The Instigator
jfk52917
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Adamant1
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Free Will Affects Your Life More Than Fate

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Adamant1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/24/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,316 times Debate No: 14919
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

jfk52917

Pro

I think that free will affects life more than fate.

Before the debate starts, however, I'm going to define both.
Free Will: The idea that decisions control life.
Fate: The idea that events are inevitable and will happen no matter what.

I would love to see the arguments.
Adamant1

Con

Thank you for opening this debate, I do believe we will have a lot of fun with this one.

If I take my viewpoint as pro-fate then I would believe there is no freewill. You, as designate by fate were destined to believe in free will, however it does not, in fact, exist. Therefore being that free will does not exist, fate affects the world more than the nonexistent free will does.
Debate Round No. 1
jfk52917

Pro

jfk52917 forfeited this round.
Adamant1

Con

Seeing as my opponent did not post an argument in the last round, I will not post one here. However I am open to futher debate in the rounds to come.
Debate Round No. 2
jfk52917

Pro

Okay I like how you see this and I see what you mean. Sorry for forfeiting by the way I had to leave town on short notice and couldn't access the internet. Anyway I'll go with the idea that fate doesn't exist then. Here's my point of view:

Let me try to disprove fate first. The most common idea of fate is two lovers meeting. Many people, including the two parties of the couple, say that 'it was fate' that we met. But the problem I have with that is that theoretically either of the two parties could on a whim suddenly decide to break up with or divorce the other party. Also, the two lovers meeting was a long series of decisions. For example, both of the parties chose to, let's say, go to the local coffee shop at the same time. After that, they both decided to talk to each other or as in the movies, one decided to take their coffee and walk towards their table while the other person decided to walk the other way and then they collide. It all seems to be a series of decisions.

Even if you go from a religious point of view, in the Bible, somewhere around Genesis I believe, it is mentioned that God created humans with free will. Unfortunately, however, I don't know what the Qur'an or the Torah or any other major religious books say.
Adamant1

Con

Your description of the entire series of events that must all happen only reinforces the idea of fate. If it weren't fate and it was based upon free will these circumstances would almost never fall into place. With all of those decisions to make one would never find someone who would be able to match up correctly with. However fate has all of these things come together in such a way that the couple would be able to marry and stay together (or divorce) as fate decides. Once again it may seem as if you are making your own decisions, however your decisions have already been decided for you by fate.

Also, as to religious references. The Christianity and Jewish scripture lean towards free will while Islam, Hinduism, and the Ancient Greeks lean towards fate [1]. 2:3 pretty evenly divided there but leaning towards fate.

[1] http://www.gotquestions.org...
Debate Round No. 3
jfk52917

Pro

As to the idea that all decisions are decided before for us, a person can change their mind on a whim. Also, it seems to me that chance and probability more than predestined decisions would decide a series of events. If you use reason to look at it, a predestined decision seems too far-fetched to exist. Logically, a person makes decisions based on their thoughts, expectations, previous decisions, and others' decisions that affect them. That means that if a person decided 'incorrectly' and went against what fate had dictated, that the event would still happen. But that also seems to be illogical. Also, how do we decide what fate has dictated for us? How do we know what fate has slated for us? We don't necessarily know that it was fate that a couple met. Fate really, to me at least, seems to be more of a dismissive explanation as to what has happened than how one's life is led.
Adamant1

Con

As mentioned earlier these small changes, decisions, and whims of the mind are merely fated events. Fate has determined what shall happen and things happen as they are fated to do so. Due to the concept of fate one cannot choose incorrectly, all decisions are correct since that is what has been fated to happen. We cannot find out what our fate is, and no we don't know it was fate that the couple met, but it is a much more logical explanation for all of the events to come togetherby fate than for these things to actually have been choices of your "free will". Fate is not away of life, it is what happens to us, and no matter what happens it is because we were fated to do so.

Debate Round No. 4
jfk52917

Pro

Okay, so what you're saying is that everything we do in our life is decided for us? That is impossible. Generally, from a faith perspective, the god or gods leading us want to see if we will obey their commandments. They wouldn't decide everything that would happen to us. That would defeat the purpose of seeing if we will obey what they say. If you go from a life perspective, that isn't logical. After all, we can think. Are our thoughts decided for us? So, still free will triumphs because thoughts lead to decisions, which again validates free will. Therefore, the only way fate can be validated is if it can be justified that our thoughts are decided for us.
Adamant1

Con

From a faith perspective, most of the faithful believe their god is omniscient, or all-knowing. If this god knows all their is no room for free will, since this would interfere with this god's knowledge. Not knowing what is to happen destroys their omniscience. Therefore since the faithful believe in a omniscient god, fate checks out there.

From a life perspective, as mentioned in my very first post, you are fated to believe and think the thoughts and beliefs you hold, so yes your thoughts are decided for you. So your free-will once again becomes invalid since our thoughts are decided for us.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Adamant1 5 years ago
Adamant1
Is anyone going to vote on this or not?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
jfk52917Adamant1Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had a forfeit. No major language errors. Omniscience argument sealed debate. Con had a source.