Feminism is bad for society
Debate Rounds (3)
DATXDUDE forfeited this round.
Again, sincere apologies.
Modern feminism is harmful for many reasons. The first hint at this is the prefix "Fem", or about women. Not about men, because feminism doesn't care about inequality towards men. (Child support, divorce issues, lack of attention to male issues, gender stereotypes (Be a man, don't cry, etc.)
Now, I would like to address the issue of the "wage gap". The wage gap of 77% was a statistic measured many years ago. This is just assuming this statistic is true, which it probably isn't anyways, because when you factor in the fact that women take jobs that pay less anyways, this issue goes away. (It has been proven that women take jobs involving social sciences more, which pay less than hard science jobs that men are more interested in.)
Next I would like to address the issue of domestic violence. Is domestic violence against women a problem? Yes. Of course it is. However, statistics have pointed out that close to 40% of domestic violence victims are men. Little to no attention has been given to this issue, because of feminist double standards.
Finally, I would like to address body image. Are women pressured to stay thin? As with domestic violence, yes. They are. But, again, so are men. Men are also subject to the "body norms" of society. This is an undeniable fact. (Not saying this is a good thing, standards for beauty need to be eliminated for both sexes, and the fact that they are still in place proves what a shallow society we are.)
If you took the time to read this, thank you. I don't expect you to respond, but very much welcome one.
I’m happy Pro returned so that we could have one round.
Feminism is not exclusive to women
Pro’s first argument is that feminism as a movement applies only to the rights of women. His only support is the appearance of the prefix “fem-”. The sentiment is unfortunately common, but that’s only because feminism is widely misunderstood.
What feminists strive for is equality, period. Pro quotes the phrases “be a man, don’t cry, etc.” as examples of feminists using male gender stereotypes. But this is precisely the kind of thing that feminists are opposed to. The idea that men should keep their feelings bundled up because they’re men is repugnant to feminists.
So if feminism is for both women and men, why have a name that’s not gender-neutral?
Because many more political, economic, cultural, and social rights need to be established for women than for men. Due to the structure of society and gender norms, supporters of equality should naturally prioritize women since the work needed to promote fairness for men is not as paramount. There may be many instances where men face problems and stress due to their gender but they have had much less of a struggle than women.
Just to solidify feminism’s inclusion of men, I quickly did a google search for feminist websites and here’s what I found from ones that showed up on the front page
Feminism is a movement dedicated to gender equality. Yet plenty of people still interpret feminism as an effort to prioritize women over other groups — like, for example, the many Men’s Rights Activists who believe feminists are concerned with destroying men by falsely accusing of them of crimes like rape and denying them other rights.
In reality, feminists do not want to destroy or hate men, but rather alter social, political and economic structures so that people of all gender identities can live equally.
The existing system, known as the patriarchy, doesn’t only disadvantage women but yields multiple types of oppression, including forms that hurt men.
This is why men are not only capable of identifying as feminist, but can benefit from the movement as well.
This was the first website that came up and it clearly demonstrates a concern for the equality of men.
From the executive director of the site:
...She [his wife] was the earner and he was a homemaker. After she tragically died in childbirth, he was told he could not receive her social security benefits...This is a good example of how gender discrimination is bad for everyone. [We need to] tear down those barriers so a woman or a man could pursue whatever path in life they had the G-d given talent to pursue.
Features a Men & Women as Allies initiative on its front page and mentions supporting "a world where men and women are allied, empowered and equal" http://goo.gl...
Links to the site NOMAS which is dedicated to enhancing men's lives" as well as “challenging the old-fashioned rules of masculinity that embody the assumption of male superiority. Traditional masculinity includes many positive characteristics in which we take pride and find strength, but it also contains qualities that have limited and harmed us". -from NOMAS
These websites are indicative of the sentiments felt by most feminists--they wouldn’t be so popular if otherwise. It’s easy to find extremists calling themselves feminists who make ridiculous claims like all heterosexual sex is rape, but they are not at all representative of the group.
Please note that Pro does not directly relate this to the resolution. If the wage gap is not an issue--which it almost undeniably is--that doesn’t entail that feminism is harmful. I fail to see an argument. It’s merely preemptive.
Pro’s entire argument hinges on women desiring lower-paying jobs than men. The fact is that women face a wage-gap in nearly every occupation, from male-dominated occupations, gender balanced jobs, and even female-dominated fields. Pro doesn’t bother to argue against the 77% figure. His only argument is invalid based on the facts I just stated. http://goo.gl...
Pro touches on an issue which is that women are vastly underrepresented in STEM fields. This itself is a pressing problem. The US has a growing shortage of scientists and engineers. Women need to cease being subconsciously discouraged from traditionally masculine occupations. I’d like to see evidence that STEM careers are biologically masculine oriented--that is, not dominated by males due to culture and social pressure. Pro’s defense only makes sense if it is inherently part of the biological makeup of men and women that make men lean towards STEM.
Women choose not to study STEM for the same reasons many men do: culture. 74% of high school student boys choose not to study physics. That decision is made without any prior interaction with the subject. It’s a safe assumption that this implies most boys make the judgement based on perceptions about science that exist in our culture. For boys, physics is a nonconformist activity. For girls, it is more so. Both choose not to study it for cultural reasons. Girls more so are taught to see it as unattractive. For boys, science may be seen as socially unattractive and nerdy. However, "women face a double social barrier because science is regarded as both unfeminine and nonconformist". It's pivotal to the furthering of scientific advancement that we insure women are encouraged to develop scientific interests. This is a cultural obstacle and thus can be changed. Feminism seeks to break down these barriers. Imagine if Emmy Noether, one of the most important mathematicians for physics in the 20th century had succumbed to societal pressures and taught French instead of pursuing mathematics? or had given up after universities refused to give her pay or title despite her being a mathematical genius, as other imminent physicists attested to? How many Emmy Noethers or Marie Curries have we missed out on because of gender prejudice against female scientists? The world is in need of more scientists and engineers and feminists seek to make sure more women have the opportunity to fulfill this need. The world runs on science and engineering, so this is obviously one case in which feminism is very important and beneficial to society. http://goo.gl...
Studies show that countries with greater gender equality "had smaller gender gaps in math". Given the opportunity, women will do just as well as men. http://goo.gl...
RE: Not just women suffer from gender prejudice
Yes, I heartily agree that men suffer from gender prejudice. Pro’s just preaching to the choir. Body image effects both men and women and men are also victims of domestic violence. Those claims are true. I could add that men are often reflected as being incapable of sexual restraint and unable to control their natural urges. That’s a very demeaning assumption and I’ve personally seen many feminists--both men and women--defending men against such caricatures. Feminists don’t like misandry any more than misogyny.
People are feminists for different reasons and there’s a whole spectrum of attitudes towards a variety of issues. Domestic violence is just one of many issues that tends to be important to many feminists. And there are many subsets of domestic violence. If we look at sexual violence and stalking, then that is more of a concern for women. On the other side, violence against men tends to get trivialized. That is a valid concern and feminists should push against it.
Another point I’d like to make is that campaigning against domestic violence is a good thing and, if feminists are ignorant of the extent to which women are the perpetrators, that does not change the value of fighting against domestic violence for when women are the victims. It means that feminists should shift their focus somewhat, but they’re still doing allot of good. It’s not harmful.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con for Pro's forfeiture. Con is the only one to have used sources so he gains those points. Arguments to Con as not only did he outright refute everything that Pro had said, but we can see that Con exspanded a platform upon that and since Pro did not have a rebuttal we can see that Con's points stand and thus Con wins the debate.
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