggravating circumstance of assault. The message is clear: the degree of punishment of the perpetrator is determined by the sexual experience of the victim."


Female infanticide.

"China’s one child policy has heightened the disdain for female infants; abortion, neglect, abandonment, and infanticide have been known to occur to female infants. The result of such family planning has been the disparate ratio of 114 males for every 100 females among babies from birth through children four years of age. Normally, 105 males are naturally born for every 100 females.

Similarly, the number of girls born and surviving in India is significantly less compared with the number of boys, due to the disproportionate numbers of female fetuses being aborted and baby girls deliberately neglected and left to die. The normal ratio of births should be 950 girls for every 1000 boys, however in some regions the number is as low as 300."

Sources for this case: [http://listverse.com...]

If Pro argues that this is a religious matter, it does not mean that feminism should not be encouraged.


Why I won the debate:

1. All I have to do to win, is give an example of why feminism should be encouraged. Pro said: "I will now give a quote from your agrument
"It will teach kids that descrimination is wrong"

To which I would respond by agreeing with your first stament." Pro agrees with one of my cases of why feminism should be encouraged, therefore, making his BoP impossible to fulfill, for he has to prove that feminism should not be encouraged in all situations.

2. Pro cannot fulfill his BoP.

3. I refuted his arguments, by proving that they were unrelated, and does not prove that feminism should not be encouraged.

4. Pro's case does not consider women's rights in 3rd world countries.

5. Redherring Fallacy was pointed out.


So all in all, I have already one the debate, for Pro cannot fulfill the BoP.

Thanks for the debate.


Mr0strich8020

Pro

Mr0strich8020 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by enternamehere 1 year ago
enternamehere
Sorry, forgot to put my sixth point for why i won the argument:
My spelling and grammar was more consistent, and Pro forfeited.
Posted by enternamehere 1 year ago
enternamehere
Sorry, forgot to put my sixth point for why i won the argument:
My spelling and grammar was more consistent, and Pro forfeited.
Posted by enternamehere 1 year ago
enternamehere
I would just like to say that Mr0strich8020, is effectively the instigator of this debate. He is currently in the same debate with a different contender. I challenged him to this: which I used the same title "Feminism Should not be Encouraged", and I posted his round one. The only thing different about this, is that I would make case first in the second round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by The-Voice-of-Truth 1 year ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
enternamehereMr0strich8020Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree on the stance of Feminism that Con took. For me, the issue is that most modern-day feminists have no cause (such as "girls are better at sports than boys." I have been seeing a lot of those types of things in the 'Opinions' section of this website). I agree with Con, as he presented a view of Feminism that I have yet to see until now, and I think that if all Feminists were to go by his standards (but sadly, most of them do not), I would agree on the encouragement of Feminism. However, until todays feminists stop making petty issues, I will continue to say that Feminism should not be encouraged.