The Instigator
threelittlebirds
Con (against)
Winning
55 Points
The Contender
aeopimp92
Pro (for)
Losing
38 Points

Free Will Exists

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 14 votes the winner is...
threelittlebirds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/1/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,594 times Debate No: 7632
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (14)

 

threelittlebirds

Con

I'd just like to say thanks in advance for accepting this debate if my opponent does, and also that this is the second time I've been in a debate on this subject due to the fact that my last one was deleted. Hopefully this one won't be...

I will allow my opponent to go first and argue for Free Will.
aeopimp92

Pro

I would also like to give thanks to my opponent for challenging me to this debate. Hopefully this won't get to personal.
While I am not a genius on this subject of free will vs. determinism. I can still vouch for free will. Ok well here goes.

Ok so I have this friend named Vince Connell that i sit beside in computer apps 1. He is interested in magic and does all sorts of card tricks. Now was he pre determined to have such a fascination with magic? Or was it his own choice?
I'd like to say that he rationaly chose his hobby of magic and it was free will. He wanted to do magic so he chose to there was nothing that made him want to do magic. It was free will and he had a choice. I mean he couldn't have been pre determined to do magic it was his choice and he could change to another hobby any time he wants to. Something might affect what makes him change to another hobby. But he still had to choice to change.

Just like religon,you dont just get stuck with a religon and thats it no. You get to choose on your inner beliefs.

On that note i'd like to hand it over to my opponent with one last statement.The definiton of free will

Free will-a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.

Good luck
Debate Round No. 1
threelittlebirds

Con

Vince is now doing magic tricks because of the fact that external forces COMPLETELY effected his "decisions"(or the outcome of certain causes resulting in an effect). In Vince's case his father may have played an essential role in influencing his actions: Vince told you and I that his father was interested in more superstitious magic and told his son, Vince, that he would be able to do magic with his mind if he got good enough. This could be one of the MANY influencing causes/factors that made him pursue his hobby of doing magic tricks.

Something might make him pursue another hobby but if the root cause came before his conscious self thinking than was it really him making the choice?

"Free will-a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives."

You left out one key part of the definition: Conscious agents being able to make the decisions INDEPENDENTLY of external forces. (http://en.wiktionary.org...)
aeopimp92

Pro

Yes, Vince's dad did affect him to start magic but you can't just assume that he was going to do magic based on external forces and he had no control over matter. You can't prove that free will does not exist there is no scientific proof to your claims.

Your definition of free will is one of many definitons that are re-worded. But they all mean the same thing.

And, free will is not independently of external forces it is being able to have those around and choosing which one you want mabye becuase of some rewards to come in the future. Or mabye some inner gratification from choosing one or the other or many of something.

Also another word of advice you shouldn't always get definitions from one site. You should look around the net for more definitons. Because there is always more then one definition for one word AlWAYS.

Now i'll turn it over to you. :)
Debate Round No. 2
threelittlebirds

Con

Oh I am assured:

I can assume, due to my past experiences and genetic make-up of course, that he had no choice. From the moment you are conceived until the day your body is laid to rest, your mind, personality, and all that determines your "decision making" are all being molded into the product of your environment that you very much are.

Computers have no Free Will and neither do we:

A computer can calculate that a virus ought to be removed by your anti-virus software due to its programming. Human minds are not supernatural entities but are mere matter(consisting of your brain) that have "programming" that is comparable to that of a computers (our genes and our past experiences are the installed programs while the programmer is the environment). This is comparable because the mind is not separate from or above matter. Nothing exists outside of physical existence because there is lack of logical reason for contrary claims.

Computers can find that A and A makes B, we do the same thing when making a "decision". We use our learned information as A and make a decision which is B based on A.

I have no scientific proof?:

Stating that I have no scientific evidence for the lack of Free Will is irrelevant: philosophy is defended by reasoned argument, not objective, scientific proof. I cannot scientifically prove that we do or do not have Free Will just as early humans could not scientifically prove how the earth was made. Philosophy is based on reasoned argument that we are taking part in right now.

My definition:

My definition that I provided correctly states that Free Will would have to be independent of external forces because of the fact that free will is incompatible with determinism. Assuming that matter and mind are one, a statement that it is compatible would be a contradiction in itself.

I'll take your advice and provide some more of the you can find the definition on:
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)
(http://www.google.com...)
(http://www.answers.com...)

My last statement on the illusion of Free Will:

For Free Will to exist there would have to be a single, self-perpetuating mind with nothing in its existence except for itself to effect it. Its past thoughts would also have to have no effect on its present because ones past self doesn't possess every attribute of its present (point being that the past and present self are not the same, so the past self is an external force which contradicts the claims of Free Will).

Thanks again the opportunity.
aeopimp92

Pro

aeopimp92 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Vinsanity 7 years ago
Vinsanity
The pro side did not provide much information or proof of free will. He just repeated saying that everyone has free will and Vince chose magic as free will. But the Con side had very convincing argument. Especially the part about computers being able to calculate A and A makes B.
Posted by resolutionsmasher 7 years ago
resolutionsmasher
Con had better conduct because forfeighting a round is not good conduct.
Both had good spelling and grammer and thus it was a tie.
Con made the more convincing arguements.
Con won the sources because pro can't offer his own personall experiences as viable evidence, yet con still used that evidence and turned it around against pro.
Posted by aeopimp92 7 years ago
aeopimp92
the power was out to you who live in smithfield so i did not have the oppurtunity to finsih my last part of the debate.. : /
Posted by aeopimp92 7 years ago
aeopimp92
Wow must be some biast faces around this site how do either of us have better conduct?
Posted by aeopimp92 7 years ago
aeopimp92
Looks like I'm winning ATM
Posted by toasty_weasel 7 years ago
toasty_weasel
Michael just got wrecked.
gg michael.
Posted by threelittlebirds 7 years ago
threelittlebirds
2 can equal both if you define "everything" as all thats in the persons perception
Posted by aeopimp92 7 years ago
aeopimp92
thnx for the support ryan..... lmao
Posted by theitalianstallion 7 years ago
theitalianstallion
Which one?
Posted by theitalianstallion 7 years ago
theitalianstallion
The premise of this debate is on one of two things from what I can tell, but I would like the instigator to clarify on what.

1. Free will does not exist; everything is predetermined. e.g. Fate
2. Free will does not exist; all decisions are mandated by previous experiences in the persons life. e.g. Not touch hot coals because of burning yourself on them before.
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by The_Booner 7 years ago
The_Booner
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Bloc 7 years ago
Bloc
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by aeopimp92 7 years ago
aeopimp92
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by threelittlebirds 7 years ago
threelittlebirds
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by DeadLeaves93 7 years ago
DeadLeaves93
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by snelld7 7 years ago
snelld7
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:43 
Vote Placed by DrumBum1234 7 years ago
DrumBum1234
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by resolutionsmasher 7 years ago
resolutionsmasher
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by Sidewayssurprise 7 years ago
Sidewayssurprise
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Vote Placed by Urania 7 years ago
Urania
threelittlebirdsaeopimp92Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70