The Instigator
GrayfiaLucifuge
Pro (for)
The Contender
LetsDebatez
Con (against)

Feminism is useless in the west now.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 256 times Debate No: 105595
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

GrayfiaLucifuge

Pro

I firmly believe feminism has outlived it's usefulness in society and no longer has any use in the western world. Con will outline his beliefs in the first round and from there the debate will progress through 2 more rounds with the second and third rounds revolving around our reasons and any factual evidence we may have. To clarify this arguement concerns feminism in its current 3rd wave form in the western world so third world countries have nothing to do with this debate and neither does the past waves of feminism giving women the right to vote and etc. I already accept that those were necessary and thus they have nothing to do with this debate.
LetsDebatez

Con

"I firmly believe feminism has outlived it's usefulness in society and no longer has any use in the western world. " While this statement is not completely false it does have an issue with it, while i do believe that men are women are already equal in western societies in every way possible (if anything its arguable women have more rights nowadays) but it is not useless because when other women from countries like Saudi Arabia or somewhere in the middle east where women are not equal to men look for western countries and see how women are proud to be themselves voice their opinions strongly under a banner (feminism) they can put themselves under that same banner and rise above. while i understand that you "third world countries have nothing to do with this debate" written but it is a only valid reason that feminism in the west is still useful because they can look up to it.

So my argument is, Feminism is useful because other people can look up to it, unite under a banner and feel powerful.
By feel powerful what i mean is when any kind of person is in a group of people who you know are in the group because they share the same ideas (even though almost everyone agrees that both genders are equal) they feel empowered to share them and to be in that group.
Debate Round No. 1
GrayfiaLucifuge

Pro

My opponent is claiming that being part of a group is a singular reason why feminism is a good thing in the west. I will overlook the fact that they deliberately ignored the fact that i mentioned this was in exception to 3rd world countries and unrelated however. I would like to pose to my opponent the idea that is feminism in this country really a role model now? Do you think other countries will really want to follow our example when they look at what feminism has become now and what it is fighting for? Would you not agree that to an outsider looking at what feminism has been reduced too (namely trying to be the biggest victim and wandering around making issues out of thin air so that they have a reason to keep screaming at the top of their lungs) would actually want it? If my opponents argument focuses on this then i will have to oblige and ask that does he really think feminism is setting a good example in its current iteration?
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GrayfiaLucifuge 1 month ago
GrayfiaLucifuge
If my opponent is reading the comments i would like to say as an after thought that you have misunderstood the underlying structure of third wave feminism. Sure the goal may look like it is to be powerful but that is done by creating issues to victimize woman and make it look like society is bullying and oppressing them. Do you really think another country would admire a feminist in the west who is triggered about the fact that men have balls and generally sit with their legs a little wider than women?
Posted by Alden_Kliem 1 month ago
Alden_Kliem
Hey letsdebatez. did you not read the title of the debate? "Feminism is useless in the WEST now"?
you do know that this debate has nothing to do with third world countries.
Why can't the women from third world countries that you care soooooooo much about look up to the lives of women in this society without feminism?
why is feminism needed for women to look up to western values
think it through
Posted by GrayfiaLucifuge 1 month ago
GrayfiaLucifuge
Not to be rude. But if you are calling it arrogance to not understand statistics what does that make individuals such as yourself that don't know the difference between 'pay' and 'wage'?
Posted by GrayfiaLucifuge 1 month ago
GrayfiaLucifuge
I really wish i was debating against you alphamus as you have more of a point i want to get to. There is a bias against feminism because people have woke up and refuse to be stepped on by an ideology that hates them (men). Now i am aware that your first comment is going to be 'but feminism is equality for all genders' which is not true. Google the definiton. It ONLY relates to women. Equality to men. Now egalitarianism relates to both but feminism refuses to accept that. The wage gap does not exist. What people confuse are the terms 'pay' and 'wage' women are payed the same for the same work. Companies don't want to pay more money so if they could pay females less they would hire exclusively females that is just a given. Women tend to pursue different career paths to men and tend to be the ones taking time off for childcare and the like. This leads to a 'pay' gap as they are being payed less money but legally they are payed the same as a man for the same work. This is down to a womens choice and if you argue against that then you are arguing against your own dogma. It's a positive movement is it? a movement that has lost all direction yet still continues to berate people for perceived injustices .. i mean really. Man spreading, Man splaining. Feminism is just trying to make perceived injustices so they're movement is still valid.

If you want some information that proves my point about career paths you have only to look for a study that details college majors and their gender make up. 5 of the lowest college majors are female dominated. Psychology, Childcare, Gender studies etc. 5 of the highest payed are male dominated, Petroleum engineering, oil workers etc. This is a womens choice. Nothing is stopping them.

If you try to refute that feminism hates men or that it is for all genders then answer me this: when have third wave feminists ever done anything about mens issues? child custody in divorces? male suicide rates? alimony in the US? i don't see a single o
Posted by Alphamus 1 month ago
Alphamus
1. There is tremendous bias against feminism in debate.org/youtube comments/reddit/etc. simply because we have a lot of pissed off people who think they understand "statistics", "logic", and "market demand" - when they really don't. Their ignorance is exemplified by the use of such terms.

2. Very few things can be said to be entirely useless. The wage gap is smaller now, but it still exists. Sexism is still a problem, although nowhere near as bad as it was just twenty years ago. Progress is being made, but there's still improvement.

3. Is feminism in the west useless? No, it's a positive movement (in general). Is it important compared to other global issues? Probably not, and will only continue to get less important as social equality is reached.
Posted by LetsDebatez 1 month ago
LetsDebatez
well Alden_Kliem, you should read what i have wrote =)
Posted by Alden_Kliem 1 month ago
Alden_Kliem
MODERN feminism is ruining the west. previous models of feminism are perfectly fine. since the debate is in TODAY'S time, i imaging that letsdebatez is defending modern feminism, at which point i much oppose him.
Posted by GrayfiaLucifuge 1 month ago
GrayfiaLucifuge
If one cannot do so then I would discourage them from taking it as you will only get a similar response. I am interested in open discourse not emotional blackmail and name calling.
Posted by GrayfiaLucifuge 1 month ago
GrayfiaLucifuge
I will encourage anyone to take it who can make a reasoned debate without relying on insults and emotional tirades.
Posted by PointyDelta 1 month ago
PointyDelta
Riven, if you want this one I'll step aside.
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