The Instigator
cookie1
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
UtherPenguin
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Free Market Capitalism is Overall a Better System Than Socialism.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
cookie1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/6/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,256 times Debate No: 61341
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (3)

 

cookie1

Pro

So, I am here to debate why I think capitalism is, overall, a better system than socialism.

To begin with I will explain why it is a fairer system. Socialism is unfair because it encourages taxes, which are unfair. When I go out and work for hours and collect my wage at the end of the month, who is entitled to this money? Me or the government? I know my answer, me. A common argument for taxes would be "what would happen to the unable to work and the disabled and the elderly?" Well I'll start with the unable to work and disabled: These would be cared for much like they are today, through charity, not forced charity through taxes but optional charity. Next is the elderly: In a free market economy pensioners would have been paying optionally into a pension fund when they were at work, and then this would be payed back to them in weekly payments by a pension company. If they outlived their pension fund or didn't have the money to pay into a pension fund, they would rely on charitable accosiations like food banks and well, charities.

An example i also like to use is something i have already posted in another poll or something. If i came to your house one day and told you that you had to give me a load of cash from your latest pay salary or I would lock you in a cage and threaten you with guns if you don't comply. But i tell you that i may come back and give you some of it back would you say that is fair? I certainly wouldn't. Is this really any different to what government is saying to you when they collect their taxes?

Wouldn't it be better if rather than people being forced to look after the less fortunate through taxes, they just did it from the kindness of their hearts, and don't say how people aren't generous because that simply isn't true, people are naturally generous, and with the extra money people would be bringing in hey would have deeper pockets and more money available to give to charity to support the less fortunate.

Anyway I will keep the first part short, this debating is in good faith and its nothing personal.
UtherPenguin

Con

I accept your challenge,my opening argument will be in the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
cookie1

Pro

My opening argument was in round one, this will be my opponents first argument.
UtherPenguin

Con

First I will argue that Free Market Capitalism is not as fair as Socialism. (On the subject of Free Market Capitalism) The biggest flaw that it has is that it causes Economic Disparity and facilitates exploitation.

The main purpose of a Private Sector company or corporation is to "Maximise shareholder value" or in other words increase profit. There are no vehicle companies that make cars for the protection the environment , the only reasons that they make cars "fuel efficient" is because it sounds more appealing. There is a reason why electric cars are so rare today, because cars ran by gas are easier and cheaper to produce. Hench forth having a greater potential to sell than electric cars, no matter the damage it does to the environment. Corporations always put Profit over all, even Human Rights.

One of the most disturbing examples is Shell:

In the Nigeria there was once a large conflict between the indigenous Ogoni people of South Eastern Nigeria and Shell. Shell wanted to mine oil in areas that were Ogoni land. Over decades Shell was aloud the destroy more and more Ogoni to mine for oil. All attempts the Ogoni made at peaceful protest to this was responded with brutality by the Nigerian Military. By the 1990's the violence grew to such a degree that Ogoni academics labeled it a genocide. Thousands of Ogoni were killed even more were left displaced and Shell facilitated the whole thing.

This is just one obscure example, I haven't even scratched the surface yet.
A more famous example would be Nestle. In 2001 it was discovered that a large portion of the cocoa used to make chocolate came from in The Ivory Coast. Small farms which didn't have much government oversight. In total these Farms kept over 600,000 children in Slave Labour conditions. And the practice kept on going until 2012 when an investigation just began to showed the true extent to their actions. The report included information on indentured children with obvious machete wounds, and entire families being forced to work without pay.

Just more proof on how Corporations have only one true purpose that is to make more money, no matter the amount of human rights violations that they whether facilitate or directly participate in. This is why Free Market Capitalism cant work. By giving less and less restrictions on these corporations you only give them more power to abuse. It is like decriminalizing murder and just hoping that people are ethical enough to just not commit it. By restricting these corporations you give them deterrence just like how criminalizing murder gives people deterrence not to commit it.

Con mentioned before that Socialism is unfair because it encourages taxes:
However every country with a centralized government, Capitalist or Not requires citizens to pay taxes. It is what pays for social programs like education, health care and welfare. Most Socialist countries use income tax, meaning that the amount of money that one is taxed fluctuates depending on the individuals income, so that no matter how much or how little money one has they can still be able to pay taxes without the feeling of burden.

Sources:

1. http://www.ariel.com.au...

2. http://listverse.com...

3. http://en.wikipedia.org...

4. http://www.hrw.org...

5. http://www.theguardian.com...

6. http://www.salon.com...

7. http://www.bbc.com...
Debate Round No. 2
cookie1

Pro

To begin with I will argue your opening couple of sentences. You claim that the biggest flaw of free market capitalism is that it causes "Economic disparity and facilities exploitation". I will start with economic disparity which when i searched for the definition directed me towards unequal distribution of wealth. In my opinion wealth should not be distributed equally, people should have to work for the money they earn. Everyone would have equal oppurtunities to start a business and if their business idea was good and there was demand for it they would earn money. Money is a reward, not a right. The fact is someone that goes to med school for several years then comes out and becomes a brain surgeon deserves to earn more money than someone that does a simple job that doesn't require much training. So maybe free market capitalism does cause unequal distribution of wealth but wealth shouldn't be distributed equally, some services are worth more than others. As for facillity exploitation, i can't say that I know what this means, i've searched for a definition but if you would explain in your debate that would be appreciated

You go on to talk about how in capitalism people don't make cars to protect the environment, they do it to turn a profit. This is true, to an extent, companies need consumers to buy their product so they do lots of research, tests, questionnaires etc. to find out what the consumer wants. As the crisis of global warming gets more and more evident the demand for electric cars will increase, the market will respond to this increase in demand by building and selling more electric cars. Also there are lots of entreupeneurs out there that create their company to be efficient because of their personal care for the environment. Business owners are not just soulless, evil drones with no respect for anything/else but themselves.
ideamensch.com/26-green-entrepreneurs/

Another wonderful thing about the free market is that YOU the consumer have all the power. Here's what would happen in your Shell example in a free market: An independant journalist or a journalism company would hear about this from someone (because its hard to keep this kind of thing a secret) then this journalist would go out to Nigeria, take photos, write about what they saw. Then they would return to their country, sell their photos and writing to a news station who would then expose this disgraceful act. After this, the wonderful thing that is consumer choice would come in, when making a decision about whether you buy anything oil related you would most probably avoid shell, and go for oil from a different company, the same applies to your nestle example. Consumers solve all the problems. For these companies the threat of their products being avoided because of their exposed poor treatment of human rights would probably be enough to deter them from commiting these crimes.

As stated before, my dispute with taxes is partially a moral one, why should I have to give a portion of my income to the government? In a free market capitalist economy taxes would be abolished. I would pay for the services I need such as MY healthcare, MY childrens schooling, My security. If I don't have kids why should i be forced to pay for someone else's school fees? The money I have is earned through me offering my services to an employer, if I think I am earning enough money I may wish too give to a chharity that pays for children to go to school whose parents can't afford it. I shouldn't be forced to do ANYTHING with the money i have earned.

My next argument will be one about innovation. One fact you cannot argue with is that people like money. Ina capitalist society innovation is rewarded, entreupeneurs have to come up with new ideas that the public like to be able to sell them. For example if someone decided to make a razor blade that was the same as the current leading razor blade commpany, they wouldn't sell well, however if they discovered a new way of making shaving easier and more comfortable than the leading brands they would sell much more. Capitalism encourages innovation.
UtherPenguin

Con

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
cookie1

Pro

I feel it would be unfair to double up on my opponent so I will allow him another chance to argue his side, I would however like to continue this debate in a second part if my opponent would accept the challenge.
UtherPenguin

Con

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Shield 3 years ago
Shield
Also cookie1, you need to cite sources in your next debate. Sources are very important.
Posted by Shield 3 years ago
Shield
In response to the Nigerian Shell example: That is not an example of free-market capitalism. The Government directly supported Shell's activity, thus it was the complete opposite of free-market capitalism, as it was state sponsored. In a free market, the Nigerian government would not force anybody to unwillingly give up land... In a free market, Shell would have had to kill people themselves to take the land, and then the Nigerian government would be destroying Shell, not the other way around. The Con in this debate was unintentionally, likely due to being sorely ill-informed, spinning tales about free market capitalism. I suggest, as I see he will be debating this with you again, that he researches the topic fully before debating, for his own sake, and for the sake of truth.
Posted by cookie1 3 years ago
cookie1
Uther penguin has agreed to a second part of this debate that I will begin soon.
Posted by grotto77 3 years ago
grotto77
I think the best is capitalism with certain socialist features as welfare, public funding to key services for the society to function and so on.

- 100% capitalism (without regulation and tuning) is not very humane.

- 100% socialism doesn't stimulate human potential, and inevitably collapses because economy can't really be managed to the full extent.

There is a saying that communism is when a human exploits another human, while in capitalism it's the other way around. :-)

Bottom line : Capitalism succeeded, but since it hasn't any competition, it went global, and sucked the world with people in it. It's gotten pretty wild, and it malfunctions as well.
Posted by Evannnn 3 years ago
Evannnn
Cookie, on political debates make sure you use sources. Other then that, good job!
Posted by cookie1 3 years ago
cookie1
Its a shame you forfeited, my offer for another debate on this subject will always be there though
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
Anyone who receives a government handout is definitely guilty of receiving stolen property.
Posted by cookie1 3 years ago
cookie1
Under 2 hours left UtherPenguin hurr up bro!
Posted by Osiris_Rosenthorne 3 years ago
Osiris_Rosenthorne
It's all good, and I don't mind, I was just typing up my opening statement and lost track of time:(
Posted by cookie1 3 years ago
cookie1
Sorry Osiris but that, to me is the only definition, a market completely free from government interference.
Also as my first argument was in round 1 ill skip round two to allow UtherPenguin to give me his first argument
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Alduin 3 years ago
Alduin
cookie1UtherPenguinTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Freedom will beat tyrrany
Vote Placed by kasmic 3 years ago
kasmic
cookie1UtherPenguinTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
cookie1UtherPenguinTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeiture