The Instigator
Arganger
Pro (for)
The Contender
backwardseden
Con (against)

Free will can exist under God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 380 times Debate No: 104689
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

Arganger

Pro

Free will: The ability to make your own choices, in such a way that is not controlled by God or another figure.

God is referring to the christion God.

I am arguing that free will can exist under the christian god.


backwardseden

Con

Greetings! I hope that you are doing well and in the very best of spirits. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh here. This is just a mere copy and paste of a previous debate of "Free Will" I once previously posted a month or so ago in which shows that there's absolutely no free will for those who believe in the christian god. None. The videos prove this more than anything else. And also you need a little common sense...

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR christian god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible hypocritically contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so with all of its inconsistencies, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant Free Will.

Another example in fact god shuts you down with Free Will all over his bible. A perfect example of that are the 10 commandments... Threatening people with death is taking Free Will away.
Thankfully pretty much no one follows the justice followed by the ridiculous mayhem madness god.

The 10 commandments are a perfect example. How can you uphold stupid idiotic laws that have no meaning? If those were to be upheld, as a guess at least 80% of this population would not be in existence or better. But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week. And that’s only a couple of verses, if that. So they are not true christians.
* Taking thy lord thy god’s name is vein requires being stoned to death (blasphemy).
* Working on the sabbath also requires to be put to death.
* Adultery requires to be put to death
* Honoring your parents/ dishonoring cursing at you parents requires you as the child to be put to death. WHAT? The others listed above are what they are. But honor thy mother and father. What? Not if they rape, beat and torture me. Not if they are lousy parents and they do not guide me in my journey through life in growing up. Not if they abuse me such as neglect and for me to be ignored which is the worst form of abuse there is which is what your god did to nearly 100% of those who have EVER walked the earth. Your god HATES children. Yet there’s no commandment to protect children from any kind of harm thus proving that the 10 commandments are trash.

Here's some videos for your beady little eyes to watch to show you how twisted god is with Free Will, the paradoxes, and the evils and hate of it...

https://www.youtube.com... - All Knowing god versus Free Will: The Greatest Religious Contradiction
https://www.youtube.com... - Free Will With god
https://www.youtube.com... - god Favors Evil

https://www.youtube.com... - god allows Free Will?

Now let’s look at Free Will from god’s point of view. Well the videos already did that. So you should be brushed up on the fact that god does not have Free Will, so how can man? If you believe in god you do not have Free Will of any kind. Period. Let's look at it from god's point of view because god himself does NOT have Free Will IF he knows his future. After all, how can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen? That is NOT Free Will. So if YOUR god does not have Free Will and the ability to choose, most definitely man does NOT have Free Will and the ability to choose. Got it? It will only lead you---right---back---here---this---moment------in---time.

Also there's Free Will in hate? That's makes no sense whatsoever IF this god guy is supposed to be loving, caring and kind. Wow what a true MAJOR HYPOCRITICAL CONTRADICTION if there ever was one. But then again, god and the bible are riddled with thousands of hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies which proves 0 intelligence. If this god guy of yours is omnipotent and cares, with kindness, and love in which there's no way he can because this god guy can---easily---take---the---evil---and---hate---out---of---Free Will such as the brutal rape, beating and torturing of a 6 year old girl as an example. But no, he doesn't. He leaves it in. Thus that absolutely proves that this god of yours IS EVIL(and he freely admits it several times is HIS bible. Would you like the verses?) AND IS BASED ON HATE as he truly hates children and knowingly creates children to suffer. WHAT? What kind of supreme deity PURPOSELY does this? And he freely admits it.

And ah yes, its the children that suffer and its daddy that doesn't get punished when he sticks his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face sometimes twice per week for 17 years as a prime steak example. Sick. But god creates Free Will huh? Um no. Um not a chance. Once again, if god is god loving kind and caring, in which he is clearly not, he can take the evil and hate out of free will. But no. He leaves evil in Free Will. What an artic circle antic laughing lard. So this christian god in which nobody can even prove even exists loves suffering, pain, hate, evil and wow does he prove it. That’s entirely what you believe in IF you believe in god. Don’t you dare shake your head away from it.

Now let's look at it from a child's point of view in which god truly hates children btw and your bible proves. Would you like some direct verses? Nah I didn't think so, because you christians for nearly 100% of you are true cowards and you can't even pay attention to your ignorant bible's when slamped right in front of you.

OK ready?

A 4 year old child has no Free Will whatsoever to break free from daddy when he is sticking his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face and sometimes does it for 13 years or longer as I have known someone who has gone through this kind of intense suffering and agony. Your pathetic jesus, in which there’s 0 proof of having ever existing, had it easy in being tortured for 17 hours tops. Oh but wait, its ONLY the religious christian maggots that actually believes that the perpetrator out-trumps the child with his Free Will who in comparison to the child who is treated like trash in your bible who does not get to speak one---single---sentence which is the worst form of child abuse there is, neglect and to be ignored. Well good luck with that you sickened christians because if that were your actual testimony in today's society, the key to your prison of a black hole would be thrown away for the rest of your miserable lives and rightly so.

Where is the daughters Free Will to escape? Ah yes---it---does---not---exist!!!!!!!!!!! And how dare you make the attempt to take the "value" of the perpetrators Free Will to rape innocent children over that of the "value" of children who do not have Free Will. But then again, god truly hates children as just proved. And can be proved in so many other ways. Would you like me to? Nah. I didn't think so. Religious cowards such as you run for cover anytime anything bad is said about your frail fragile demonic god that you do not have the answers for.

Do you fully understand that? god could easily be kind and caring by taking the evil out of Free Will. But he doesn’t. He leaves it in. That right there proves him to be one evil and true hate filled sickened diseased whacko.That is of course if Free Will exists if you believe in god in which case god obviously does not exist. There's no way he can. Its a vicious catch 22. And you are on the short end of the stick, always with no turnabout and absolutely no answer to refute a word as to what has just been said.

Another thing... do you really think that if god can create the universe in 6 days, that he is NOT going to control YOU and NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR FREE WILL/ CHOICES ARE? Are you insane? Of course he is.

Debate Round No. 1
Arganger

Pro

Okay, I had just wrote this big long thing, but I lost it all so I will simply write a very condensed version.

Most of what you wrote is irrelevant. Look at the debate title:

Free will can exist under God

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

John 7:17
Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God does love children:

Matthew 18:2-6
He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."If anyone causes one of these little ones"those who believe in me"to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Free will isn't the same thing as being all powerful
Free will, by my definition is: The ability to make your own choices, in such a way that is not controlled by God or another figure.
Not the ability to do every and anything. That little girl still has choices. Here are a few:

To forgive or hold on

To accept god, or reject him

To suffer in her treatment, or find joy beyond it.
backwardseden

Con

Wow. You lost your entire big long thing? There"s a solution to that. Get Google docs. No matter what you type it saves it. You don"t have to do anything.
OK onto business"
I have looked at the debate title. Free will in ab-so-lu-te-ly no way possible can exist under god.
Free will does not exist under god. Period. But obviously you did not pay any attention to the videos presented because they are irrefutable. But I get that you are extremely young and there"s A LOT that you do not fully understand because you cannot grasp it.

Absolutely none of what I said was irrelevant. In fact had you had 10,000 characters I would have been able to have stated all the way up to that.
What about getting cancer? What about being glued to a wheelchair from birth? What about autism? What about being stung by a box jellyfish? What about an entire family of 5 being murdered by daddy who decides to go on a rampage with his guns because this ignorant country, namely republicans, does nothing to curb guns? Yeah. god gives this jerk Free Will to murder his entire family. Yeah its this family's Free Will to be murdered - correct? Oh so that means god gives Free Will to Hitler, Hong Xiuquan, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin etc etc. And since when did the victims have Free Will to be mass murdered? Yeah you can not possibly be grown from fertilizer bombs. What about millions of other examples? Oh I get it, that's all Free Will huh? AND YOU 100% KNOW YOU---ARE---WRONG!!!!!! You have the intelligence and education to fully understand and get that something isn't quite right and that something is indeed screwed up here.
Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.""
Yeah right, like god is really going to take the chance at someone who is not on track to go ahead a go off the grid and ruin his supposed almighty "plan"? What"s the point in being god if there isn"t that control? What"s the point if that plan is disrupted by some fool who has Free Will and goes ahead with his Free Will and ruins god"s plan because he has Free Will?

"When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she"ll probably say "yes". And you say "Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?" And she"ll say "yes." And so you are basically saying "you"ll have free will in heaven?" So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he"s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he"s a dick." Phil Ferguson
Well that"s what was missing from RD1 and there"s 0 that you can say to refute it. Nothing. Its been that way for thousands of years. That"s why god cannot possibly exist. Now watch the videos. Because I know you haven"t.

Now answer this question" with ALL of the verses you presented does GOD state something to the effect of "I the lord thy god grant man free will."? No in fact its not even close. The verses you presented me are completely worthless, null and void and IRRELEVANT. .
"Free will, by my definition is: The ability to make your own choices, in such a way that is not controlled by God or another figure." I 100% agree. And if you believe in god, then you do not have Free Will. That has been more than proven to you in both RD1 and RD2.

Now I am going to repeat this from RD1"
Do you really think that if god can create the universe in 6 days, that he is NOT going to control YOU and NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR FREE WILL/ CHOICES ARE? Are you insane? Of course he is.

Since I have some space...
Here are some verses that show how the christian god truly hates children by causing their pain and suffering. If after you reading these verses and you do not think so, something is seriously wrong with you. No offense. You have 0 outs.
2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. From evilbible.com [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Deuteronomy 2:34 "And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:"

Numbers 31:17-18 "17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Leviticus 26:21-22 "And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate." Rob you of your children?

1 Samuel 15:3 "3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling , ox and sheep, camel and a$$."

Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Wow. Such a nice gentle caring god. This book should clearly be read to children - correct

* Exodus 21:17 "And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."
* Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
* Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
* Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
* Matthew 10:21 "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."
Do you think you should be put---to---death for cursing at your parents? Y____? N____? Why? Why Not? Your god thinks you should. After all its repeated AT LEAST 5 fricken times in his bible. But wait, what if its the reverse? What if your parents rape, beat, and torture you which is what happens most of the time? Nothing happens to them then. That"s according to YOUR bible. Indeed YOUR god truly hates children.

That's all I have to say. Please tc and have fun.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
@Arganger - I learned in college 21 years ago that there are no excuses. But your mother going into labor is as good as an excuse as any.
Posted by Arganger 2 months ago
Arganger
Oh come on!

My mother going into labor for 18 hours is a good enough excuse right?
Posted by backwardseden 2 months ago
backwardseden
@MrMosin - Really? According to what imbecile? You? How would you know? What grade of teeny bopper high school 16 year old meandering battery smooth operating easy bake oven graduating party has made you into the flubbering flapjack that you knowingly are?
Now get this and get this good... WHAT LAW? There is NO law for your free will in YOUR bible of any kind except to flat out deny it with YOUR symbolism in which was happily posted in which YOU clearly did NOT watch nor read. DUH. TEE HEE. Therefore you and ALL christians have NO free will. NONE. Too bad that YOU do not like it HOT STUFF. Deal with it.
Posted by MrMosin 2 months ago
MrMosin
Stop with the biblical literalism, con. You are supposed to read the bible with a sense of spirit of the law, not letter of the law.
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
Pray to a sort of devil or other god..And you go to Walhalla or not..Hell...Nirvana...Whatever..No. No. Free will can not exist if you are dreaming...
Posted by missmedic 2 months ago
missmedic
first you need a clear definition of free will.................................
Posted by Angry_Bird 2 months ago
Angry_Bird
There's no such thing as "the Christian god".
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