The Instigator
Pro (for)
The Contender
Con (against)

Feminism is no longer needed.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 327 times Debate No: 94802
Debate Rounds (4)
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The patriarchy, the wage gap, sexism in the workplace and many more. Illogical terms, with no facts backing them up, tailored made for the uninformed masses to consume. In 2016, society has never been more equal, and yet, feminist garbage is spewed over the media, leftism encouraging special treatment for women, social conditioning to ingrain inferiority in men. With all these things, we can discern that feminism is no longer needed.

Graduation rates for males have dropped dramatically since the 1950's, the wage gap has been proven wrong, and women winning custody cases by landslides.

1) Graduation rates / The education system
Informative video:
The average GPA for males have dropped, and the GPA for females have risen over the past few years by a significant amount. This is not due to a sudden change in whichever gender is smarter, but simply, the tailoring of an education system for women. Think about it. When you describe disruptive, noisy, defective, dirty, and many other things in a classroom what comes to your mind? Of course, a boy. This is so because boys have been treated as defective girls in schools. There is a 0.4 - 0.5 GPA gap between females and males (Russell Sage, 2004), with the GPA even increasing to this day. This shows evidence on how the education system is change to tailor towards females more than males.


2) The wage gap
The belief states that for every dollar a man makes in a job, for the exact same job, the woman would make around 66 cents, based on an average made across the United States.

Firstly, the way the data is obtained is extremely flawed. An average then used to compare specific jobs around the world, which doesn't take into account occupation, hours worked, position, and choices each gender makes. The gap between the wages is, in reality, a broad brush calculation across a large demographic.

Secondly, the mere prospect of having men paid more than women in it self is a logical fallacy. If companies could pay women less than males for the same job, companies could gain a gigantic market advantage over competitors spending less on wages for women.

"The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than "77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men." The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That"s not at all the case. "Full time" officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That"s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35." -


3) Custody winnings
For several decades, it has been so that females have a 60% higher change of a custodial win rate than men (Dalrock Wordpress, 2007). This is not due to women being better at winning cases, but pure bias towards women. Males are aggressors, and females are victims, so it goes. This innate belief in most people lead them to believe that the mother is a better care taker than the father. though this may not be an issue if the child can still regularly visit the other parent, it becomes a problem when the father (if he loses) still has to pay a significantly larger amount to child support, even when the mother loses custody ( This shows that even a mother financially incapable of taking care of a child still wins the case, which is nothing but evidence for pure bias.


Good luck to anyone up for the challenge. You'll need it



My opponent begins by saying that because the "patriarchy" and wage gap don't really exist, feminism is therefore obsolete. Of course, I can prove that feminism still has relevance in today's society without upholding the existence of those particular examples. I'd like to point out that if I can provide even just one example of where feminism is relevant, I will have won this debate. I think Pro is the one who needs luck.

Re: Graduation Rates

The fact that men have proven to be academically inferior to women is a useless point. Yes, it highlights that women tend to do better in school environments than men. It doesn't prove that school environments have been "tailored for women" as Pro suggests. Furthermore, even if school environments were tailored for women (which Pro hasn't proven -- he's simply linked to an article showing that girls outperform boys, and a YouTube video which none of us are responsible for watching) that would only prove that society has made it easier for girls vs. boys in one particular forum: education. It wouldn't prove that feminism is obsolete. Moreover, there is evidence of sexism against women in certain areas of academia -- particularly higher education (lower level education favors women) and in the STEM fields. We can explore this further if Pro would like.

Re: The Wage Gap

I will not be arguing in favor of the wage gap.

Re: Custody Cases

Up until the Industrial Revolution (when many men worked far outside the home) custody was almost always given to the fathers. It wasn't until the 1970s when courts began to shift and consider what was in the best interest of the child. According to a study done by the National Survey of Family Growth, a married father spends on average 6.5 hours a week taking part in primary child care activities. The married mother spends on average 12.9 hours. Since the majority of homes now have 2 working parents, these statistics show that mothers are still doing twice as much child care as fathers even while they work outside the home. It only makes sense that mothers who have a closer bond due to the time spent caring for a child be the one more likely to retain primary custody after a divorce [1].

Here's another thing to consider: In 51 percent of custody cases, both parents agreed — on their own — that mom become the custodial parent. In 29 percent of custody cases, the decision was made without any third party involvement. In fact, only 4 percent of custody cases ever go to trial, and only 1.5 percent completed custody litigation. In other words, 91 percent of child custody after divorce is decided with no interference from the family court system at all [2]. Pro says the evidence shows nothing but "pure bias." But how can there be a bias toward mothers when fewer than 4 percent of custody decisions are made by the Family Court? I look forward to Pro's explanation.

The facts of the matter are that fathers are less involved in child care during the marriage, and are overwhelmingly not involved in child care post-divorce -- even though custody arrangements are mostly settled outside of court. Nonetheless, let's suppose there is in fact a huge bias against fathers in the court system. In that case, Pro has just made an argument in my favor. So thanks for that.


Feminism is the supposition that men and women should have equal social, political, and economic rights and opportunities. That doesn't mean that men and women are equal or the same. It means one's sex shouldn't play a significant role in the way they are treated in society. As such, by highlighting examples where men are disadvantaged in society on the basis of their sex (i.e. in family court, in education, etc.) Pro is simply proving the utility of feminism. Since men experience negative sexism and/or social barriers and prejudices for being male, they too can benefit from feminism.

Sexism at Work

While it's true that society is more equal today than ever before, society is still not entirely equal (for lack of a better term) despite Pro's bare assertion to the contrary. Occupational sexism refers to refers to any discriminatory practices, statements, actions, etc. based on a person's sex that are present or occur in a place of employment and research shows it still exists today.

There are 3 common observations on sexism and work:

- Women tend to take on more domestic tasks;
- Women and men are often designated different occupational roles; and
- Women often have lower status and less frequent promotions

These patterns can work as the foreground for the commonality of occupational stereotypes [3].

Researchers analyzed 88 workplace studies published from 1985 to 2012 with 93 independent samples and 73,877 participants. After analyzing data from the 73,877 workers, the researchers found "the more common, less intense forms of gender harassment (like office cultures where sexist jokes are tolerated) appeared as detrimental for women’s occupational well-being as the less frequent, high-intensity incidents (like sexual coercion and unwanted sexual attention)." So while it's usually the far more disgustingly overt sexual harassment that makes headlines, this study suggests that daily sexist jokes and comments made by co-workers can also chip away at a woman’s occupational worth [4].

However we don't have to spend a good deal of time talking about sexism at work unless my opponent feels necessary. As I said, so long as I can prove one instance of where feminism is relevant, I will have won this debate even if there was no such thing as sexism at work. In that case, it should be noted that I have already won this debate. By highlighting instances of sexism against men, my opponent has specified why feminism is still useful today. While feminists focus on women's issues, they do recognize and work on other activist issues pertaining to sex and gender. For example many feminists acknowledge how problematic it is to body shame males as well as females [5].

Violence Against Women

In this debate, I will be highlighting the prevalent issue of violence against women, particularly sexual assault. The frequency of sexual harassment and violence directed at women (and also men -- but women by far) is disturbing. Nearly 1 in 5 women have reportedly experienced rape of some kind [6]. Even the most conservative estimates suggest 5% of women on college campuses experience rape or attempted rape every single year [7]. Alcohol is not a factor in about 1/4 of those cases... even though being intoxicated blurs the lines, it certainly doesn't excuse rape - especially blatant rape such as the rape committed recently by Brock Turner, a Stamford swimmer who received a sentence of about 1 total month in jail for raping an unconscious woman behind a dumpster.

And speaking of "blurred lines," there is arguably a component of our culture that promotes not only complete double standards in how women are allowed to express and engage in their sexuality (especially compared to men), but songs like "Blurred Lines" arguably promote rape in general. Thus there is still some harmful sexism that is negatively impactful in society, and ways in which feminist teachings can improve social norms and well-being for all. Not ALL feminist theoies have to be valid in order for feminism to be relevant.


[7] Kilpatrick, Resnick, Riggierio, Conoscenti, & McCauley, 2007; American College Health Association, 2013
[8] Lisak & Miller, 2002; Mohler-Kuo, et al., 2004
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Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Danielle 2 months ago

First, it's poor conduct to insert arguments into the Comment Section while the debate is still going on (even though it seems this debate isn't going to proceed). Fortunately I've already won this debate... handedly... so it would still be easy to come out the victor even if you feel the need to make my opponent's arguments for him. Nonetheless, just because you don't "take it seriously" that feminism considers issues that go beyond females doesn't make it untrue. It just means your exposure to feminism is limited. I've inserted links into the debate proving feminists care about non-female related issues; feminism is about gender related issues in general (with an emphasis on women, since women have historically been the more oppressed sex). It wasn't due to hypocrisy that the movement's goals shifted -- the goals have quite obviously adjusted to reflect the social norms of the time. As women have attained more rights and equality (thanks to you guessed it: feminism!) the movement's goals and focus have expanded to include more things. That's called evolution, not hypocrisy.
Posted by Davery79 2 months ago
How does Feminism affect transgenders? I think Feminism is on the way out and the LBGTQ community will take it's place.

There will never be perfect equality, as long as men and women are different, which they are, there will always be some sort of inequality in some way shape or form. Unless they are neither one or the other, or both. (sexes)

For instance, women use a different ball in Softball, and in most coed leagues, the team must forfeit the game or take a penalty if they don't have at least one or two women that show up to play. There are rules that favor women, the main purpose is to get more to play, but they will never be as good at sports as men. This does affect both sexes socially, economically, and politically. Women also play from shorter T boxes in golf, this can annoy men when conducting business on the golf course, can hinder womens ability to have social interactions with customers/clients. It might actually be a reason that they won't succeed in that particular job, where a man might be better suited. Sounds sexist, but it is the truth.
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
"Nonetheless, let's suppose there is in fact a huge bias against fathers in the court system. In that case, Pro has just made an argument in my favor. So thanks for that." You're wrong in your claim that feminism is about men as well. Everyone knows that that's a lie, no one takes it seriously.

Feminism-"the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."
Egalitarian"-of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities."

We have a word for those who seek equality for both sexes, it was only recently (historically) that feminism decided it was about men's rights as well due to society pointing out the hypocrisy of the movement. Feminism isn't about men's rights, just as men's rights movements aren't about women's.

Just making a point. This is usually the point where most feminists I know roll their eyes and mutter "mansplaining" under their breath. Ironically embodying sexism, the thing they claim to be against.
Posted by TheBenC 2 months ago
Why use information from 1985? Things have changed in the last 30 years. "In the 80s guys made sexist jokes." Who cares?
Posted by BackCommander 2 months ago
You should specify that Feminism isn't needed in your country, specifically, as Con will simply argue that there are places in the world that are less civilized and still need it.
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