The Instigator
TheBenC
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Feminism is Wrong

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/21/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 613 times Debate No: 95546
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (0)

 

TheBenC

Pro

Open to anyone. Start the debate right away. He we gooo!

Feminism in it's current form is a terrible sexist movement that needs to die a quick and painful death. First wave feminism was about gaining equal rights. Second wave feminism was about gaining respect. Third wave intersectional feminism is not about those ideals. It is about making women superior to men.
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69

Con

Feminism is NOT about trying to be superior over men. Feminism is based on trying to gain respect and earn what we should have had a long time ago. The power to be paid like men are, and the power not to be judged by the fact that we are WOMEN doing MANLY things. Women are treated like they are only good enough to take care of their husband (boyfriend or lover as well) for their sexual needs and their hunger. No. Women are so much more than that . Then, on top of that women are paid WAY less than men. For example I did some research and I looked on this site www.iwpr.org it says " Women, in 2015 were paid 80 cents for every dollar made by men . " No. That isn't a huge difference, but it adds up.
Debate Round No. 1
TheBenC

Pro

"The power to be paid like men are" - Women do get paid like men get paid. The wage gap is a myth. Men make more overall because of the jobs they choose. Women choose lower paying and more comfortable jobs while men do more dangerous and higher paying jobs. If women got paid less for doing the same exact job, everyone would hire women!
"the power not to be judged by the fact that we are WOMEN doing MANLY things" - People get judged for everything they are and everything they do. It is human nature to evaluate people. I never heard of this being a problem for women. Seeing a woman do some major welding on the frame of a classic car is unusual but most men would enjoy seeing it. I have no idea what you think the problem is.
"Women are treated like they are only good enough to take care of their husband (boyfriend or lover as well) for their sexual needs and their hunger" - Who does that? What is this, the 1950s? I am calling BS! In modern western society women are not viewed this way. There are some dummies who do but that is rare and our society as a whole looks at them like they are fools.
"Then, on top of that women are paid WAY less than men." - Are you sure about that or are you just stating random figures that compare men's and women's earnings overall?
"I looked on this site www.iwpr.org it says " Women, in 2015 were paid 80 cents for every dollar made by men ."" - Yeah, you are comparing overall figures. Men are not "paid" more. Men "earn" more. Men go into higher paying and more dangerous jobs. That means they get paid more. It is only natural for oil miners to be paid more than a middle school teacher. Women tend to be teachers while men go off and risk their lives on an oil rig.

2 of your points are identical and flat out wrong. If you truly believe this then you are fighting AGAINST the woman's right to decide for herself what she wants to do. You are saying women should go for jobs where they can earn more money instead of jobs they truly want. You think women get paid less for the same identical job but that is flat out wrong and illegal. I think we have a feminist paradox where feminism is saying women should have less rights!
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69

Con

As my rebuttal, I stated that women make way less than men. You say that it isn't the case. You aren't looking at the facts right, then. That was a comparison. When we were debating in the comments as well, you stated that women are paid more. No they aren't in most cases, and when they are being paid more, it's less than a $0.10 difference!!! No, you say I may not be correct, but in the end I AM stating facts. I'm not being taken seriously because I'm young, and I understand that. But, I can make a stand point to be correct in the end. My mother and father went into the same work force, took the exact job. They compared checks at the end of every two weeks and my mother always made less.

"Women choose lower paying and more comfortable jobs while men do more dangerous and higher paying jobs".
No, not all women do. Some women, such as my aunt, work at places such as Olin Brass Company ( where I'm from). So this just knocks that rebuttal out the ball park. Women ARE just as capable as men. Women aren't as strong, but they are wise, just as men, and can do things.

"There are some dummies who do but that is rare and our society as a whole looks at them like they are fools" Well where I was from, it was common. I seen this all the time. It was just something that looked normal in my city. This, for that reason caused us to leave the city. We didn't ever go back there, and haven't ever went back to this day.

"Women tend to be teachers while men go off and risk their lives in an oil rig." Well, in this case you're stating that its almost unethical to find a woman working in an oil rig, because they would rather be teachers. Well, that's basically a sexist statement in itself.

"I think we have a feminist paradox where feminism is saying women should have less rights!" You are correct, in a stand point. But, you are also wrong. Because, what I am fighting for in feminism, and sexism is that everyone can do everything, and not be judged for it.

It's something that I feel I stand for. You have very valid points, but I'm still going to believe in that everyone needs to be equal. Women, African American, Caucasian American ! We all are missing our equality.
Debate Round No. 2
TheBenC

Pro

"I stated that women make way less than men" - Yeah and what is wrong with that? It is a byproduct of the choices women make.There is actually a trend where single women under 30 make more than men their age.In some cities it is up to 20% more. http://content.time.com...

"No, not all women do." Correct, but it is the overall trend that women in general choose specific types of jobs. They can go work in a dangerous and higher paying job if they want to but they don't. Women are not as capable as men in some areas. When the job requires strength and physical stamina it is rare that a woman can do the job as well as a man. Lifting really heavy things is not something most women would even want to do for a living.

I used to work in a copper/brass factory. It had a few women. They worked in the shipping department, cleanest and safest part of the company.

"you're stating that its almost unethical to find a woman working in an oil rig, because they would rather be teachers." - Well if women want to be teachers they should be teachers. That is just what society is. Women can work on oil rigs if they want to and are physically capable but that is not what they want to do.

" everyone can do everything, and not be judged for it." - No, not at all. Women can't be a starting QB in the NFL. Men cannot play in the WNBA. If Bruce Jenner tries to be in the olympics as a female he should be judged for it.

My young opponent has done a decent job but said nothing that makes this new wave feminism appealing. Feminists won the argument a long time ago and need to stop arguing. Nothing can be done to close the wage gap because it is a byproduct of choices women make. Now feminism is nothing but making women superior. They want to make it appear that men are nothing but perverted woman hating bullies. There are many feminists who are outright man haters (Andrea Dworkin).
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69

Con

You are correct. I'm stating reasons as to why I believe in feminism. No, I am not a strong feminist. I just believe in the rights of man and woman. I mean, for example, you go to play a game such as Battle of The Sexes. Then, you notice how sexist to both genders it really is. That's the type of stuff I promote to fight for.

"Now feminism is nothing but making women superior." In some cases, it is. But in most cases over 60 percent of people don't even want anything but to be equal to men. http://www.huffingtonpost.com... . If you don't believe me there's an article.

" There are many feminists who are outright man haters (Andrea Dworkin) ." Yes, but do you even know how many women/men are even feminists? less than 30 percent. https://www.washingtonpost.com... . However, women who want to be superior to men are NOT feminist, that is actually called Misandry, the hatred of men

Look in to many reasons. Don't judge off the first thing you see. Feminism is the equality of the sexes. Thank you for this debate. Hope to see you in another debate.
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 2 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Iacov// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments), 2 points to Con (Sources). Reasons for voting decision: I feel most both presented their arguments very well however pro had a stronger defense. Now regarding sources yes con had more sources being 2 to 1 both time and huffingtonpost have a long history of being extremely biased. Washington is guilty of this as well but not nearly as much as the others.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter needs to specifically assess arguments made by both sides, and fails to do so for either one. (2) Sources are insufficiently explained. The voter is required to award these points partially based on quality, and while bias may play a role in that, the voter has to assess the article cited and not just their own personal feelings on the sources in general. Awarding points on the basis of quantity is insufficient.
************************************************************************
Posted by whiteflame 2 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: PervRat// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: The meat of pro's remarks were completely unsupported, and never attempted to establish them. Con successfully disproved some of the important claims Pro made (such as "Women do get paid like men get paid" which pro later backtracked on and said they don't, but its the fault of the women because of their choices ... ???) To be honest, grammar was lackluster on both sides.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain conduct. (2) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter is required to assess arguments made by both sides. He only does this for Pro, simply saying that Con's rebuttals are successful without explaining how.
************************************************************************
Posted by He_Needs_Some_Milk_69 2 months ago
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69
I've been showing proof.
Posted by He_Needs_Some_Milk_69 2 months ago
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69
I've been showing proof.
Posted by straightup.gong 2 months ago
straightup.gong
It'd be nice to see sources from both sides of the argument so I can trust this information.
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
BackCommander
@TheBenC Feminists only ever bring up the fact that men have problems, when they're accused of being a sexist organization. They only say that their movement is about us too because it makes them sound less selfish.
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
BackCommander
@He_Needs_Some_Milk_69
TheBenC already explained to you that women EARN less than men do. If the only evidence you have for women getting paid less for the same job is in fields where you are paid based on ability or popularity then you're only making women look bad. No one feels like taking the hour out of their day to explain to you why the wage gap isn't sexist because you can just as easily look up that information on your own. I'll give you the quick run down though. Women, statistically, tend to work more part time as opposed to men working mostly full time. Women take time off work while pregnant and often for awhile after the birth to take care of their child, men usually don't. A man is more likely to get aggressive about getting a raise he deserves and a woman is more likely to choose to avoid that conflict. As far as psychologists, medical professionals, and athletes are concerned, people seem to prefer that they speak to and get medical advise from men as opposed to women, seeing as men in those fields always see at least twice the number of patients their female counterparts do, per year. All male sports do better in terms of views and merchandise sales, therefore those who own the teams have more money, and can afford to pay their players more. That's how entertainment works. Same with actors and actresses, the more you make, the more you can demand to make.

To summarize this, there's a gap in the annual earnings of the average male and female. It isn't due to sexism, it's just a side effect of the differences between the choices men and women make.
Posted by TheBenC 2 months ago
TheBenC
Gong...when was the last time you saw a feminist bring up issues about pro-men? That is not feminism. That is egalitarianism. Feminism is not about equality now. It was about that but now it is all about promoting women. Seriously...when do feminists ever bring up the fact that men have any problems?
Posted by He_Needs_Some_Milk_69 2 months ago
He_Needs_Some_Milk_69
I believe in the rights of everyone. But he stated that women are going out and fighting to be superior to men. I personally believe that women should be equal to men. I believe that everyone should be equal to everyone.
Posted by straightup.gong 2 months ago
straightup.gong
Feminism is not only about women being accepted, but also about men. More men commit suicide than women due to the fact that most men don't talk about their feelings because that shows weakness and it's a "woman thing". I'm a feminist because when a woman says she's been raped, most ask what she was wearing. And men victims of rape aren't taken seriously because it's presumed that all men want sex. I'm a feminist because society considers it normal to cut off part of an infants penis.

Also, there different kinds of feminism, such as liberal feminism, socialist feminism, cultural feminism, radical feminism, etc. Not all "feminists" have their priority straight and those people shouldn't represent this movement. People like to focus on the bad stuff about certain types of feminism. I want equality for everyone. Sadly, not all feminists think that way, but that doesn't define the entire movement.
No votes have been placed for this debate.