The Instigator
UtherPenguin
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
cookie1
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Free Market Is Overall a Better System than Socialism (Part 2)

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
UtherPenguin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/5/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 856 times Debate No: 62668
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

UtherPenguin

Con

Here is Part 1 of the Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Format for Part Two
First Round: Acceptance and Definition of Terms
Second Round: Opening Argument
Third Round: Rebuttal's
Fourth: Closing Arguments

Terms:

Overall: Everything taken into account.

Better: comparatively good and well.

Socialism: An economic system where economic decisions are regulated or made by the government or community as a whole.

Free Market Capitalism: An economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.

Anarcho-Capitalism: a mix of Anarchism and Free Market Capitalism.
cookie1

Pro

I accept the challenge and I'm looking forward to you're opening argument, the definitions all seem fair to me!
Debate Round No. 1
UtherPenguin

Con

Capitalism is a system that unfairly favours the rich. Like I mentioned in the previous debate it causes economic disparity and facilitates exploitation, hence forth like I mentioned in the previous debate the legal purpose of a private sector for profit company is to increase the wealth of shareholders, this is one reason why Capitalism is a less ethical system then Socialism, (however I shall further a little later)

Governments are responsible for running and administrating a country, this includes the economy. Without any form of government intervention or involvement in the economy all things would be privatized that includes all forms of social programs. This is the major ethical flaw with free market capitalism. This means that all schools would be private and for profit which would deny access to education from lower income families and others unable to afford the tuition. This would not only increase the economic disparity but also the poverty rate. With the purpose of a private company being to make more money the prices would be driven down, but also the wages of workers.

The reason why companies such as Wal-mart have such cheap prices on their products is because of how little they pay their own workers and how little the manufacturers of their products are paid as well. Meaning that while yes, companies would race to lower their prices they will also race to lower the prices of their workers/

Corporations simply do not care about what they do to their workers or towards others, their sole purpose and goal is to make more money. I have already mentioned in the previous debate about how major Multinational corporations such as Shell and Nestle commit multiple human rights violations simply to make more money and I am at no shortage of examples of these Transnationals.

A much more notorious example would be Nike's treatment of foreign labour and the treatment of workers in the factories that manufacture Nike's goods. In the 90's an investigation was issued towards Nike after accusations of workers rights violations
Nike experienced rapid growth in sales after outsourcing their work to contractors in Southeast Asia (especially Malaysia and Vietnam.) and henceforth turning Nike into an intellectual property and not a factory owning company the result. The employees were commonly the poor inhabitants of the area surrounding the factory looking for any sort of income. The heads of the factories were Nike contractors who often lived in America or Europe and did not have any sort of relations with their employees. The duty of supervision was given to an upper-level factory worker. The authority of the supervisor included enforcing rules the workers must follow and making sure that they were performing to optimal standards. The findings of factory investigations show that the supervisor often oversteps their duties. The laws protecting the workers are ignored in favor of cutting costs and lowering health standards to maximize total profit. Women represent the larger proportion of factory employees. Approximately 75 to 80% of all workers are women and a majority of those are in their teens or early twenties. Jobs are scarce and factory positions are often the only source of work for these young women. The factory job requires women to work long hours, ranging from nine to thirteen hours per day, six days a week. They are severely limited in the amount of time they can take off and are forced to work overtime on several occasions during the week. The hourly wage varies from as low as thirteen cents to twenty cents per hour, adding to a total of about two dollars per day. This amount is less than the minimum physical needs value, which is the lowest possible wage a person can earn and still be able to maintain their basic needs. Although there are more women employed at the factories, they represent the minority in the higher paid supervisor positions. Men are overwhelmingly given the supervising position and they are often older than thirty years old. Cases of employee abuse by supervisors have been found in several factories. The use of corporal punishment to keep workers in line has been cited several times. In one instance, a worker had his mouth taped shut after moving to an incorrect position. Other misdeeds include forcing workers to run in circles outside in the sun.

This is why restrictions are necessary to be put in place. Free Market Capitalism gives large corporations the economic power and as the previous evidence shows that they would obviously abuse it. And that is just capitalism in general not free market capitalism specifically, no country has ever became truly free market because that would mean no taxes whatsoever. Meaning that if a country were to become a true Free Market economy would mean giving a form of power that corporations have never had before. This also leaks into the political spectrum because their have been many instances when an individual attempted to sue a corporation only to be no match for the highly paid lawyers sent by the company while the individual would be left unable to afford a lawyer that could possibly combat the lawyers sent by the corporations hence forth losing the lawsuit. Many times in the U.S states had attempted to put some form of economic restrictions only to have corporations send out a slew of different lobbyist to combat law and to have it denied.

Socialism however works like a spectrum with the more moderate groups being Social Democracies (such as Sweden and the NDP Party of Canada) and the most extreme examples being so extreme they split off into a separate ideology that being Communism.

In the Nordic countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland) their is a universal to free post-secondary education and healthcare, along with no tuition fees students are received a monthly grant to help cover living expenses. While yes taxes are much higher in the Nordic countries the populace is more educated and economic disparity is much lower, leading to a stable economy. Compare this to the U.S where students are going into more and more crippling debt, leading to greater economic disparity as less people are able to access any form of post-secondary education, this combined with a greater spending on military and prisons. In November 2012 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty, including almost 20% of American children, up from 14.3% (approximately 43.6 million) and in comparison to Sweden who's poverty rate was 3.7%, one of the lowest in Europe. And this is all despite the fact that The U.S is over 30 times larger than that of Sweden (Swedish GDP as of 2013: $557.9 billion USD. American GDP as of 2013: 16.8 trillion USD)

This hence forth proving that socialism can work, is a more effective system at dealing with poverty and is more ethical meaning that socialism is overall a better system than Free Market Capitalism.

sources:

1. http://www.stiftung-marktwirtschaft.de...

2. http://www.cottoncampaign.org...

3. http://www.cbc.ca...

4. Youtube Video shown on the top

5. http://en.wikipedia.org...

6. http://politicsreport.com...

7. http://en.wikipedia.org...

8. http://en.wikipedia.org...

9. http://www.inequalitywatch.eu...

10. https://www.google.ca...

11. https://www.google.ca...
cookie1

Pro

cookie1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
UtherPenguin

Con

Due to Con's absence I will write my rebuttal combined with my conclusion in the fourth round, in this round Con may put his opening argument and rebuttal in this round.
cookie1

Pro

Thanks for your patience,
So, my opening argument is this.
Free market capitalism is the fairest system, no forced wealth redistribution, which means no theft by means of taxes, absolutely no coercive government acts, no one forcing you to do anything because you own yourself. This is a much more healthy philosophy than how most socialist states ended up, the people in these systems just became a tool for the government and/or the community. The fundamental belief behind the free market is that you own yourself, you arenot obliged to give money to anyone else, nor are you obliged to recieve money from someone elses pockets, however you may, if you wish give money voluntarily to charities then that is fine.
As taxation isa large part of most socialist states I will now state my problem with it.
My and most peoples definition of stealing is- taking someone elses property without consent and/or by means of force
Taxation is by nature taking money that people own, whether they consent or not and if you dont consent they will lock you in a cell. This sounds frighteningly like the definition of theft am I right?
Free markets provide better services than socialism, I find it quite funny that a lot of these socialists, after ranting about capitalism, go home and play on their xbox's that wouldn't exist if we lived in a socialist state, they use their phones, their televisions, their laptops, computers. These are all products that were invented because of capitalism, if socialism was implemented there would be no need for these products because there would be no businesses.
I have some more arguments but I will save them for your rebuttals
Rebuttals-
"This means that all schools would be private and for profit which would deny access to education from lower income families and others unable to afford the tuition. This would not only increase the economic disparity but also the poverty rate."
This is answered through practice, the closest thing to a free market in practice is New Hampshire, they have minute tax amounts and encourage privatisation, and social programs that re funded through stolen money to be replaced with a system where these services are provided by private companies. Heres the link to all of the sources, they have the lowest percentage of poverty, 1st for child well-being, there is also a section that explains about schools, they have some quality education and etc. the list goes on read for yourself
https://freestateproject.org...
"Corporations simply do not care about what they do to their workers or towards others, their sole purpose and goal is to make more money. I have already mentioned in the previous debate about how major Multinational corporations such as Shell and Nestle commit multiple human rights violations simply to make more money and I am at no shortage of examples of these Transnationals."
Please read this and watch the video attached.
www.ancapfaq.com/business-ethics-2-1.html
"In the Nordic countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland) their is a universal to free post-secondary education and healthcare, along with no tuition fees students are received a monthly grant to help cover living expenses"
For a start you cant use examples of americas children to represent free market capitalism as the system in place right now in america is crony capitalism which is a mixture of government and corporations which as Mussolini said gives you fascism. Regardless these so called free services arent free thwy are paid for by stolen money, I dont know about anyone else but when I look at a successful country I dont look at the one that steals from its citizens the most.
I look forward to your counter argument
Also a fun fact here are some socialist states - Communist Russia, North Korea, Nazi Germany just saying.
Debate Round No. 3
UtherPenguin

Con

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
cookie1

Pro

cookie1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by cookie1 3 years ago
cookie1
Sorry, I have so much college work right now but I will try to argue to the best of my ability
Free Market capitalism is the farer system because it has one simple premise, 'you own yourself' and this ideal is consistent throughout, if I own myself am I entitled to anyone else's money that they worked hard for? No, but if they decide to give it to me in my time of need through charity, thats fine. It is simply wrong for the government to take taxes. Now stealing is when you take something that doesn't belong to you sometimes with force, what does government do when it takes taxes? It takes your hard earned money and if you don't comply you get locked up in jail.

How anyone can argue that socialism is the fairer system is beyond me especiallywhen it requires stealing from people. Now its obvious what the advantages of a capitalist society is, just look around you and I'm sure that 99% of it will have been made by a capitalist company, your iphone, your tv, your xbox, your lightbulbs.

Todays modern technology wouldn't exist if it werent for capitalism because companies would feel no need to go that little bit further, to make this task that little bit easier because they wouldn't be trying to make a profit and very few people look to innovate just for the sake of society.

Now let's look at some examples of socialism, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, North Korea and the list goes on and then you look at the capitalist countries that have prospered like Japan, USA, Uk and so on, it seems clear to me that when socialism is implemented there is a dictator behind it that keeps pulling the strings. Millions of people died in Russia under Stalin and it is for that reason I really hope socialism doesnt come to America, I have to keep this short but I will expand later.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
Free market is everyone pulling his own life's wagon. Socialism is people getting in other peoples wagon for a free ride.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
UtherPenguincookie1Tied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro fails to make an argument, forfeiting all but the first round.