The Instigator
das_kapitel
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
aaltobartok
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points

Flag burning during protest is wrong

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,573 times Debate No: 964
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (15)

 

das_kapitel

Pro

I cannot see how someone could tolerate the burning of a United States flag during a protest. I think it should be treason. yes, we have freedom to gather and protest. Yes, we have freedom of speech. Yes, we have the freedom to do whatever the heck else we want, but this is ridiculous. If the American flag is to be burned, then it is to be because it is worn or tattered., not because your angry. If you are angry, there are other things that you can do to voice your opinion, that is why there are wonderful sites like this. I believe that there are some things that are not to be tolerated, and this is one of them.
aaltobartok

Con

Please vote on this debate on the debating, not on your point of view on the topic.

The United States Constitution clearly states the following: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or of expression; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Burning the flag is free expression and speech. I would never do it, I think that it's reprehensible, but if you want to follow the Constitution than I don't see how it could be banned.

"If you are angry, there are other things that you can do to voice your opinion, that is why there are wonderful sites like this." Who are you to tell anybody how they should express their anger?

"I believe that there are some things that are not to be tolerated, and this is one of them." Who are you to legislate your own morality?

Just a few points.
Debate Round No. 1
das_kapitel

Pro

You have my sincere apologies aaltobartok. I did not intend my title of the debate topic to be offensive in any way, next time I will be sure to use the topic to title the debate instead of my voiced opinion.

Now to the matter at hand, "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor". "The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way", If your burning it at a protest, it is being displayed and used in a manner that it can easily be damaged.

(These are in the United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1, sub-section 8.)

Although these are not laws, they are regulations for flag etiquette and respect, and i'm sure they weren't made to be broken.

http://www.ushistory.org...

(This is the web address from which I cited this information)
aaltobartok

Con

It's etiquette against the Constitution.

The Constitution wins.

That etiquette was created for proper respect of the flag by those wishing to respect it, and for those wishing to respect it. Forcing citizens to respect symbols of government forces them to respect the government itself and goes against the US tradition of democracy.

The US Flag is a symbol of our nation. I support it and what it stands for; so do you. But for those who do not, I think that it is unfair and undemocratic for us to legislate on them with our morality and feelings.

Policy should be based on thought and fact and the Constitution, not on the morality of the people.
Debate Round No. 2
das_kapitel

Pro

das_kapitel forfeited this round.
aaltobartok

Con

aaltobartok forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kady 8 years ago
Kady
One who burns the American flag that Millions and millions of people died defending is not only a form of extremism but ANTI-AMERICAN! This just tells me that Liberals must be morally bankrupt.
Posted by clsmooth 8 years ago
clsmooth
That's absurd. Treason is taking an oath to defend the Constitution and then disobeying it. Only a Communist would regulate speech and private property like these "conservatives" want to do. They are philosophically bankrupt.
Posted by BastGOP 8 years ago
BastGOP
In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one's sovereign or nation. Enough said. The notion of burning the flag for the sake of "peaceful protest" is in and of itself treasonous. My family has shed blood for the freedoms of this country. If you want to simply say that your country is not doing right and critique your government, so be it. (The government is the only thing wrong with my country.) But, preserving the Flag of the United States is not "etiquette"; not doing so is treasonous.

En la ley, la traición es el crimen que cubre parte de los actos más graves de la deslealtad a un soberano o la nación. Dijo bastante. La noción de quemar la bandera por la "protesta pacífica" es de por sí traidora. Mi familia ha soltado sangre para las libertades de este país. Si usted quiere decir simplemente que su país no hace el derecho y critica su gobierno, así que es lo. (El gobierno es lo injusticia único con mi país). Pero, preservando la Bandera de los Estados Unidos no es la "etiqueta"; no hacer así es traidor.
Posted by Korezaan 8 years ago
Korezaan
"It's etiquette against the Constitution.

The Constitution wins."

lol zee pwnt.
Posted by clsmooth 8 years ago
clsmooth
coolman is correct, RE: the debate. But the comments are different. I haven't read the debate, and when I do, I will judge it on the merits of the arguments. I believe flag burning to be "wrong" precisely because it is legal.
Posted by coolman 8 years ago
coolman
Actually, I'm with das_kapitel on this one. The title of this debate says nothing about whether or not it should be legal. It says it is WRONG. With the freedom of speech, you HAVE THE RIGHT to cuss out someone when you're upset, that doesn't mean that it IS RIGHT. To a degree I believe that flag burning is and should be allowed by the constitution, but that doesn't mean it's right. PRO did give arguments as to why he felt it was WRONG to do the act, CON only argued as to why it should be legal - not the initial purpose of the debate, as far as I can tell.
Posted by clsmooth 8 years ago
clsmooth
Well then, to some (including me), your car represents Hitler, and you driving it represents the Holocaust. So I want to make a law saying you can't drive your car.

America is about freedom. Your symbolism is about National Socialism. The Founding Fathers would not have admitted any law against use of one's own property, and they weren't into nationalists symbols. In fact, they considered themselves citizens of their states, not subjects of the federal government.
Posted by ScrewSociety62 8 years ago
ScrewSociety62
clsmooth, it DOES make sense. To some, (including me) the flag is a symbol of what America (in my case) stands for. Burning the flag is trying to symbolize a hatred of what America stands for.
Posted by clsmooth 8 years ago
clsmooth
I agree with g_of_tongues. It makes no sense to burn an American flag in protest, because America is the country where you CAN do that. It would only make sense to burn the flag of a country that was repressive and didn't allow it. Kind of like a paradox.

A few other points: Just because something is "wrong," doesn't mean it should be illegal. I think adultery is wrong, but I don't think there should be laws against it. Others might think premarital sex is wrong, but they probably don't think it's a matter for the law.

And also, a flag-burning ban would be a restriction of private-property usage. Honestly, the flag is a symbol, but it ultimately is a piece of cloth, and if I own it, I can use it however I want to. A ban on flag burning would be the same principle as the private-property regulations most commonly touted by liberal statists.

America shows its greatness by its tolerance. That's what makes the American flag the symbol that is is. To revoke that tolerance would change the nature of the flag and what it stood for, and make burning it much more appropriate.

"I'd rather wrap myself in the Constitution and let the flag be burned, then wrap myself in the flag and burn the Constitution."
Posted by g_of_tongues 8 years ago
g_of_tongues
The burning of my American flag turns my stomach. It makes me sick to think that there are people in my country who would show so much disrespect toward me and others, and what this country stands for as to burn the flag. But when it comes down to it I have to say that I support freedom of speech and as much as I hate what it is sometimes used for I support it. Me and my Marines are fighting and dying for this freedom and until there is a constitutional amendment banning such an act it is a constitutional right and cannot be banned.
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by g_of_tongues 8 years ago
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