The Instigator
inaudita
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
RainbowDash52
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Free will doesn't exist

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,001 times Debate No: 64705
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

inaudita

Pro

Free Will-the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

The debate is rather self-explanitory. As pro, I shall argue against the existence of free will. Con shall debate for its existence.
Round 1 is to be acceptance and declaration of definitions. Any round forfeits will result in the forfeit of the entire debate unless the other individual pardons the other in a later round.
RainbowDash52

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
inaudita

Pro

All things are led by the principles of chemistry. Chemicals react in nearly predictable patterns*, and since our entire existence is made of chemicals, that means the entirety of existence runs in predictable patterns. We may not know the exact means of the nature of our universe nor the probability involved in it, but nonetheless the fact is reached that all things are predictable. "The brain is just a bunch of nerve cells that fire as a direct result of chemical and electrical events, with no room for free will."[1] This in turn means we have no free will.

*It is said that in quantum physics that their is certain amounts of uncertainty governing chemistry principles. This only renders it unpredictable in its entirety, if these theories in fact turn out to be true.

[1]http://www.slate.com...
RainbowDash52

Con

Hypothetical Example

Suppose you were walking down a path and it splits into 2 directions that you can choose. The universe then splits into 2 different alternate realities, one where you go down the left path, and the other where you do down the right path. Let"s say you are in the alternate reality where you went down the left path; nothing necessitated that you go down the left path. You could have been from the other alternative reality where you went down the right path. Since an action took place that was not necessitated, then by definition it was done by free will.

Note: This is a simplification. If true, these free will split universe events would most likely occur at the quantum level.

Evidence for the Example

Although it is impossible to observe the universe splitting into alternate realities, we can make predictions if we assume this happens. If the described scenario does happen, then we would expect to find seemingly random events occur in nature, since which alternate path we go down is completely random and unpredictable as opposed to if there was a single deterministic timeline. Pro conceded that there is evidence that quantum physics has uncertainty and unpredictability, so this is evidence that my free will scenario is correct, as they can easily be explained by the universe splitting into alternate realities.

Pro has the burden of proof to show that my free will scenario is false.
Debate Round No. 2
inaudita

Pro

Rebuttals

Though one may have the illusion of free will due to the possibility of more than one outcome, it still does not grant one free will. One is controlled by the physical laws of the universe which are predictable.

"One must be able to control at least one of these in order to have true choice:
1.The previous state of the universe - How the universe was configured at the moment prior to you making a decision.
2.The laws that govern the universe - The physical rules that will determine how the universe transitions from one state to another, namely from the previous-state to the next-state."[1]

We have no control over either of these circumstances, making it so that we are run in a predictable pattern

We can still face the possibility of multiple realities, but this doesn't guarantee us free will at all, it just makes it lose predictability. We are still governed by the physical laws of the universe. We have no ability on our own to govern these rules, making us still in essence governed by them.

[1] JLS21 in the comments
RainbowDash52

Con

JLS21 in the comments is not a credible source.

I gave an example of a possible scenario where an action is not necessitated and therefor by definition caused by free will. Pro gave no reason as to why my split universe scenario is false, nor did he counter my claim that this scenario has an action that is not necessitated which by definition is free will. "it just makes it lose predictability" is not an argument.
Debate Round No. 3
inaudita

Pro

JLS21 in the comments is not a credible source.
I don't see why not, I feel it good to give him credit.

I gave an example of a possible scenario where an action is not necessitated and therefor by definition caused by free will. Pro gave no reason as to why my split universe scenario is false, nor did he counter my claim that this scenario has an action that is not necessitated which by definition is free will. "it just makes it lose predictability" is not an argument.
Action was necessitated by the nature of the universe, which based on its chemical principles caused the action before it happened. Anything that ever happened was caused by something before it, removing the possibility of free will. The universe may have split possibilities but this doesn't provide free will, and it does in fact get rid of the predictability of the universe, but this matters little in this argument.
RainbowDash52

Con

necessitate definition is:
to make necessary: require [1]

Free will is defined as "the power to acting without the constraint of necessity" And since I demonstrated a scenario where there is no single required outcome for a given action since two realities could result from a single action, and therefor demonstrates free will by definition.

I gave evidence of this example.
Pro failed to refute that example.
Pro did not fulfill burden of proof.

Vote Con.

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
If I am homo and my friend rapes a hot woman because they were hetero, does it mean free will? No, because I had no choice to rape the woman because I was homo; if I resisted against raping a man, then that is free will.

Or me having sexual thoughts about a woman I am attracted to. Does that mean I have free-will to choose if I should or should not have those thoughts? No as I am a human, and my brain is genetically "wired" to make me have a sex drive. If I can choose to change my genetics at will (impossible, even with genetic engineering), then I truly have free-will.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
knowledge=free will
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
JLS21
It would be interesting to see you debate this topic.
Posted by JLS21 2 years ago
JLS21
We generally define free will as the ability to have chosen otherwise for any previous conscious decision. If one could not have willfully chosen to do otherwise for any given previous decision then that decision cannot be said to be free.

One must be able to control at least one of these in order to have true choice:
1.The previous state of the universe - How the universe was configured at the moment prior to you making a decision.
2.The laws that govern the universe - The physical rules that will determine how the universe transitions from one state to another, namely from the previous-state to the next-state.

If you do not have some measure of control over at least one of these two variables, you simply cannot control any future state of the universe. And if you are unable to control any future state of the universe, then"regardless of how it may feel to us"we are incapable of making a true, free decision. Instead, events are moving through you, and you are being given the perception that you made a choice.

Neither quantum randomness nor consciousness provide an escape from this. Randomness simply removes predictability from the universe; it does not provide humans any additional control of outcomes. Similarly, consciousness"since it does not offer the ability to control the previous state of the universe or its laws"offers no escape either, despite strong instinctual feelings to the contrary.
Posted by inaudita 2 years ago
inaudita
I hope this debate brings a good word to all the /b/ros out there.
Posted by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
Hard Determinism.
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
Wow. A lot of people here seem completely sure they know the answer to the free will problem. Interesting.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
The only reason you do not want free will is because you are not comfortable making decisions.But they will always be there staring in your face every m,orning. And as you go out in the world they may become even more uncomfortable and may even become unbearable. But they will not go away. You are a decision making being. You cannot escape making decisions. Just learn to make the right ones and life can be good.
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
There is no free will. It can't exist. Anyone who thinks it can and does, please explain how free will can work. I've yet to meet someone who can meet this challenge.
Posted by debate_power 2 years ago
debate_power
Everyone has free will. It just comes with consequences.
No votes have been placed for this debate.