The Instigator
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
63 Points
The Contender
purplehaze
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points

"First of all its quite easy to make 2+2=5 using simple algebra..."

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/1/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,057 times Debate No: 8501
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (13)

 

mongeese

Con

My opponent claimed the above in the comments section of this debate: http://www.debate.org...

I think that this is absolutely impossible. [2 + 2 =/= 5], because if [2 + 2 = 5], and [2 + 2 = 4], then [ 4 = 5], so [X = X + 1], so all numbers are equal. This would be ridiculous.

Algebra - a branch of mathematics concerning the study of structure, relation, and quantity (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

Thank you, should you accept this debate.
purplehaze

Pro

Say x=1 and y=1 ok.
So x=y
If we were to multiply both sides by "x" the equation would still be correct.

x�=xy correct.

Now if i was to subtract "y�" from both sides the equation still remains correct.

x�-y�=xy-y� correct.

And this is equal to (x-y)(x+y)=y(x-y) correct.

The (x-y) on both sides cancel each other out.

Leaving x+y=y or 2=1

Ok so lets take 2+2=5

Right lets take the 2+2.

I have just shown that through algebra 2 can be equal to 1 without any flaw in the math.

So 2+2 becomes 1+1

Now lets take a look at 5
5= (2x2)+1
And since 2=1 that becomes (1x1)+1
Which is equal to 2.
So that leaves me with 1+1=2, which was originally 2+2=5.
So by manipulating 2 to become 1 using algebra I have brought the two sides to be equal.

We really didn't need three rounds bud.
Make what you want of it.
Cheers for the debate anyway.
Debate Round No. 1
mongeese

Con

Take a look at my opponent's argument.

"Say x=1 and y=1 ok."
This means that because [1 - 1 = 0], [x - y = 0].

[The (x-y) on both sides cancel each other out.]
Because [x - y = 0], you can't use dividing by [x - y], because this goes against division by zero.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Under the standard rules for arithmetic on integers, rational numbers, real numbers and complex numbers, division by zero is undefined."

In fact, Wikipedia was so kind to point out my opponent's fallacy, and why it doesn't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

My opponent's argument was one that tried to disguise the division by zero by dividing by a difference of zero.

Therefore, my opponent's logical argument is entirely flawed, and [2 + 2 = 4], by the property of addition, and [2 + 2 =/= 5], because [4 =/= 5], because two different numbers have two different values.

http://www.google.com...:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS_en
(I apologize for the broken link. Please copy the part that wasn't included in the original hyperlink into the window opened up by the hyperlink. Cheers.)

"I have just shown that through algebra 2 can be equal to 1 without any flaw in the math."
You made one of the biggest mathematical flaws in the history of mathematical flaws. You divided by zero in a sneaky, underhanded way.

"We really didn't need three rounds bud."
Yes, we will.
In my second round here, I point out the flaw in your logic.
You then make some defense for your logic.
I point out that your defense is, in itself, flawed.
You hang your head in shame.

"Make what you want of it."
Your argument is flawed. There.

"Cheers for the debate anyway."
Cheers.
purplehaze

Pro

Impressive. I didnt think you would spot it. I told you we wouldnt need three rounds bud. Smart little 14 year old.
Debate Round No. 2
mongeese

Con

Thanks.

This debate is over. Vote CON.
purplehaze

Pro

Erectile disfunction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
"If anyone else has any other "proofs" for [2 + 2 = 5], I'd be glad to find a flaw."

I think that every proof includes division by zero. Though maybe there is some flawed proof that can be constructed by getting a negative absolute value or something.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
If anyone else has any other "proofs" for [2 + 2 = 5], I'd be glad to find a flaw.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
RAWR

Good job mongeese.
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
Well done, mongeese. You proved that 2+2 does not, in fact, equal 5 =D
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
I'm chilled. I'm chilled. I just don't want anybody to think that I was only able to win this debate using your comments. Sorry.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
chill mongeese. I've heard this argument so many t on anythingtimes, and I just wanted to say how I feel. You don't need to be a jerk. It's not like I was calling you ou
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
I don't have to resort to dirty tricks.

Most of my debates are standard debates revolving around a topic.

However, whenever I see someone claim something that I know is false, I challenge them to a debate, and prove them wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?

My opponent believes to have an auto-win just as much as I do; otherwise, the debate wouldn't be accepted.
Posted by PoeJoe 7 years ago
PoeJoe
I suspect PRO knew his side was faulty, especially considering the fact that he made the exactly correct wrong answer. That said, CON should really lessen the factual debates that guarantee him an auto-win. He is too good a debater to have to resort to these kinds of dirty tricks.
Posted by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
Ai ya, these kind of debates/statements...

People who try to find a loophole on the foundations of math using a seemingly convincing algebraic 'worksheet' just make a fool out of themselves when they find out they are making a simple algebra error, as stated before :P.

Anyways, kudos to CON for calling him out, though most of us here probably knew who the winner was beforehand.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Hey, don't debate for me.
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by SaintNick 7 years ago
SaintNick
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Vote Placed by philosphical 7 years ago
philosphical
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Chase_the_Bass 7 years ago
Chase_the_Bass
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by ToastOfDestiny 7 years ago
ToastOfDestiny
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by abard124 7 years ago
abard124
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by mongoose 7 years ago
mongoose
mongeesepurplehazeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50