The Instigator
Loserboi
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
B-boyFresh
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Floyd Mayweather Jr is the greatest boxer of all time

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Loserboi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/18/2013 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,465 times Debate No: 35714
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (1)

 

Loserboi

Pro

For this debate I will be arguing for the case of Floyd Mayweather Jr being the greatest boxer of all time. My opponent is free to choose any boxer in the history of the sport as a reference to disprove this claim, or make an argument on why my points about Floyd being the greatest boxer is invalid, or any other method to try to disprove my argument on why Floyd is the greatest boxer to ever lace a pair of gloves.

Good luck and let the fun begin.
B-boyFresh

Con

You did not precise whether the weight classes count or not therefore i say that i am sure that Muhammed Ali would have a chance of beating Floyd because of the advantages he has over him.
Debate Round No. 1
Loserboi

Pro

The debate is for me to prove the case that Floyd Mayweather Jr is indeed the greatest boxer of all time. Not, Floyd Mayweather would beat any boxer in the history of the sport. I apologize if it was not clear before, I just thought the premise would be obvious to that cause. We cannot possibly argue who would win in a potential fight because then we would just be conducting works of fan-fiction and that would just seem redundant and a waste of time. To make things clear, I will state my case on how I believe that the career Floyd has had so far, mixed with his excellent boxing prowess has all accumulated to him being seen as the greatest boxer to ever step into a ring. We are not arguing potential fights between past, present, or future boxers in a fight with Floyd. What I meant in my opening round was this, you may either choose to use another boxer's career and abilities to disprove that he is not greater than Floyd, or you may choose to just continually shoot down my point on why I believe Floyd is the greatest boxer of all time.

*I would rather like to have a discussion about semantics in the comments rather than put all our clarifications in the debate rounds, if you do not mind.*

Let me first state some cases on why I believe Floyd is the greatest boxer that has ever lived.

First off, Floyd is undefeated. Floyd Mayweather currently boasts an astounding undefeated record of 44-0 with no draws. Floyd has beaten every opponent that has ever been placed in front of him, he has beaten all of his opponents by way of unanimous decision, or Knock out. The only blemish he has on his record is a Split Decision win against Oscar De La Hoya. Floyd joins an elite class of world champion fighters who have gone undefeated without drawing, who have won a world championship, and who have done so with more than 40 bouts on their record. The only other fighters that I have found to join this list with Floyd, who also fits this criteria are Rocky Marciano and Joe Calzaghe.

Second: Floyd Mayweather is arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Floyd Mayweather according to compubox has the best ratio in terms of punches land% and punches opponent landed%. Meaning today, Floyd Mayweather is the most efficient boxer as having the best ability to land more often than he is hit. Floyd Mayweather Jr throughout the history of the sport is almost unrivaled in this category in reference to defense, the only noticeable person who can compare to Floyd Mayweather in terms of defensive instincts would be Pernell Whitaker. The proof is even more astounding when you look at it this way... in 44 bouts Floyd Mayweather has never even been knocked down by any of his opponents. Floyd Mayweather's worst condition when leaving the ring was a bloody nose when he fought Miguel Cotto. In such a physically grusome sport, to go 17 years of fighting the best the world has to offer, Floyd has escaped the ring in almost a flawless condition every single time.

Third: Floyd is naturally gifted with abilities that basically allows him to be a perfect boxer. Floyd has astounding hand speed, reflexes, elite footwork, and possess above average power. Floyd has been known to be the master of adapting to his opponent and having the ability to break down his opponents and take their best weapon away from them. Floyd is regarded to be the best counter puncher the sport has right now, and that means that he must possess the greatest timing out of everyone else in the sport. To be 37 years old, to be out of his prime and be able to dominate guys who are still in their primes is a feat to be admired.

A quote from former two division world champion Paul Malginalli on his assessment of Floyd's ability just recently after his recent bout with Robert Guererro was: "He's the most talented, he's the smartest, hes the best at making adjustments, he's a great defensive fighter, he's a great offensive fighter, he can lead, he can counter, he can do everything he needs to do, and he can disassemble you, he can take what you do well and take it away from you, and he could do that against anyone in history"

So in terms of just absolute ability there is nobody in history who I believe was greater than Floyd Mayweather. Floyd has no weaknesses, there is no gameplan when people fight Floyd because he does not fight the same way in every fight. Floyd picks and chooses how he wants to defeat his opponents. If he has already decided that his opponent is not worth his time he will just outbox them for 12 rounds straight landing lead right hands and combos at will, an example of this would be when Floyd fought Juan Manuel Marquez who is currently the 4th highest ranked fighter according to the Ring Magazine, and Robert Guerrero who at the time was ranked 8th when they had their fight. Floyd can choose to be offensive as well, if he thinks he is behind in the cards; a prime example is when Shane Mosely landed a devastating right cross early against Floyd, and Floyd decided at that point he was going to really stand and initiate against Mosely. Mosely would later realize he was no longer in position to land any clean shots and was forced to remain defensive the entire fight, allowing Floyd to completely pick him apart round after round.

Floyd makes guys on the pound for pound list in his era look average when they fight. If one guy continually makes the best in the world look like amateurs then he must be regarded as the greatest boxer in his time if not all time.

Muhammad Ali is absolutely one of the greatest boxers that has ever lived, but his record possesses blemishes, he has lost, he has been knocked out, he has been knocked down, and he has been outboxed before. Floyd's only blemish is having ONE Split Decision WIN.

Floyd can do almost everything a textbook boxer should be able to do, and he does everything at the highest possible level, he possesses no weaknesses because he can change up his style to allow himself to regain the advantage at any moment in the fight. A boxer who possesses all these gifts must be regarded as the greatest boxer of all time.

Resources:
http://compuboxonline.com...
http://sports.yahoo.com...
http://boxrec.com...
B-boyFresh

Con

B-boyFresh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Loserboi

Pro

My points have yet to be refuted. I have nothing more to add.
B-boyFresh

Con

B-boyFresh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Loserboi

Pro

Loserboi forfeited this round.
B-boyFresh

Con

B-boyFresh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dj21 4 years ago
dj21
Wow, I don't know how familiar with are with boxing history, but I disagree with your contentions quite strongly. Sadly for me, i can't vote (and Con didn't make any plausible arguments). I am not particularly old (< 40), but have seen every hall of famer fight (I used to avidly collect boxing videos). While Floyd is indeed brilliants, and almost certainly ranks among the top 10 all-time, i don't think I'd put in my top 5, much less #1. Defensively, I don't think he's even as good as Sweet Pea, much less guys like Benny Leonard, etc. And while his hand speed is superb, it is not that amazing (in terms of all time greats) and is offset by a market lack of power. Guys who I would put ahead of him: Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Muhammad Ali, Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns even. I just think, like Roy Jones, Mayweather is tremendously gifted fighter who never faced particularly stiff competition. Even the best fighters of his day just aren't very good. Same as Roy. jmho.

But it's great to see a boxing debate! Congrats on firing one up.
Posted by Loserboi 4 years ago
Loserboi
Manny Pacquiao chooses his opponents like a coward. He fought Morales after Morales lost to Raheem. Fought Barerra after Barerra lost to Juan Manuel Marquez. Waited till Cotto was beaten up mentally and physically by Margarito. Cotto didn't even have a proper training camp or trainer when he fought Manny, as Roach camp still pushed him to drop 3 more pounds off the 147 weight limit. DLH forced DLH to welterweight a weight DLH hasn't fought in, in over a decade. His fight with DLH, Manny actually outweighed De La Hoya. Manny fought Ricky after Ricky was delivered his first loss by Floyd Mayweather. Ricky proceeded to lose again even after the Pacquiao fight. He took on Mosely after Floyd did, he took on a unproven coming up Timothy Bradley, and Bradley won according to three scoring judges. Bradley was too scared to even fight Khan, he just wanted a payday from Manny. He fought Marquez and struggled against a much older Marquez TWICE. He only fought Margarito after he was exposed as a cheat, and after Margarito was DESTROYED by a "out of prime" sugar Shane Mosely. Let me ask you this also, HOW THE HELL did Margo even become the number one contender for the WBA Super Welter weight belt? How did Manny a guy who never fought at that division and Margo who just got exposed as a cheat and lost miserably both become the two guys to fight for a vacant belt? Boxing titles today itself don't mean anything anymore. 4 recognized champs for each weight division is a joke. Manny just had to fight one of the 4 guys to claim a belt. Ledwaba, Diaz, Velazquez, Margo, sasakul, were all belts handed to Manny.
Posted by Loserboi 4 years ago
Loserboi
We are talking about talents and skill set. You are talking about some measure of heart and bravery bs. Floyd hasn't even been downed, hasn't been defeated. I already gave you a list of opponents he has fought that were quality and P4P ranked at the time. WHO IS FLOYD supposed to fight right now that is between the ages of 28-32 (prime ages for athletes)? Who is on Floyd's level right now? The fact that Floyd is regarded as having no competition right now at age 36 is more than enough proof to prove he's in another league than everyone else. Bernard Hopkins even said it himself that nobody has a chance against Floyd at this point in time besides Adrien Broner. Adrien Broner does not want to fight Floyd, and he is heavily regarded as an imitation Floyd Mayweather. Floyd's dancing and defense is called out boxing, it's a classic tactic, used in boxing along with the in fighters, brawlers, and counter punchers. Floyd can change up his game at any moment. He can choose to fight however he wants. What is this ridiculous argument about Floyd not choosing to fight an opponent till he knows he can beat them? Don't all boxers go into a match thinking they will most likely beat the other guy? Manny before he was KTFO, was supposed to be that kind of fight. A 32 year old manny fighting a 38 year old Marquez. You based everything on a ridiculous notion of who has more heart, and you can't measure that. Watch how much work Floyd puts into his training camp compared to other boxers. You telling me tha ain't heart? Who has Floyd ducked? And who was Floyd SUPPOSED to fight then?
Posted by Loserboi 4 years ago
Loserboi
That is stupid reasoning "not ready to"? They were at the top of their game. There is a live video showing a post fight interview with Mosely, when he was P4P.. He was asked if he would fight Floyd Mayweather, and Mosely completely avoided the question. LOL manny has won in so many divisions so what? He has cherry picked every opponent on the way there. Roach specifically chose fighters way past their prime or picked fighters who were at a low point of his career. You're ridiculous to completely criticize Floyd and yet praise Manny when they both choose opponents in a similar fashion. You didn't destroy anybody, all that was is your hate for Floyd boxing style. I hate the "lack heart" argument, or "boring" argument. Every trainer across the world concedes that Floyd is the perfect boxer. Nazzim, Freddie Roach, Robert Garcia, even Virgil Hunter have all said Floyd "might not be entertaining, but he really shows what boxing is really about." I don't know what boxing is about? Please, I have a amateur boxing record I boxing collegiately for the university of San Francisco. I have actually boxed, actually sparred, actually understood how difficult it is to fight defensively compared to fighting offensively. Hall of Fame boxers like Holifield, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson, Even Bob Arum have said Floyd could compete in any era. Nobody says that about Pacquiao. Pacquiao is fighting Brandon Rios next, a guy ranked 65th or so in the world, who just lost to Alvarado, who is fighting at Welter for the first time, and who is 5th in the SLW division. Yeah that is not a cherry picked opponent. LOL GTFO. Rios vs PAC is a joke fight being sold and hyped as a PPV attraction. PPV sparring match for Manny.
Posted by 2953539 4 years ago
2953539
By the way, it's fighters like Floyd that further boxing's politics. He's been using his little politics ever since he started.
Posted by 2953539 4 years ago
2953539
LOL (really? What are you, a fourteen year old girl?), it wasn't a rant. LOL you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and probably didn't even watch boxing before PBF. I destroyed you. End of story. LOL.

Tsyu never ducked Floyd! None of those guys did! The only people who chose not to fight Floyd did it because they weren't ready to, and to compare that to Floyd ducking people because he knew he couldn't beat them is just absurd. Keep acting like the fights Floyd picked weren't cherrypicked to be easy victories all you like. It's pretty sad that you're so blinded by your love for him. Very few, if any, of those guys were at their best when they fought him.

Manny has won in how many different divisions? Yeah, that's what I thought. And without Floyd's little tricks. And he's fought every fight that's been there for him. Period. Furthermore, he doesn't fight like a coward.

Ali was a complete boxer who boxed any way he had to. Don't ever smear his name by comparing him to Floyd. Same deal with Sugar Ray. They didn't dance around the ring. They risked getting hit back. Floyd isn't just a "counterpuncher". He's somebody who never once risks getting hit back. That's a coward, not a "technical boxer".

Bernard Hopkins fought some of the best in their prime, when he was Floyd's age and older. Don't try to act like Floyd fighting (and dancing around as usual) some people who are either coming up or nowhere near being at the top is anywhere near being in the same league. Hopkins beat Trinidad, Winky Wright, a younger De La Hoya, Kelly Pavlik, and he might not have beat Roy Jones Jr but he fought him when Jones Jr was in his prime. Every single one of those wins came at Floyd's current age or older, and he has yet to retire. That's a real champion.
Posted by Loserboi 4 years ago
Loserboi
Floyd 36 is now going to fight Canelo Alvarez who months before the fight was made, Floyd was being accused of ducking him too. Now Floyd is being accused of taking advantage of a kid who is only 23 years old. Who the hell is he supposed to fight. The manny pacquiao fight not going down was not his fault entirely. Boxing has a lot of politics now, it's not like back then where Don King singlehandedly controlled all the big name boxers. Golden Boy and Bob Arum have always had trouble coming to terms on any fight. Why do you think Donaire and Mares never happened? Floyd is always criticized for not fighting guys but honestly who did he really duck? He called out Mosely when Mosely was a number 1 rated P4P star. Mosely said no, cause in the words of Roy Jones "Mosely would have had everything to lose and nothing to gain by fighting a young Floyd." Tsyu ducked him as well, not to mention DLH, all these guys did not take Floyd on during their youth cause there was nothing to gain then. Seriously WHO DOESN'T HAND PICK THEIR OPPONENTS NOWADAYS?! Manny Pacquiao cherry picks all his opponents. Manny built his career fighting guys who were coming off huge losses and proceeding to weight drain them. Freddie Roach's initial demands for the Floyd fight was for Floyd to come down to 144. Quoted saying "Floyd is a talented guy... And if we can take something away from him we will." Before fighting Margarito and before Margo was exposed as a cheat, Roach said "Margarito is looking very well, and I want to see how he does with Mosely before I start thinking about that fight." Mosely killed him, then Roach says his guy is ready to fight Margo. Floyd possess natural skill, he has only fought P4P ranked fighters since he returned or fighters coming in with some sort of momentum. Floyd is 36. He is not in his prime anymore, and he still chooses to fight Saul Alvarez a guy who has cleared his division. Who has Floyd really ducked?
Posted by Loserboi 4 years ago
Loserboi
LOL all I got from that rant was that Floyd is not entertaining. Fighting defensively is a lot harder than fighting a brawl. Who has Floyd not fought? There is always some excuse of him ducking someone when he didn't or him not fighting the best. He fought Corrales who was ranked 8th p4p at the time and who was undefeated, Luis Jose Castillo the top lightweight at the time, Arturo Gatti who recently got inducted into the boxing hall of game, Zab Judah when Judah was still in his twenties and not too long before that fight was the undisputed welterweight champion. He beat Baldomir a fight everyone complained about him not taking. He fought JMM who is currently ranked the number 3 P4P, he fought Mosely who might have been past his prime but still looked impressive against Antonio Margarito and who at the time was ranked 3rd P4P. He beat Miguel Cotto who came off two really good victories at super welterweight against undefeated Yuri Foreman, and Antonio Margaito. He beat an undefeated Ricky Hatton, he beat Robert Guerrero who at the time hadnt lost in what 8 years? The only knock on Floyd is that he doesn't put on a show. He just goes in and puts on a display of what fundamental boxing is. Boxing is a martial art, it's not just two dudes beating the crap out of each other for the sake of people cheering for them.

Floyd is a defensive fighter, so what? Sugar Ray Leonard boxed the same way, Pernell Whitaker boxed the same way, James Toney, and even Muhammad Ali most of his career was a defensive out boxer. Ali dominated the heavy weight division cause he was faster and slicker than everyone else not cause he was stronger than everyone. Floyd is a textbook counter puncher/out boxer. If you were a real boxer than you would know how difficult that kind of style is to pull off. You think it's easy to dodge and counter flurries? Floyd needs perfect timing and anticipation to do what he does. Floyd is 36 now and he's been fighting guys younger than him since he came back
Posted by 2953539 4 years ago
2953539
Muhammed Ali fought some of the best fighters in history, gave them real fights where he risked life and limb, and he made plenty of them look silly. He didn't do it by hiding from anybody either. To even so much as say Floyd's name in the same sentence as Ali is boxing blasphemy. That's why his record has "blemishes", because he's a real fighter who fought everybody who would get in the ring with him. He had the courage to fight a guy much younger than him when he already had problems with his brain, and he stood toe to toe with the kid for the entire fight. How dare you put Floyd ahead of somebody who gave his health to the sport, when he didn't have to.

You've yet to actually prove your case. Fighters are judged based on what they did, not on what they "could do". It doesn't matter how well you think he "could" do in a fight against this guy or that guy based on his skills and other assets. What matters is that he doesn't do it, even if he does fight the person he should, which he rarely has. Potential greatness doesn't stack up to actual, earned greatness. Also, what you seem to not grasp is that fighters in past eras trained differently. Guys with the speed and skill of Ali, Sugar Ray, etc would have been even better today because they would train with the latest, most effective methods.

That really wasn't difficult at all.
Posted by 2953539 4 years ago
2953539
Floyd hasn't dominated anybody in years. Dancing around your opponent and never risking getting hit isn't dominating them. Real champions fight, not just dance. Even in his prime, he fought guys who were either 2nd-tier or who were well past their prime. De La Hoya was well past his prime and yet he still only got a split decision against him, even after dancing around De La Hoya all fight and tiring him out.

Quoting somebody's opinion isn't actually making a point. Moving on..

Floyd fights the exact same way in every fight. He dances around and avoids counterpunches. That's why real boxing fans were looking for somebody to beat him and shut up his adoring fans once and for all, until we found somebody who would give us an actual fight in Manny Pacquiao. Then all of the sudden, PBF wanted to fight him. Hmm...

First of all, your personal opinion of his skills versus the greatest in history really holds no bearing in a real debate. Secondly, he actually doesn't make anybody look average because he doesn't actually fight anybody. "The best in the world"? How old was Shane Mosley when they fought? De La Hoya? Judah? Name pretty much any big name he fought and they were either past their prime or in the case of Hatton, at a weight where they had historically not done well. Furthermore, in every single one of those fights where he "made them look average", he only did what he had to to win. He never gave them a real fight, not since Gatti. Lastly, he never fought Pacquiao, and continues to make excuses and deflect blame for it. Great fighters make the fight happen.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by LevelWithMe 4 years ago
LevelWithMe
LoserboiB-boyFreshTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit. Con didn't make any arguments.