The Instigator
Con (against)
0 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
0 Points

Flat tax is the best from of taxation

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 418 times Debate No: 88128
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)




I am arguing that a flat tax is not the best form of tax, my opponent is arguing that it is good for the majority of people.

I prefer we be cordial and respectful, what I mean by that is I prefer you put the lyrics to a nice song at the end of your song. Failure to do this will result in the loss of the conduct point most likely.

My first choice is... The Day I Tried to Live, by Soundgarden.

I woke the same as any other day
Except a voice was in my head
It said seize the day, pull the trigger, drop the blade
And watch the rolling heads

The day I tried to live
I stole a thousand beggar's change
And gave it to the rich
The day I tried to win
I dangled from the power lines
And let the martyrs stretch

One more time around
Might do it
One more time around
Might make it
One more time around
Might do it
One more time around
The day I tried to live

Words you say never seem
To live up to the ones
Inside your head
The lives we make
Never seem to ever get us anywhere
But dead

The day I tried to live
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
All the other pigs

I woke the same as any other day you know
I should have stayed in bed

The day I tried to live
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
All the other pigs

And I learned that I was a liar
Just like you


I accept this debate, but I respectfully decline to provide lyrics to a song as the task is not germane to neither this topic or the debate. Yet, I appreciate Con's willingness to share. I, however, will not be using my valuable characters to type out what can already be listened to. That is the definition of useless tautology.
Debate Round No. 1


Pro's refusal to put a song means he gives up the conduct point, if he did not want this he should have never accepted the debate, onward then.

Okay my argument against a flat tax is that it raises taxes on most people who do not make a lot of money annually. You could put many different percentages on it, so I just need to use some examples. Keeping in mind whenever taxes are too low in a heavily populated country, the government can not pay for anything.

Okay, for example, in the 2012 U.S presidential election, Republican Herman Cain proposed a flat tax plan of 9% on income tax, 9% sales tax, and 9% business tax.
However in an article done by the New York Times, they used information from a study done by the Tax Policy Center, that showed that this flat tax would increase the taxes of an average family of four by more than $4,000 yearly. However it would lower the taxes on a similar family that makes between $500,000 and 1 million dollars a year by approximately $60,000.
Source, article:
Source, study:

However while we now know that a 9% flat tax plan would put a large tax hike on middle and lower class people, and a reduction on some one making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year. It makes sense to get more examples I guess.

Here on this website, they use a sample flat tax of 20% to see what it would do to wages. Some one who makes $30,000 a year would pay $6,000 in taxes, yes that is quite a hike.
So in conclusion a tax plan is garbage for some one who makes little money annually.

Now for my choice of song, I Comfortably Numb, by Pink Floyd.

Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?

Come on now
I hear you're feeling down
Well, I can ease your pain
And get you on your feet again

I'll need some information first
Just the basic facts
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying
When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like two balloons
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain, you would not understand
This is not how I am
I have become comfortably numb

I have become comfortably numb

Just a little pin prick
There'll be no more aaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick

Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working, good
That'll keep you going through the show
Come on, it's time to go.

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
I have become comfortably numb.



First of all, I must say that Con's insistence on quoting the lyrics of a song is certainly unusual. But it's now become worse than that. Con's claim that I should be penalized for conduct is vey annoying and equally burdensome. Conduct is how one acts in a debate, especially in regards to one's language. I would argue that conduct does not extend to satisfying the eccentric proclivities of one's opponent. Since I am not required by to obey my opponent, I see no reasons why I should be punished for my polite refusal to comply.

With that settled, I move on to defining my proposal of a flat tax.

The flat tax is can be defined in a myriad of ways, but there is a common theme holding all definitions. However the amount is calculated, the centric idea of a flat tax is that everyone pays the same figure. Instead of a gradual (i.e. proportional or progressive) tax, the flat tax imposes an equal figure on the entire citizenry, Rich or poor, everyone pays the same amount. [1]

In general, the flat tax has its benefits, among which include: [2]

- Simplified tax code (less administrative costs and legal headache).

- Pro-growth economic stance: flat tax predictability encourages risk-taking and, by extension, growth.

- Fairness: It is only right that each citizen should pay his government the same amount as his peers since all of them receive the same equal protection of their rights vis-"-vis security.

Now, my proposal:

Rather than being based on percentages (like the one Con is arguing against), I propose a monetary flat tax, meaning that the cost of government is equally divided among the taxpayers. For example, if the cost of government were $10, and there happened to be only 10 taxpayers, each taxpayer would only pay $1 regardless of their personal wealth.

Thanks for reading! I look forward to Con's response.


[1] Boudreau, Brita, and Thomas M. Dalton. "Simulating A Flat Tax Model." CPA Journal 83.10 (2013): 14. MasterFILE Premier. Web. 14 Mar. 2016.
Debate Round No. 2


Let me tell you why you shall lose the conduct point for not posting the lyrics to a song. It is because it was the single rule I set up. Many people set up rules for debates, and type like an authoritarian, if you break my rules, you shall lose. This is the same thing, except I am being less authoritarian and still willing to have a debate with you, just saying that I did say if you do not follow my one rule you forfeit the conduct point. In this case, conduct is simply reading my opening statement in round one, if you did not like it, you should have debated me about it in the comments or nor accepted the debate, but you did not, too bad.

I would say your definition of a flat tax is fine, essentially everyone is taxed at the same percent.

Lets see the benefits. Okay first of all less "legal headache" is extremely unspecific. If I could assume that refers to situations like corporate tax breaks and stashing in places like the Cayman Island by setting up a mail box there or having 500 corporations set up in one building, a flat tax does not close this. This is separate from the kind of tax used, more so how whatever kind of tax used is implemented. So, this part, if I understood it correctly, is blatantly incorrect.

Okay less administrative costs, okay. This is valid, however your job is to prove that a flat tax is better than any other kind of tax, fair tax, progressive tax, whatever. So you have to address them all and say why a flat tax is better. It is kind of a gotcha debate I made here.

Okay, pro growth economic stance. It's predictability encourages risk taking and, by extension, growth. Um-mm, not really. First of all, that having a flat tax is predictable and encourages growth is somewhat valid. Okay yes it has the potential to raise equal or greater revenue than now depending on the rate, however as I said taxes will be hiked on the poor and middle class and pretty much all the millionaires in the billionaires in America get huge tax decreases, tell me how is the majority of U.S citizens getting poorer pro growth?

Also just having a flat tax does not increase Wall St. speculation aka risk, a recent Princeton University study said the U.S is officially an oligarchy.

What this means is that, more speculation always equals pro growth, is false. refer to: The Great Recession, The Stock Market Crash. It encourages sh1t like this, not growth. high risk taking is not growth it just does not make sense. Also this is not what a flat tax equals, if an investor or aspiring speculator can not understand their tax plan is not some one you want taking high risks. In any case, your average worker is not the kind of person taking high risks anyway.

Okay fairness.. wtf. We already went over this. If you can honestly give me an awesome explanation of how a huge wage hike on the poor and middle class and a decrease on the rich is fair, honestly i will concede.

Oh sh1t, onto your proposal: so what you are saying is no matter is some one has a yearly income of 100 million or 12 thousand they should pay the same amount. Come on, let me elaborate on this. Let's think of another example.

Lets say the cost of government was $10,000 and there was a room of 2 taxpayers. One was a CEO worth 4 billion and one was poor, with a yearly income of $20,000 and two kids. In his plan, they would both pay $5,000. Explain to us how this is fair and balanced and pro growth. Also, would you please actually address my argument next time other than skipping it.
In summary, a progressive tax is generally better than a flat tax.

Do not fear, I shall follow the standards of the debate. My choice is, Bohemian Rhapsody, by Queen

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see,
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go,
Little high, little low,
Anyway the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me.

Mama, just killed a man,
Put a gun against his head,
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead.
Mama, life had just begun,
But now I've gone and thrown it all away.

Mama, ooh,
Didn't mean to make you cry,
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters.

Too late, my time has come,
Sent shivers down my spine,
Body's aching all the time.
Goodbye, everybody, I've got to go,
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth.

Mama, ooh (anyway the wind blows),
I don't wanna die,
I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all.

I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango?
Thunderbolt and lightning,
Very, very frightening me.
(Galileo) Galileo.
(Galileo) Galileo,
Galileo Figaro

I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me.
He's just a poor boy from a poor family,
Spare him his life from this monstrosity.

Easy come, easy go, will you let me go?
Bismillah! No, we will not let you go. (Let him go!)
Bismillah! We will not let you go. (Let him go!)
Bismillah! We will not let you go. (Let me go!)
Will not let you go. (Let me go!)
Never, never let you go
Never let me go, oh.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Oh, mama mia, mama mia (Mama mia, let me go.)
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me.

So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye?
So you think you can love me and leave me to die?
Oh, baby, can't do this to me, baby,
Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here.

(Oh, yeah, oh yeah)

Nothing really matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters,
Nothing really matters to me.

Anyway the wind blows.


Mr.Speaker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


Mr.Speaker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by SocialDemocrat 7 months ago
No, but we could have another if you want.
Posted by Mr.Speaker 7 months ago
Debate you in the comments. :-D
Posted by SocialDemocrat 7 months ago
What happens happens what are you going to do?
Posted by Mr.Speaker 7 months ago
Um... I did not forfeit on purpose. I was busy.
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