The Instigator
nmlow321
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
clsmooth
Con (against)
Winning
36 Points

Football (international) is better than football (American).

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,480 times Debate No: 2348
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (19)

 

nmlow321

Pro

Football, at least by its definition throughout most of the world, is the most popular sport in the world. Football of the NFL variety is one of the least popular. American football is a slow, complicated, and inaccessible game that is based on brute strength. International football is a fast paced, simple, accessible game that is based on skill. Children in the dirt streets of Africa don't play American football with a balled-up rag, nor would they want to.
clsmooth

Con

American football is clearly superior to international "futbol" (aka soccer). But first, let me answer your augments:

"Football, at least by its definition throughout most of the world, is the most popular sport in the world." -- So what? Just because something is popular does not mean it's the best. Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, and the New Kids on the Block were some of the most popular musical "artists" of the early nineties -- were they the "best"? Of course not! But I'd rather listen to them than watch a boring game of soccer!

"Football of the NFL variety is one of the least popular." -- American football is easily, by far and without rival, the most popular sport in the United States. America is, by far and without rival, the #1 economy in the world. More money is spent on American football than almost any other sport, globally, and that is a good proxy for its popularity. Saying it is "one of the least popular sports" is entirely inaccurate, and irrelevant anyway, as pointed out above.

"American football is a slow, complicated, and inaccessible game that is based on brute strength." -- American football is not slow. There is a MENTAL component that is lost on dim-witted soccer fans who are not used to using their brains. Between the bursts of speed that characterize the actual play, an intelligent American's mind races with potential strategies of the opposing teams.

As for complexity, why is that a negative? Yes, soccer -- a game for impoverished peasants with vegetarian diets and no formal education -- is much simpler. So is arm wrestling. The simplest possible game is probably foot racing. By your logic, foot racing is thus the best game possible. Should everything be dumbed down as much as possible? I don't think so.

And finally, the "brute strength" factor. This shows your ignorance of the game. "Brute strength" is less and less a part of the game every year. An emphasis on speed, quickness, agility, and coordination is more important than mere strength. And what of the kicker? Most are former soccer players who have virtually no strength, like most malnourished victims of European socialist states. And yet they play a vital part of the game.

"Children in the dirt streets of Africa don't play American football with a balled-up rag" -- You are right. But if Africa was ever lifted out of poverty, then there WOULD be a desire to play a real sport.

Soccer emerged from poverty. It is a simple game to be played by people who are uneducated and unable to afford basic sports equipment. The original soccer players chose a game that emphasized feet in a manner to liberate them from the labors they had to endure with their hands all day. Soccer grows out of the poverty of feudalism. Celebrating soccer is the moral equivalent of celebrating starving Africans and oppressed people all over the world. American football is a game devised by liberated, thinking people, who, through the wonders of capitalist division of labor, had the time to invent and perfect a complex, thinking-man's game.

Soccer sucks!
Debate Round No. 1
nmlow321

Pro

Reading your response it's obvious to see that you hate soccer. This hatred precludes you from discussing this topic objectively, a fact that is clearly exhibited in your disparraging comments. On the other hand, I happen to enjoy both sports (go Giants). I just happen to favor one over the other, so maybe my point of view is skewed as well.

It's true that popularity doesn't equal quality. But we're talking about two types of popularity. Popular music may enjoy success in the short term, but only quality music stands the test of time. It's unfair to compare the popularity of soccer to that of pop music. We've seen how quickly the latter can crash and burn. But soccer has been around in its current form since the mid-19th century and is only growing in popularity, and this surge is hardly confined to the less fortunate.

I'm not an economist, and I don't feel like sorting through journal articles to verify your claim that football generates the most revenue. You made the claim, the burden is on you to back it up. But we can agree that popularity is irrelevant.

To say that football is not slow is like saying NASCAR isn't boring. The die hard fan would disagree, but the average person wouldn't. In the superbowl, the biggest game of the year, play on the field takes a back seat to clever television commercials and the ridiculous spectacle called the halftime show. It must bother even you that it takes four hours to play a one hour game. Even Napolean himself couldn't think strategy for that long. The NFL sells out their fans to maximize revenue from the biggest game of the year. Of course I can't begrudge them for making money.

I find your stereotypes troubling and bordering on offensive. There's no need to level insults at me, or anyone else that prefers a soccer match over a football game. In your argument you called soccer fans/players poor, stupid, malnourished, socialist, uneducated, and ignorant. Soccer is enjoyed all over Europe. The European Union, incedently, has a greater GDP than the United States, according to the CIA World Factbook. Would you suggest that all Europeans are described by your stereotype?

Even more troubling is your opinion of the less fortunate. Let's say that soccer has its roots in the poor and oppressed laboring class. So what? I'm sure I don't have to point out how many NFL teams make their rosters with minorities that escaped abject poverty by playing football. I shouldn't have to mention the thousands more that earned a college education on the gridiron.

And am I to understand that you claim that football is enjoyed by intellectuals? I'm not sure where you're watching your football, but you might want to venture forth from your ivory tower and take a trip to the local sports bar. Of course, if half the people who watched football spent all the downtime in the average NFL game discussing social issues, who knows what we'd accomplish. Maybe we could solve world hunger and all of the poor bushmen of Africa would become football fans.
clsmooth

Con

I don't "hate" soccer, and I certainly don't hate soccer fans. My comments are "disparaging" only to the extent that they're true. Soccer was devised by impoverished people -- I'm not attacking them, I'm attacking their conditions (arrived at through no fault of their own). And I'm CELEBRATING the socio-economic conditions that allowed Americans to have the time to develop the more complex, American football.

You cite one game -- the Super Bowl -- and act as if it is THE way football is played. Yes, there is far too much time between plays (TV time outs) in the Super Bowl, but it is an anomaly. And while the game may draw extremely casual fans (i.e. women) who care more about the half-time show and commercials, that is not the real draw. If it were, then it would be easy to simply stage the half-time show and commercials without the game.

You are "troubled" by my opinion of the "less fortunate"? What exactly is my opinion? That they are the victims of interventionist government policies? The poor in America are victims of the welfare state and fiat-money central banking. The poor of Africa and the rest of the world are victims of the IMF/World Bank and American military hegemony. I place exactly zero blame on the poor of the rest of the world, and very little on the poor here in America. What about my opinion do you find so offensive?

I have made no stereotypes and the only thing I find offensive is your celebration of a game conceived in poverty over a game conceived in comparative economic freedom. Yes, NFL teams are filled with players from poor economic backgrounds who have worked hard to achieve -- this has nothing to do with my argument. The poor in America are much wealthier than the poor in, say, Africa. I do hope one day that Africans are rich enough to have indoor plumbing, healthy and well-rounded diets, the Internet and cell phones, and American football.
Debate Round No. 2
nmlow321

Pro

nmlow321 forfeited this round.
clsmooth

Con

Just like a typical Euro soccer fan, my opponent has wimped out and left the debate.

A vote for soccer is a vote for worldwide famine.

A vote for American football is a vote for global prosperity.

Vote for me!
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ilovedebate 6 years ago
ilovedebate
this debate is a hard one because people have their own opinions on each sport. It was purely based on opinion
Posted by reagan_views 9 years ago
reagan_views
clsmooth- i actually think NASCAR does more for the local and state econamy than any other sport. DUring speedweeks at Daytona, it os like 75% of their economy is in that 2 weeks.
Posted by The_Deeps 9 years ago
The_Deeps
Soccer and Football are my two favorite sports. Both of you attacked eachother. Soccer takes skill, but so does football. Both are fast paced and exciting. Im disappointed in you two, and your amateurish style of debate.
Posted by mikelwallace 9 years ago
mikelwallace
soccer better than football? absolutely the worst argument of all time! way to go clsmooth, you got my vote. soccer is a joke.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
I don't think I'm going to vote in this one.

Con's first argument was quite convincing, but quite biased and in my opinion, very unprofessional, as was his concluding statement.

Pro made a strong opening, but his following arguments were quite incorrect (USA GPA per capita is almost double EU GPA per capita) and most of that time was spent scrounging for small holes in the opponent's argument (Would you suggest all Europeans, NASCAR which is slow PACED but high speed, who enjoys football, these are all terrible points). In addition, he skipped a round.

I'll sit this one, I think x.x
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
clsmooth , I would like to say I agree with your debating except one comment you made. You said, ". And while the game may draw extremely casual fans (i.e. women) who care more about the half-time show and commercials, that is not the real draw." To stereotype and call women in general casual fans is wrong. Some women are greater football fans than some men. I watch every single Patriots game of the season. if I can't be home for it , I DVR it. I watch all the specials and shows I possibly can. I would watch other teams as well, except I am a mother and only have so much free time. There are many women who are not casual fans and there are many men who are. So to stereotype and call casual fans , women is wrong. Anyway I hope you clear that up. I am a huge baseball and football fan , while my brother hops on the Superbowl and World Series bandwagon. I have football squares and I would prefer my team to win than to win any money.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
The two are completely different. I love the Patriots and watching a good football game , but i also enjoy Celtic FC and watching them play. The two games are extremely different. Now if you want to compare rugby and American football it would make more sense.
19 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by ilovedebate 6 years ago
ilovedebate
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: I like football (international)
Vote Placed by eyeleapy 9 years ago
eyeleapy
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by 08tsuchiyar 9 years ago
08tsuchiyar
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by reagan_views 9 years ago
reagan_views
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by sccrplyr40 9 years ago
sccrplyr40
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Cobjob 9 years ago
Cobjob
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by padfo0t 9 years ago
padfo0t
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Vikuta 9 years ago
Vikuta
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by mrmazoo 9 years ago
mrmazoo
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by The_Deeps 9 years ago
The_Deeps
nmlow321clsmoothTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30