The Instigator
tyion
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Yraelz
Con (against)
Winning
29 Points

For now being born in the US should not make someone a citizen unless 1 of there parents is a citize

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/23/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 932 times Debate No: 3766
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (10)

 

tyion

Pro

In the status quo there are over 22 million illegal immigrants in our great country. If half of these immigrants were to produce one child with another illegal immigrant that would mean 11 million more unexpected people in our population. Now i am pretty sure that my opponent will argue that populations naturally balance themselves out but this argument would only be relevant if these were normal circumstances. Our country has never seen an illegal immigration problem like the one we are currently having and this will distrupt the natural flow of population stabilization which can lead to a lack of resources such as jobs and energy. We are a well off country but if this problem is not effectivly solved we will not be in the near future....

challenge me if you dare
Yraelz

Con

Okay. I negate.

My contention is simple:

"Illegal immigration is not a problem, therefor illegal immigrant babies are also not a problem."

Definition:

Problem in this case will be put forth under the paradigm of utilitarianism coupled with quality of life over quantity.

Hahaha!
Debate Round No. 1
tyion

Pro

first off you definition of problem is not acceptable becuause the basis of utilitarinism is quantity of life over quality so you can not have a definition of problem that is inherently hypocritical

for now on we will use the merriam webster definiton of problem considering that this is the most common source of definition and one of the most relaible. The definition is as follows :a source of perplexity, distress, or vexation

next illegal immigration is a problem.There are many in this country who believe that illegal immigration is the cause for the biggest loss of jobs seen in recent generations and the reasons why taxes have been increasing across the board.

with this said according to my definition of problem i dont even have to prove that this is true i only have to prove that many people believe it and it causes them distress. If you want to prove that no is distressed or vexes over the problem of illegal immigration than you would have to say everyone who has complained about illegal immigration doesnt really think its a problem (which is impossible...haha)

next you said "Illegal immigration is not a problem, therefor illegal immigrant babies are also not a problem."

this statement is flawed even if you say that a problem must actually be a "problem" instead of using my interpretation of problem saying it only has to cause distress among people. Our country is seeing record job loss like never before and at thesame time we have an influx of an unprecedent 22 million people (in addition to the natural growth rate of the country) that come here looking for work. ANd i think that you have to agree that most of them find work doing some odd jobs. and as long as one immigrant has a job and one american citizen doesnt have a job that is a "problem" because that job can be given to the AMERICAN.

now according to your logic by proving illegal immigrants are a problem i prove there kids are to since your only argument was well u kno wat it was.

so to reinterate my original point the problem is the children of illigal immigrants because it by making them citizens it gives reasons for illegal immigrants to stay in the country which is basically there way of finding a loophole in the laws.

secondly the population stabilizes at certain rates at a really technicaly level and an increase to our population by 6% (22million of the 300 million american citizens) is bad enough but that 6% reproducing will cause instabilization of our country like never before. the recources we have are finite and in an energy and land scarce world we do not have resources to spare.... deuces
Yraelz

Con

Utilitarianism: The greatest good for the greatest number.

Having quality of life with quantity is in no way contradictory.

Next my opponent attempts to define problem as: perplexity, distress, or vexation. This is obviously not true. For instance if a child may consider school to be distressing but this does not necessarily mean that school it a problem. It simply means the child has not yet come to the conclusion yet that it isn't a problem.

The same can be said of my opponent. He considers illegal immigration to be a problem, this however I will show to be untrue.

Our country as my opponent points out is seeing record job loss. This my opponent feels must have to do something with illegal immigrants entering the country. Sadly this is not a true on a few different levels. For starters there are jobs out there that still need more people, for instance if you walk into any town in the United States you can most likely attain a job as a dishwasher or a maid. These are the kind of jobs that we have a surplus of and are the kind of jobs that immigrants typically take.

An immigrant typically does not have an education as to achieve higher end jobs, which are, many of the jobs that are being lost. So let us examine why these jobs are being lost. For starters our economy is slowly faltering, everyday the Euro, Canadian Dollar, and Pound pull a little farther ahead of us. This decrease in economics could have something to do with spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a war. A war which constantly taxes United States citizens, a situation which leads the common citizen to hold onto what money they can. An attitude that does not well birth entrepreneurship. On the other hand of course, when people feel like they are financially stable they spend more freely, putting money back into the economy, and take more chances (new business).

Thus the current job deficit is not a cause of immigrants.

Furthermore I will be bringing a new issue to the table. That of equal opportunity. My opponent has a preconceived notion that we somehow inherently have a right to dwell in the United States, that we are somehow greater than every other human outside of it. This is fallacious at best, no one has the ability to pick their place of birth and thus it is wrong to condemn someone simply because they were born into a third world country. Everyone on this earth should be afforded an equal opportunity of success, it is WRONG to bar our gates to starving people and tell them that they must go back and starve simply because it might cost the king a few extra pennies at the end of the month.

There is a problem in this debate, that problem however is not illegal immigration but instead the deplorable situation in many third world countries. We have NO right to limit immigration to any part of this world.
Debate Round No. 2
tyion

Pro

tyion forfeited this round.
Yraelz

Con

Well it appears an extension of my points is warranted. I would ask that people vote Con on the idea that we do not have a right to limit the rights of other citizens of this earth. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
Intersetingly, this sort arrangement exists in Germany. Unless a baby born in Germany has either a German mother or father they are not automatically citizens at birth, in fact, there are 100.000 non-German children born every year.

This recently resulted in a teenaged criminal who was born in Germany to Turkish parents being deported to his parent's homeland, even though he had never been there, didn't speak the language and had no right to residency in Turkey.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Nice, I like it, will respond later tonight.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
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Vote Placed by Yraelz 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by jiffy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by sillycow 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by bexy_kelly 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by SportsGuru 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by tigersandgreenweather 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by brittwaller 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by beem0r 9 years ago
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