The Instigator
MRHumble
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Magicr
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Feminist Radicals Hurt Families.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Magicr
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/1/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,464 times Debate No: 24514
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

MRHumble

Pro

Feminism can cause mothers to neglect their children, and look down on men, instilling thoughts of competition that fuel a need for superiority, rather than equilibrium, in relationships with the opposite sex.
Magicr

Con

I accept this debate and will be arguing that radical feminists do not hurt families. Pro has the BoP to show how feminist radicals hurt families.

Definitions:

Radical Feminism can be broken down into:

Radical- favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms:radical ideas [1].

Feminism- the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rightsof women equal to those of men [2].

Hurt- to affect adversely; harm [3].

Family-

a basic social unit consisting of parents and theirchildren, considered as a group, whether dwellingtogether or not: the traditional family.
b. a social unit consisting of one or more adults togetherwith the children they care for [4].

I look forward to my opponent's evidence to back up the statements he made in R1.

Sources:

[1]- http://dictionary.reference.com...
[2]- http://dictionary.reference.com...
[3]- http://dictionary.reference.com...
[4]- http://dictionary.reference.com...;

Debate Round No. 1
MRHumble

Pro

I believe most intelligent people realize now that its smarts and drive, rather than sex or race that can make a person successful. Rather it is the woman or man in the relationship with the career, a highly demanding job will leave you with much less family time. Should a woman with children be willing to sacrifice that family time? Its an individual decision, but anyone that talks down on a stay at home mother is simply wrong, yet successful women today are often scorned when they choose family over their career. Since when is MONEY, more important than your family? Since when are nanny's better than a mother? Since when are we smarter than nature? Women are so sacred to the human race that they are the only ones that can bring new life into existence on our planet.. shouldn't that hold a lot more clout than any job...Funny how we try to be on the side of nature in our politics and economics now days but we would rather ignore it for our personal lives due to hype downplaying the importance of being an involved mother.
It is obvious that intellect and IQ vary from person to person despite sex, however, acknowledging this equality and still placing an often sexist political ideology before the needs of the family as a motivation to be more successful is simply wrong. Despite what a woman is capable of career wise, if she chooses to have children while maintaining a highly demanding career she will often be hard pressed trying to find a balance as a nurturing mother and bread winner. So, why do women often feel due to the propaganda in our society, that as a "housewife" they are fulfilling an inferior role, when in fact, they have the most influence on the most important thing of all..our future generation. The truth is, they should not feel inferior for this life choice, and no Feminist ideology no matter the credibility of the source, can successfully downplay this vastly important role that many women choose to make their lifestyle.
Magicr

Con

Since my opponent has not challenged my definitions, they will be accepted for the remainder of the debate.

I will begin by pointing out that my opponent has made a number of assertions in the previous rounds, none of which are backed up with facts. He states that women are discouraged from being a stay at home mother, however provides no evidence for this.

Obviously there are a wide variety of views within radical feminism, some of these may discourage staying at home as a "house wife." Because of this diversity in opinion, I narrowed this down in R1 with my definition. According to the provided definition that was accepted by my opponent, feminism is not the discouragement of being a stay-at-home-mom, it is the fight for equality. It is the idea that women should be able to have absolute free choice in deciding what they want to do with their lives politically, economically, and socially. Men can be stay at home parents and provide the same nurturing qualities that women can provide, in fact, several studies have shown that fathers have essential roles in their children's developments [1], so perhaps it is more advantageous for the father to stay with the children and the mother to work. There is no reason to box a family in and say that a certain parent should have this role and a certain parent should have another role. Feminism is simply the idea that families should be able to have the ability to make the decisions for themselves, and have equal opportunities for employment so that they can implement whatever they decide.

My opponent said in R2 that "The truth is, they should not feel inferior for this life choice, and no Feminist ideology no matter the credibility of the source, can successfully downplay this vastly important role that many women choose to make their lifestyle."

Feminism, as definined in R1, does not claim that women should not be able to make the choice to stay at home if they so desire, it simply means that they should have equal pay and employment opportunities.

Source:

[1]- http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
MRHumble

Pro

This article was written by the first woman director of policy planning at the State Department, she speaks in depth about being discouraged, and looked down upon for making the choice between work and family. http://www.theatlantic.com...
My mother's feminist principles coloured every aspect of my life. As a little girl, I wasn't even allowed to play with dolls or stuffed toys in case they brought out a maternal instinct. It was drummed into me that being a mother, raising children and running a home were a form of slavery. http://americanphoenix.net...
The above segment was written by the daughter of a "Radical Feminist" We Agreed the definition of Radical was "Favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms:radical ideas". Here you have a woman not letting her little girl play with dolls because it might bring out "maternal Instinct" And that being a mother was a form of slavery. I could just continue posting links in this vein, but the point is, that both of these women while in feminist environments encountered opposition when it came to the subject of parenting, one being taught not to have a family at all, and the other being looked down upon by her colleagues. Women are bombarded with media like this website, "single mothers by choice" http://www.singlemothersbychoice.org... and exposed to propaganda that speaks out against a traditional family unit as a support system.
The unin�tended con�se�quences of Radical fem�i�nism have had neg�a�tive effects that have taken a few gen�er�a�tions to present themselves. Now one out of every two children in the United States will live in a single-parent family at some time before they reach age 18 according the United States Census Bureau, in 2002 about 20 million children lived in a household with only their mother or their father. This is more than one-fourth of all children in the United States! In contrast, in 1970, only about 11 percent of children lived in single-parent families. The true Feminist movement seeks equality, and in fact puts special stress on being a good mother, but with statistics like these, and the prevalence of more and more Radical Feminist propaganda people seem much more likely to quit on family to become independent when things get a tough at home. Here are some Quotes by members of the movement.
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." Linda Gordon
Many Radical Feminist leaders by and large, tell women that they can have it all, and that men, especially in the roles of husband and father, are not necessary. While true, they can go at it alone, should we be filling womens heads that this is actually a more respectable "independant" lifestyle choice?
Magicr

Con

First, I would like to point out that my opponent has not directly refuted anything I said in R2.

Next, I will take on my opponents arguments in the previous round. Basically, what he has done, is to provide two examples of radical feminism, the first of which merely shows the consequences of someone's actions in relation to their decisions on work and family. The second provides an article on one way a mother parented her child that was wrong, however, this cannot be said to capture the majority of radical feminists.

He then counties by posting a link to information about becoming a single mother by choice which he claims is propaganda. This website is a provider of information. They say on their "About" page, that "We believe that single motherhood is a viable option but we are not an advocacy group," and "We feel the choice to become a parent is a most individual one and is not right for everyone." My opponent has presented the unfounded claim that this website is propaganda. Wikipedia defines propaganda as "a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position" [1]. This is not propaganda because Single Mothers by Choice is not an advocacy group. They are simply providing information on a viable choice for some women to make. How is giving women who are not in a relationship information on how they can become mothers hurt the family? In R1, family was defined as either a tradiontal family or a single parent family.

Next, he claims "The true Feminist movement seeks equality, and in fact puts special stress on being a good mother, but with statistics like these, and the prevalence of more and more Radical Feminist propaganda people seem much more likely to quit on family to become independent when things get a tough at home." This is another unfounded claim, and he blames the increase in single parent families on feminism without any evidence.

Finally, he provides two quotes from the feminist movement, neither of which he provides a source for so I, nor the reader, has any idea of the context of the quotes. Because of this, I will hope the reader can see why they are not a valid argument.

He closes with the statement "Many Radical Feminist leaders by and large, tell women that they can have it all, and that men, especially in the roles of husband and father, are not necessary." He has provided two examples. I would contend that this is in no way a reasonable representation of the majority of feminism. Feminism today is, in large part, focused on such issues as equal pay and preventing rape [2]. The radical part of the phrase simply means that big changes need to happen to achieve these goals.

I thank my opponent for this interesting debate.
Sources:

[1]- http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2]- http://en.wikipedia.org...

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
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2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by socialpinko 4 years ago
socialpinko
MRHumbleMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Weak and mostly incoherent arguments from Pro. Pro never responded to Con's refutation concerning the agreed upon definition of feminism. Feminism was defined as the belief in male/female equality. Pro basically ignored this throughout the entire debate and argued that it meant the opposition to motherhood which Con showed could actually be complementary to it. Sources also go to Con for Pro (A) trying to use personal anecdote as a source and (B) failing to source his two feminist quotes in R3.
Vote Placed by ScarletGhost4396 4 years ago
ScarletGhost4396
MRHumbleMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: CON from beginning to end refuted effectively everything that PRO stated. PRO really never did respond to any of CON's arguments, meaning that he dropped them. The two had about the same in everything else.