The Instigator
StupidPeopleSuck
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Cassie412
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Feminism is irrelevant, unjust and flawed. It should be stopped.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Cassie412
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2014 Category: People
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,619 times Debate No: 59915
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
Votes (1)

 

StupidPeopleSuck

Pro

Feminism is retarded.

Nuff Said.
Cassie412

Con

I accept the challenge. I assume we're using dictionary definitions for this?
Debate Round No. 1
StupidPeopleSuck

Pro

No were not going to use the dictionary definition because modern day feminists don't actually adhere to the dictionary definition. Instead they try to refute that men are the sole cause of all women suffering and oppression and that men have diabolically placed themselves at the top of society in order to use women for their own personal needs.
Cassie412

Con

I would consider myself a feminist, and I certainly do not believe that men are responsible for all oppression of women. Since I refuse to use your biased definition, I will refer to good ol' Webster for the meaning: Feminism: The theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. In other words, women should have equal rights and opportunities as men.
If the proposition that women and men should be considered as equal human beings sounds "irrelevant, unjust, and flawed," to you, then I hope you come to realize that males are no greater or lesser than females in value and should be treated equally.
I also have to note that I think your definition of feminism is contradictory. You say modern day feminists "refute" (meaning to prove wrong) that men are solely to blame for the suffering and oppression of women. You wrote, in effect, that feminists do NOT think this. That is the interpretation of "refute," anyway.
Feminism does not mean hatred of the male species. That is not equality. True feminists do not despise males because men have had more societal and political power and opportunity up until recently. Feminism is simply a movement for the equality of men and women. Misandry is not feminism.
Debate Round No. 2
StupidPeopleSuck

Pro

Forgive me for my shoddy grammar and the incorrect use of refute. I did not proof read my argument well enough obviously. You really have to understand what modern day mainstream-media feminism entails. If feminism was JUST about females being equal to men, then everyone would acknowledge its place in society. The truth is, females have been equal to men for a long time. There continues to be more and more laws and bills passed in favor of women over men; especially concerning birth and child custody rights. Among this, there are also bills which protect women experiencing domestic violence (yet surprisingly enough, there is no such bill for men). We live in a society today where both men and women are equal. While both may have different roles according to social norm, that does mean that the two genders are unequal. But I digress...

Back to my main point, the mainstream media feminism of today is full of misandry. Go look at feminist blogs, feminism websites, etc. This has only occurred because feminism has no place anymore in society. Since women now have equality, privileged females, who know NOTHING of the true struggles of the women of the past, have nothing left to stand for. Now what's left is a large group of females who like to point the finger at men for every little inconvenience in their lives. Its idiotic, moronic, and is only poisoning the minds of young females such as yourself. Stop putting yourself in a box and trying to depict living a life without equality. You already have freedom and equality, reach for it and take it. Make something of yourself and leave this nonsense behind.
Cassie412

Con

If I understand your position correctly, (and I may not, so tell me if the situation is different) you believe that the equality of men and women is logical and right. However, you think feminists nowadays have no leg to stand on (equality with men has been achieved) and thus are left to resort to misandry and exaggerating their "suffering" (placing the blame on men).
I am not going to use outdated and false arguments about the wage gap and male dominance in the workplace to try to prove that women and men are not totally equal. Women have more equality today than they have ever had in history, and I in no way am trying to say that we have anything near resembling the struggles for equality of the past. One thing that I feel many feminists think is lacking is gender respect.

Please don't misunderstand me, there are huge quantities of men who treat women fairly and respectfully. However, there are also many who hold an unfair bias towards women. I see it in my school, in the media, in day-to-day interactions. It is the assumption that, because a person is female, they must therefore be inferior.
Do you want examples?
School: Refusal to accept girls onto a recess sports game. Teasing. I know, "they're just kids," right? But isn't that kind of indicative as to what type of people those kids will grow up to be?
Media: Portrayal of women in advertising. Relative lack of positive role models in entertainment.
Day-to-day: Assumption a male serviceperson is more capable than a female one.
I have seen all these things time and time again.

Once again, don't misunderstand me. This problem is two-sided. Women can be jerks. And they are! I am fully aware of the hordes of women who use the label of feminism as a feeble excuse to persecute men for what they falsely perceive as sexism. This is wrong. I cannot stress this enough. Lumping all men into an imaginary cesspool of ignorance and chauvinism is wrong.

There are several points on which I agree with you: feminism is flawed, just like everything, and the mainstream media is full of misandry. I do not condone misandry, nor do I pretend that men and women are greatly or even moderately unequal in politics, economics, and society today. Not in most countries, at least. But feminism's noble ideals, the ideals that men and women should be considered equal and treated that way, (ideals with which we both agree, I believe) do not change because of the actions and words of a group of man-hating fools. To put it in simpler terms, just because someone claims a label doesn't mean that it applies to them. Like the oft-used argument that "Hitler was a Christian," that logic is incorrect. Would a follower of the Judeo-Christian God commit an atrocious genocide against the Chosen People? No. Similarly, would people who believe that men and women deserve equality berate and despise the entirety of one gender for the oppressive actions of a few? No.

Feminism is associated with hatred of all males, but I, and many others, both men and women, know that is not what it stands for. It is simply the goal for equality. Men respecting women and women respecting men. I hope one day misandry and misogyny will be flushed into the metaphorical sewers of forgotten idiocy and we will be left with the situation that should have always been: total respect and equality for all.
Debate Round No. 3
StupidPeopleSuck

Pro

Many of the social standards for males and females are created by society... Not just men. Women are equally to blame for creating their social norms as men are, and vice-versa. Also, the whole kid on the soccer team picking the girl last has little to do with social norms. For starters, most children like to associate with their own gender because children are shy, undeveloped, and unable to express feelings. This means that they are most likely going to associate with people who are most similar to them. Had a girl been picking the teams, I doubt the girl children would have been picked last at recess. In the media, men are equally portrayed as evil sex-craving addicts who objectify and sexualize women etc. Its really no different. Equality doesn't necessarily mean everyone has to be treated the same, it just means everyone needs to be treated fairly. Would you like women to be portrayed in the media as oppressive sex fiends? No you would not. The bottom line is women are already equal. Women and men are equal. Equal, but different.
Cassie412

Con

I have stated in my past arguments and am reasserting now that men and women must bear an equal portion of blame. I am not condemning social norms, because a member of either gender may follow them or not if they so wish, but rather speak against the stereotypes that one gender imposes on another. "Men are pigs!" or "Women are insane!" Again, both men and women are guilty of this.
Furthermore, addressing the teams chosen at recess, not all young boys discriminate against the girls who want to play. Some are very polite and accepting, but it is the ones who are not who will grow to be biased if their opinions are not changed. Some girls tease and shun boys, as well. And those are the people who will be more likely to lean towards misandry, if they never grow out of it.

I have to disagree with your opinion on how men are portrayed in the media. They are not typically "evil sex-craving addicts," as you say, but characterized as strong, intelligent, masculine, and independent. Heroes, or at least lovable underdogs, are a common role for males in movies, whereas the supporting female lead is normally only beautiful, one-dimensional, and waits to be saved by the male. (Watch a bunch of superhero movies; you'll see what I mean). There are exceptions to all stereotypes, however.

Lastly, women and men are not equal. The fact is, a portion of both men and women continue to exalt their own gender and vilify the opposite sex. These misguided opinions are why feminism remains relevant and just. Although men and women are different, both physically and psychologically, their equality is achievable. It just has not happened yet, and both sides have some work to do.
Debate Round No. 4
StupidPeopleSuck

Pro

Feminism should have died in the 80s
Cassie412

Con

Thanks to feminism not dying in the 1980s, the following events were made possible in the 1990s and 2000s.
-1991: the U.S. Senate voted to open combat positions for women aviators.
-1992: four more women were elected into the U.S. Senate.
-1994: the Gender Equity in Education Act was passed, banning gender stereotyping and discrimination in the classroom.
-1994: marital rape was banned in the UK.
-1994: the Violence Against Women Act was passed in the U.S.
-2007: the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act was passed in the UK.
-2013: the first ever woman to bring a gender discrimination lawsuit in China won her case and received an official apology from the discriminating party.
Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Feminism still has a place because not all men respect women equally, and vice versa. However, both men and women are on the right track to gender equality. Feminism is not irrelevant or unjust; a movement for equal gender rights is neither of those things. Misandry and misogyny will not go down without a fight, and feminism is part of that battle.
Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by The_Immortal_Emris 3 years ago
The_Immortal_Emris
argued*
Posted by The_Immortal_Emris 3 years ago
The_Immortal_Emris
Cassie, well argues all around. And way to keep a cool head amid the misogyny.
Posted by Cassie412 3 years ago
Cassie412
I already said in the debate that I am extremely grateful for the rights that I have. Also, if women worldwide are being oppressed, such as in Somalia or Yemen as you said, would feminism not be relevant for them? This isn't just about feminism in the U.S.
Posted by ben671176 3 years ago
ben671176
When I meant "They are raped. And they are to blame." I meant that in those societies they are the ones that are (wrongly) blamed.
Posted by ben671176 3 years ago
ben671176
And I feel Cassie should go to Somalia or Yemen and see how worthless women are at those places. How farm animals are worth something more than women and when women are raped there. They are the ones to blame. And see how much she has, not how much she can gain.
Posted by ben671176 3 years ago
ben671176
I feel like stupid people suck is a side profile of Casie's.
Posted by codegrey 3 years ago
codegrey
Pro showed impeccable reasoning skills and deserves the victory in this debate. The superior communication skills and analytical ability trump anything con has to offer. Great job Pro!
Posted by StupidPeopleSuck 3 years ago
StupidPeopleSuck
I guess this website is full of stupid bored teenage girls who don't realize how privileged they really are... So Typical
Posted by StupidPeopleSuck 3 years ago
StupidPeopleSuck
Not just because I agree with him, but Mister_Man has a point. That's why i did not want to use the webster dictionary definition. Second of all no Cassie, it says FOR women. That insinuates that women are below men and need to be brought up to standard. It does NOT insinuate that both men and women have inequalities in different aspects and they need to level out to truly become equal. Your logic is flawed.
Posted by Cassie412 3 years ago
Cassie412
The key word in that Wikipedia sentence is "EQUAL political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women." Equal with whom? Men. The equality of the sexes.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
StupidPeopleSuckCassie412Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: A nigh clean-sweep for Con. Between his assertion that the position was "retarded" and his poor S&G, I think those points are clear. Con's single source doesn't quite justify the source points in this debate IMHO. As to arguments, Pro really failed to construct a coherent case for his resolution. Con, in contrast, provided some benefits of feminism that seemed sufficient to negate Pro's case. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.