The Instigator
PrimeLunatic
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
JohnMaynardKeynes
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points

Feminism creates pseudo problems and is nowhere near as relevant as Feminists claim it is

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
JohnMaynardKeynes
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/7/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 819 times Debate No: 58665
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (6)

 

PrimeLunatic

Con

[Please note: This is in no way, shape, or form an attack on women]

Feminism-

In this day in age, I have been noticing a few feminists creating a series of pseudo-problems such as "there aren't enough women in video games" when clearly these 'problems' have simple answers; video game designers are catering to the majority in order to make a profit and not to 'oppress' women. What exactly is to be gained financially by appealing to the demands of the minority of your customer base? Causes like this are near pointless due to the fact they are overanalyzed until they become a direct threat and/or threat against women.

Wage gap-

Moving on to women in the workplace, Feminists will argue that for every $1.00US a man makes a woman will make $0.80US. However, these same feminists fail to point out the fact that men typically do not quit their jobs to raise a family, are less likely to work part time, are more likely to go into a career path in which one is expected to perform laborious activities in extremely strenuous conditions, and are more likely to retire at a elderly age thereby getting the benefit of seniority. These factors are completely left out to make it seem as if the female population is being oppressed within the working environment. It is up to the individual to choose what career pathway they work in and due to the fact that many women prefer fields that do not require strenuous work or physical labor, naturally, they will be making less money than their male counterparts. Feminism cannot force women into fields that they do not wish to work in.

Abortion-

Regardless of your opinions about the morality of this subject, Feminists constantly argue that this is a woman's rights issue. However, the legality of aborting a human fetus has never been a woman's rights issue; it has always been a human's rights issue and about determining whether or not it is moral to kill a unborn child due to personal choices and/or financial reasons. Feminism is not needed to determine this.

Sexual Violence-

Women are sometimes the victims of sexual violence and Feminists will claim that men need to be taught not to rape. Sexual violence is a very real problem and should not exist. However, the solution that the Feminists have proposed is ineffective for the population as a whole due to the complex ways that one specific human will develop and react to a certain environment when compared to another human. Consider this: If we could reduce the rate of a crime to zero simply by telling someone not to commit it, why does murder still exist in this society? Besides sociopaths and psychopaths, I highly doubt you would run into any man in the street who thinks rape is acceptable.

As a side note, the solution mentioned above implies that all men are potential rapists and need to be feared. With this logic, one can say that all humans are potential murders and need to be taught not to murder. If I recall correctly, I was never taught not to murder and learned simply from observing the reactions of fictitious characters in movies and the people in my surrounding environment. I was only able to do so due to the fact I live in a society that already perceives rape as a heinous crime. Feminism's proposed solution of educating men against it is not the most beneficial to stopping it. A much better solution would be simply to have young males and females be much more cautious when they are out with someone they do not know or trust.

Conclusion-

These constant streams of pseudo problems and duplicitous claims leads me to the conclusion that Feminists are simply trying to find anything to latch on to, victimizing themselves in the most bizarre ways imaginable in order to stay relevant.
JohnMaynardKeynes

Pro

I accept this debate.


Resolved: Feminism creates pseudo problems and is nowhere near as relevant as Feminists claim it is



Pseudo
-- "not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham." [1. http://tinyurl.com...]

Problem
-- "a question proposed for solution or discussion." [2. http://tinyurl.com...]


Because I am PRO, I will be arguing in favor of this resolution. CON will try to refute this resolution.



I will now point out why this debate is already over.

CON states, "In this day in age, I have been noticing a few feminists creating a series of pseudo-problems such as "there aren't enough women in video games" when clearly these 'problems' have simple answers."

He has conceded that feminism has created pseudo-problems.


He goes on to make the same statement upon concluding:

"These constant streams of pseudo problems and duplicitous claims leads me to the conclusion that Feminists are simply trying to find anything to latch on to, victimizing themselves in the most bizarre ways imaginable in order to stay relevant."

He again repeats that feminism creates, as he says, "pseudo problems" and that feminists are essentially desperate to stay relevant, from which we draw the view that feminism isn't nearly as relevant as feminists would have you think.


At this point, the debate ia already over. CON has already conceded the debate and backed my position.

For fun, I will address the rest of his arguments and explain how they also further the position I am defending as PRO.

CON states, "video game designers are catering to the majority in order to make a profit and not to 'oppress' women. What exactly is to be gained financially by appealing to the demands of the minority of your customer base? Causes like this are near pointless due to the fact they are overanalyzed until they become a direct threat and/or threat against women."

CON concedes that the problem he claims that feminists cite -- not enough women in video games -- is merely to make a profit and is a matter of business savvy, not of oppressing woman. He claims that this is a pointless cause which is overanalyzed and sensationalized to virtually no end. This is a position in support of my position because women in video games is a pseudo-problem, and CON admits to this.



Wage Gap


Con states, "Moving on to women in the workplace, Feminists will argue that for every $1.00US a man makes a woman will make $0.80US. However, these same feminists fail to point out the fact that men typically do not quit their jobs to raise a family, are less likely to work part time, are more likely to go into a career path in which one is expected to perform laborious activities in extremely strenuous conditions, and are more likely to retire at a elderly age thereby getting the benefit of seniority. These factors are completely left out to make it seem as if the female population is being oppressed within the working environment. It is up to the individual to choose what career pathway they work in and due to the fact that many women prefer fields that do not require strenuous work or physical labor, naturally, they will be making less money than their male counterparts. Feminism cannot force women into fields that they do not wish to work in."

Of course, every single point here, from "feminists fail to point to the fact...[...]" down is an argument in favor of my position. He explains that the "equal pay for equal work" argument is merely a sham -- a pseudo-problem -- and there are a number of factors that feminists have discounted. This is obviously an argument in favor of my position.


I would like to expand on this argument regarding this by backing it up with some epirics.

Economist Stephen Moore says the following, essentially saying the same thing that CON has said:

"President Obama uses the figure of 77 cents earned by a woman for every dollar earned by a man. But that is a comparison of all women with all men (and even Mr. Obama’s own economists say a woman earns 81 cents for every dollar earned by her male counterpart). In fact, a 2009 Labor Department study found that, when we control for work experience and education, the gap is only about 5 percent. And when we account for the fact that men are more likely to be injured or suffer an accident on the job, and do riskier work and often more unpleasant jobs than women, the gap virtually disappears." [3. http://tinyurl.com...]

Moore pointed to a 2009 study from the Department of Labor which note shtat, if we control for work and education, the vast majority of the gap dissipates. If we add in on-the-job risk, the gap essentially dissipates. This makes the wage gap a "pseudo problem." Moore went on to point out that, among surveys of recent college graduates, there there is virtually no pay discrepancy. He calls this notion of a gender-pay gap "as outdated as bell-bottom jeans" -- in other words, a pseudo problem.

Moore goes on to say, the following, calling this issue a distraction from the real problem which is falling pay generally speaking, even though female pay hasn't following as much as male pay:

"Gender gaps in pay are also a distraction from the other real financial problem, which is declining pay for almost all groups. Between 2009 and 2012, every racial group and both genders have done worse. Actually, women’s paychecks have fallen slightly more than men’s in this phony recovery." [3. http://tinyurl.com...]

Therefore, the wage gap is indeed a pseudo-problem.

Abortion

CON states, "Regardless of your opinions about the morality of this subject, Feminists constantly argue that this is a woman's rights issue. However, the legality of aborting a human fetus has never been a woman's rights issue; it has always been a human's rights issue and about determining whether or not it is moral to kill a unborn child due to personal choices and/or financial reasons. Feminism is not needed to determine this."

CON again affirms my position! Abortion is not a matter of feminism or women's rights; it's a matter of people, especially people with deeply-held religious beliefs who believe that abortion is murder, fighting for whom they consider to be the most vulnerable among them. They feel as though they have an obligation to protect those people. It is not about oppressing women, but about protecting human life. CON completely concedes this point.

It's also possible to address abortion as a "pseudo-problem" from a different angle; one could say that, given the current composition of the court and the current legality of abortion, there is almost no way -- especially with a pro-choice Democratic president -- that Roe v. Wade would be overturned. Therefore, clamoring over abortion is a "pseduo problem" because there isn't a high likelihood at all that it will actually be banned. And even in the off-chance that Roe is overturned, it would simply return to the states, the vast majority of which would keep it legal.

Sexual Violence

CON once again made the point for me: sexual violence is a very big problem -- that doesn't, of course, refute the resolution, because as long as I can prove that feminism creates pseudo problems (I have done so), it holds, and sexual violence exists independent of feminism, anyway -- but the feminist solution, which is largely a fallacy of composition presuming that men are ipso facto bad is simply wrong and unproductive, and telling people "not to do X" isn't necessarily going to stop them. A broader, more comprehensive solution is needed and we need a more open dialogue, rather than a diatribe against an entire group of people just because they happen to be male.

Sexual violence also occurs against men [4. http://tinyurl.com...]. Why don't they bring it up?


Relevancy

CON has already conceded this point, as well, but I'm going to address it further.

There's been some polling on this subject, and we know that about 72% of Americans do NOT identify as feminists [5. http://tinyurl.com...]. Moreover, only 18 percent of men and 38 percent of women accept the label. If we look at the Baby Boomer generation, only 41 percent identify as feminists. Only 28 percent of women over 65, only 42 percent of millenials, and only 32 percent of Gen X women identify as feminists.

The poll was clear about how Americans view feminism as well:

"It is negative associations people carry regarding feminism that causes Americans to shy away from the label. People are twice as likely to consider calling someone a feminist to be an insult (23 percent) rather than a compliment (12 percent)." [5.http://tinyurl.com...].

People do not view feminism fondly. Despite the fact that some would argue that feminism is only about equality, this is a flat-out distortion, and the vast plurality of the American public does not share such a view. They see it as an insult, and believe that the way we solve this issue is to work together rather than alienate and attack each other. Feminism is therefore irrelevant.


Conclusion

As I pointed out earlier, CON has already conceded the debate. I am PRO, and therefore am affirming the resolution. As CON, he needs to negate the resolution. He has failed to do so.

Vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 1
PrimeLunatic

Con

Looks like I foolishly selected 'con' instead of 'pro' without realizing it, allowing my opponent to take my argument.

This will not happen in the future.

I concede.
JohnMaynardKeynes

Pro

I thank CON for his gracious concession.
Debate Round No. 2
Debate Round No. 3
JohnMaynardKeynes

Pro

Extending again.
Debate Round No. 4
JohnMaynardKeynes

Pro

Vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by PrimeLunatic 2 years ago
PrimeLunatic
I would like to post this same argument again soon while taking the pro side.
Posted by JohnMaynardKeynes 2 years ago
JohnMaynardKeynes
lol I was playing devil's advocate.
Posted by Installgentoo 2 years ago
Installgentoo
Prepare to be bullied by angry feminists!
Posted by JohnMaynardKeynes 2 years ago
JohnMaynardKeynes
Hey, would you mind posting a few more times so this debate isn't just sitting here?
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Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
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Vote Placed by Grayneer 2 years ago
Grayneer
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Vote Placed by Mikal 2 years ago
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