The Instigator
Dragoon671
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Whistle
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Football is harder then ballet

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2017 Category: Sports
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 482 times Debate No: 105483
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Dragoon671

Pro

A couple days ago me and some friends got into an argument about which sport was harder(or art if you don't count dance as a sport), football or dance. i say football is harder not by a lot but still harder i have seen my little brother go to football practice and my little sister go dance and have my little brother come home barely able to stand and my little sister come home with blisters and the occasional rolled ankle and i my self play football and i am a starting wide receiver i put around 3 hours of practice into it a day (not including football practice which is 3 1/2 hours) and i come home completely drained. football players not only have more endurance but are faster and stronger id like to see a dancer straight jump with their feet together 12 and a half feet or run a 40 yard dash in 4.22 seconds or jump 11 feet into the air also football players have to be much more aware they have to know where every one is on the field, remember the plays and locate the football and watch for trick plays all at the same time well trying to physically make a play on the ball. my friend tried to say "well ballet dancers have to toss each other around what do football players do... toss a 1-2 pound football" my reply was basically "yeah well we have to push through 250+ pound muscular men that are trying to mall you do dancers do that? no..." anyway that is my thoughts on the matter what are yours?
Whistle

Con

Good Morning,
This will be my first debate. The subject is far more intriguing than first glance would indicate. It is not merely a question of tutus versus tight ends, it goes much deeper. First before even stating my reasoning, I want to acknowledge and dismiss pseudo-sexist theme upon which it could be argued. This is not an argument about boys versus girls; my arguments apply to a male ballet troop versus a co-ed football team; or the requirements of a ballerina versus a female field hockey player. I want to clarify the nature and meaning of "harder," especially as it relates the nature of ballet and football. The challenge could be examined from an individual or group perspective, either way, ballet is, by far, harder than football.
What makes something hard is a combination of its threshold competencies, rigor of training, and the degree to which execution aligns with perfection. The degree to which something is hard doesn"t correlate with opposition, if anything there is an inverse relationship. Collaboration is expected of an entire ballet troop, along with musicians and stage hands. Collaboration is also in the nature of football, but it is halved by an offense and defense competing with each other. Let"s look at each point in turn and how this plays out for six, sixteen and twenty six year olds.
Typically, knowledge and skills are not mastered at a steady pace; there are threshold competencies that mark breakthroughs in development. The first hundred yards that a child rides a bike without training wheels are not likely to be pretty. No matter how many times they fell or how hard they tried there is a point before which one cannot ride a bike and afterward, even years and decades afterwards, the ability to do it is understood almost instinctively. Beyond that threshold the ability is acknowledged by the phrase, "It"s like riding a bicycle."
The competencies of football are chasing, pushing, kicking, throwing and catching. Your typical six year old has acquired these skills, on their way to becoming a professional they will develop, refine, and possibly specialize in these fundamentals. There is nothing that an NFL player can do that a six year old can"t.
The competencies of ballet begin with refining and relearning balance, grace and movement. The threshold competencies occur when these are executed in a choreographed manner. The ballet dancer must have the strength and control to throw or catch the ballerina in time to the music, and more importantly in sync with the other dancer/dancers.
High school football players spend their summers practicing to be ready for a season that runs from Labor Day through Thanksgiving. If their team does well they will have to continue practicing in December and January for various bowl games. Practicing half the year for 15+ games is more rigorous training than I am inclined to do. But in ballet, a sixteen year old who only practiced for half the year is about six months short of what is needed to get a scholarship. Furthermore, instead of one game per weekend a dancer is looking at three evening performances and a couple matinees.
Either activity builds and depends on teamwork, both seek to align execution with perfection, but only in football do half the participants gain if the other half makes a mistake. One ballerina gains nothing by throwing off the timing of another. The lead dancer doesn"t get to scream out audibles in response to what is going on in the orchestra pit. Often a football game is won by the team that makes the fewest errors. Plays are planned with options and variations because things are going to go wrong; there are three receivers down field for a reason.
It is erroneous to suppose the lack of an active opposition makes achieving perfection easy. Look how often the offense gets off sides called on them in a game. Ten professional players having nothing to do but hold still until the eleventh snaps the ball is a simple task without opposition. To make it even easier the quarterback can yell guidance and change the plan. If a lack of opposition made perfection easy the offense would never be off sides.
Maybe the professional level isn"t the best place to compare which activity is the hardest, likewise kindergarten and high school. Let"s forget about the six, sixteen and twenty-six year olds and suppose we gathered 30 people off the next train or bus rolling by. With thirty random people could your little brother divide them up and have them play a game of football that would be interesting to watch? Yes. Given the same thirty random strangers, how long would it take before your little sister had them ready to perform scene from Swan Lake or the Nutcracker that was worth watching? I"m not saying she couldn't"t do it, but it would certainly be harder than your little brother"s task.

-Whistle
Debate Round No. 1
Dragoon671

Pro

i do agree with a lot of the points you made but here is where you're wrong there are hundreds of things an NFL player can do that a 6 year old cant the agility and coordination drills NFL players do i cant do and i am not 6 years old i am also the number 1 receiver in the league and i am nothing compared to someone like Julio Jones or Odell Beckham Jr. my mother asked my little sisters ballet teacher/instructor what my little sister had to do to get good and her teacher basically said "once she has the flexibility and coordination it should be pretty easy". also ballet and football aren't all that different in terms of what you need to learn in order to be good at the sport they both need high amounts of endurance, coordination, awareness and determination how ever in ballet there aren't people trying to keep you from doing those things also football has ballet beat in all of those categories yes ballet need a lot of endurance but football players are doing a lot of the same things as them plus running and pushing against other people. and in coordination football wins by a land slide in ballet you need coordination in you're legs and feet where as in football you need hand eye coordination coordination in you're legs feet you're torso etc. moving on to awareness in ballet you have to worry about where you are on the stage and where other people are, in football you need to know where you are on the field where you're team mates are on the field where the defenders are and where they are going where the ball is and where the ball is going etc... and in determination it's pretty obvious as well ballet dancers have to fight through pain both mentally and physically but in football its the same plus you have to be pushing through other people for extra yards to get past the line of scrimmage etc... in conclusion i strongly believe that the mental and physical effort it takes to play football out classes what it takes to do ballet in multiple ways, people underestimate football by a lot they see a bunch of guys running into each other grunting well some dude throws a ball down the field its much more then that if you take out the defense and just watch how the offense works its actually quite elegant and graceful just like ballet but the fact that you have to do that well someone is trying to mall you just makes football that much harder then ballet.
Whistle

Con

If my opponent could structure their argument with paragraphs and address the actual points that I made it would be appreciated.
.
One point that was addressed was if an NFL player had an essential skill beyond that of a six year old. My opponent cited agility drills as proof that they did. To illustrate the difficulty he admitted that he could not do the drills successfully. First drills and games are two different things. Second even if both teams agreed to just let that one player do drills as long as he stayed on the right side of the scrimmage line would we see a skill that a six year old couldn't do? No. We would only see a skill being performed better than a 6 or 16 year old can. Better does not equal a new skill. Again six year olds can kick, throw, run, push and catch. Is there an action that football players do that is not based on these skills? No.
.
Football players are expected to practice 150-180 days of the year, ballet dancers practice more than 300. If something is so hard why does it require substantially less structured training? Because expertise and competence is not as critical.
.
My opponent tells us, that his mom told him, that his sister's teacher told her that ballet would be easy for his sister progressed. Hearsay is seldom so irrelevant. Had the teacher said that the student could expect a successful dancing career if she merely reached age appropriate motor skills that would be an argument. In context, or lack thereof, easy has no meaning, nor are the levels needed to achieve this "easy" quantified. Dancers train young and long for a reason.

My opponent credited opposition as proof of the hardness of football without addressing the fact that the ability to gain from an opponents mistake. Let me add to that, in football you can target or avoid your opposition, dancers do not get to target or avoid snooty critics or their audience. When two teams play each other one will win, even if they are incompetent and poorly coached, somebody will win. Performances have no such guarantee, if the performance is mediocre nobody walks away with a victory. If 99% of a performance is executed flawlessly, the lasting impact may still be centered on the 1% of mistakes. Succeeding at ballet is harder.
.
Please address the inability of the offense in football to execute something flawless in the absence of opposition, despite being allowed to scream verbal commands. If you cannot dispute it conceded the point.
.
I think the most telling argument was the one I ended with previously. It is easy to get a football game worth watching from 30 random strangers, it would be darn near impossible to have the same 30 render a ballet of any merit. Please tell me why this is wrong or concede the point.
.
I will finish this time by simply pointing out that in conceiving this debate my opponent recognizes an inconsistency in his own argument. Football requires more strength, involves more contact and is substantially more likely to result in grass stains on uniforms. Hard is about more than grass stains and sweat. That is not to say football is entirely easy, but it is only hard in so far as it aspires to the discipline, teamwork and technique exhibited in ballet. By asking the question in the first place you acknowledge the paradigm that recognizes the hardness of the callouses concealed within a professional dancers ballet slipper.
Debate Round No. 2
Dragoon671

Pro

sorry about my poor sentence and paragraph structure.

lets clarify what i mean by "harder", i mean harder as in it is harder to do on a competitive level as well as harder to become a "professional". yes a 6 year old can push run jump and catch but not on the same level as a football player but if we are saying that then if a 6 year old can dance as well. you also ignored half my statements only going back to me comparing an NFL player to me and a 6 year old... i also stated and in a way proved that football players have more endurance, are more coordinated and are stronger which my opponent never responded to.

with that being said ill go back to my main point... what i was trying to get at is that in football you have more to take in less amount of time well having to be more physically fit and talented as in it takes more skill to be good at football compared to being good at ballet if you look at a football player they are more physically fit in almost every way except maybe flexibility the tasks you have to complete in order to play football are much harder then the tasks you have to complete in ballet.

dancers also have much more time to work out their mistakes with their dance with their practices being devoted to working out the mistakes in football you're practice is partly conditioning partly play learning and reviewing and speed, power, and coordination drills where as in ballet you're strength and endurance comes as you learn you're moves.

in short football players have it harder in almost every way shape or form... not by much but it is still harder. but i guess that is still my opinion but can my opponent prove other wise?
Whistle

Con

Thank you for structuring your argument, I will address all five paragraphs. You don"t need to apologize for your lack of structure, it is in your interest to use every sentence and paragraph to advance your ideas. The lack of form and grammar doesn"t constitute a lack of worthy ideas and arguments. If nothing else, it keeps everyone"s panties from getting in a bunch, but it also hones your arguments and allows poignancy to their delivery.

In your second paragraph you attempted to define harder to your advantage, you responded to my assertion about the fundamental skills required, and then you suggested that football players have more strength, endurance and coordination than dancers. Using competitive to define what is "harder" isn"t acceptable, nor is it really in the interest of your argument. Football is competitive, one team loses, the other wins. No matter how much they suck, one team WILL win. A 50/50 chance of success is a pretty low threshold. Becoming and remaining a paid professional dancer is far more competitive. Again, this is why training starts so young and goes year round. Back to the six year olds, two groups of six year olds can compete in a football game on the playground without adult direction. They can do it without planning or rehearsing beforehand. The same six year olds cannot execute a ballet, they need to choreograph, plan and rehearse. They also lack the motor skills to throw, or catch other dancers. I am attaching a url address for ballet training.
https://www.youtube.com...

Let"s talk about fitness. To be sure, there are very strong football players out there. Being 300-400 lbs is a good thing for football players, strength to push other 300 lb guys exceeds that of most dancers. Using the maximum strength and speed is ideal for all the players except sometimes the quarterback. The quarterback is the only player who needs limit his strength. Throwing the ball farther than the guy catching it is bad, more is sometimes less. Mastering your strength and controlling it set the quarterback apart. But every dancer has to execute in controlled and coordinated displays of strength and grace. Coordination is no more essential to football players than dancers. As for endurance, please consult this URL as a reference, http://www.sportsonearth.com...

DURATION
BalletTwo 40-50 minute acts (average)
NFL1 hour of clock time
On the average, only 11 minutes actual play occur in a game. Thus, players spend 49 minutes of clock time scratching themselves and wandering around. But remember that the 11 minutes is shared between an offense and a defense. So a player averages 0:05:30 of actual play. That isn"t even 10% of the 60 minutes of clock time. But the clock isn"t always running, an hour long football game typically takes 3 hours and 10 minutes, or 190 minutes. Do the math, 5.5/190 = 2.89%. How many marathon runners only run 3% of their race?

Dancers don"t get 12 timeouts, they can"t throw an incomplete pass just to stop the performance, and if one of the dancers moves at the wrong time the clock doesn"t stop so that the mistake can be evaluated. If they are pretty sure they did a great job they can"t just take a knee and let the clock run out. Football requires many things, endurance is not in the least one of them.

The third paragraph acknowledges that, ""in football you have more to take in less time." (Yeah, 3% is a lot less time.) If a body builder lifts more weight than a football player does that mean their task is harder? No. The strength something requires does not translate to the degree of "hardness." Nor does speed, although I would expect the average speed of a dancer to be more than that of the average football player, especially if it was for more than the five yards and five seconds in a typical play. There are no positions for grossly overweight bodies in a ballet troop, dancers are far more fit than football players in every aspect but strength.

The fourth paragraph suggests that dancers have the chance to work out their mistakes in practice, this is an understatement. Dancers eliminate the slightest hint of error not only as individuals but as a group. The offensive line of a football team would do well to copy dancers and eliminate offensive offside calls. How hard is it to perfect not moving? Football is about not doing worse than your opponent, ballet is about unified perfection. Which is harder?

In the last paragraph my opponent acknowledges that his position and view are nothing more than his opinion. As a football player he should be enthusiastic and confident in his abilities and training. Ideally, his pride will help him face and defeat opposing football teams. But to win this debate it was necessary to leave the sideline, leave the stadium and compare the two items objectively rather than subjectively. My opponent never did.

In closing, consider the differences between football and ballet; time training and performing, skill and dedication to become a professional, whether success can be achieved through another"s incompetence or only your own pursuit of perfection, and the minimum abilities required to complete either. I understand that I went into more detail than may have been necessary, believe it or not I omitted many arguments and examples in the interest of space. So before you vote, please take a look at the points of both sides, if I wasn"t able to prove that ballet is harder than football then I hope you agree that one is as hard as the other. In that case you should still vote more my side because the proponent was obligated to prove football was harder. He didn"t. While he may be fully convicted in his hunches he did not offer convincing and irrefutable proof. I didn"t limit my debate in the casual hope that enough people would agree, rather, like a dancer, I wanted to communicate my arguments clearly, efficiently and effectively.

-Whistle
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by SirNoodles518 7 months ago
SirNoodles518
Football has a completely different skill set to ballet. Both are really hard to get to a great level but I'd say football is probably more easier to grab the basics of. I prefer football over ballet definitely xD
No votes have been placed for this debate.