The Instigator
Blended_Kittens
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
StatismHeretic
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Freedom will be a luxury in the future. Discuss in relation to 1984 & North Korea.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 590 times Debate No: 52198
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

Blended_Kittens

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for participating!

In accordance with George Orwell's 1984 and the world's current totalitarian state, North Korea, freedom will indeed be a luxury. Freedom to act on one's will, freedom of expression and freedom to privacy is destroyed in both totalitarian regimes; given that they both conduct mass surveillance, propaganda and develop cult of personalities in order to restrict these factors that constitute freedom. How does my opponent construct a rebuttal to suggest otherwise that freedom will not be a luxury in relation to the above ideas?
StatismHeretic

Con

The megalomaniacal power grabs of the state are a sign of them losing control. Suggesting freedom can be a luxury is suggesting that people don't own themselves. Every single form of government relies on the consent of the governed, for there is no higher authority in your life than yourself. Every law you follow is by your own choice, and every "authority" figure only owns you because you believe he does. The State can only control people who believe they are in control, which is why this power grab is happening right now. They are realizing that they are loosing their grip on newer generations, who have a higher tendacy to question authority, and are more likely to claim ownership over themselves. This idea is spreading like wildfire, to even include stateless societies trying to form in the US. If the state can't control the minds of the people, they have to try to use force. Once they try to flex their muscle to it's full potential, they will be exposed as being weak, and relying on the consent of all of those in the military/police to follow orders to opress their own people.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)
If you would have titled your topic as, "Government's role in society is going to make a radical change in the future, for the worst." We would have a debateable subject. If you want to pretend that's what it is, then we can have an actual debate. Otherwise I will gladly go on further to discuss how the state is all smoke and mirrors, and so long as the idea of freedom exists, it will live on as a right, not a luxury.
If you would, please watch this 10 minute video before we go any further so you know where I am coming from.
https://www.youtube.com...
"Beneath this mask, there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask, there is an idea; and idea's, Mr. Creedy, are bulletproof."
-V from V for Vendetta
Debate Round No. 1
Blended_Kittens

Pro

I see where you are coming from. Firstly your example of the US doesn't relate to the notations introduced in 1984 such as doublethink nor do they relate to North Korea. I didn't choose the topic, my friend did, and so, am trying to 'debate' with another debater about it. I guess what the topic is really saying is that freedom will be hard to obtain in the future. That is, the basic types of freedom that I mentioned earlier..."freedom of expression, to act on one's will" and any other actions that demonstrate autonomy. Let's pretend freedom is a "luxury". However, I loved your point about us being our own authority and that the government is losing grip on the newer generations, but can you link it with relation to 1984 & Korea? Because take Winston for example....He was not under the influence of the Party, he always had rebellious thoughts, and was his own person until the Party used excessive force to change him. That is, tortured him for hours on end, forcing him into submission succumbing to Big Brother, and following the party's ideologies.
StatismHeretic

Con

I apologize for not quite following what point you were trying to prove. In North Korea, the people are brainwashed to worship their leader as a god, and in 1984, Winston was really the only person believing in himself, and due to the fact of numbers, he eventually gave in to the state. Which, I might add, was still a decision on his part. That does not mean there isn't political dissent in North Korea, it just means the government has more people who worship it than other places. The good news is empires like that always collapse at some point, for it is impossible to control all minds and eradicate ideas. So long as people are able to realize that they own themselves, freedom will always exist, and society will be able to keep the state at bay. This generation's collective open mindedness (if that's a word) is going to lead to a radical change. That could lead to people abandoning themselves entirely for an all powerful authority figure, as with North Korea and 1984, but with the way the ideas of Voluntaryism and Libertarianism are taking off, I believe we may be pushing towards a radical change in the other direction. Since those ideas exist, and are available to everyone through the internet, it would take some serious sanctions by the state to tarnish it. Instead, I believe freedom is taking over the world, and people are seeing private means of replacing the state. The next step in human evolution is not slavery again, it is a world where liberty is priority, rather than luxury.

I don't really feel like this was a debate, nor was their any victor or loser. If you'd like to continue this, I will gladly accept a debate challenge or simply continue this in the comments.

Always Keep an Open Mind
Debate Round No. 2
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Blended_Kittens 2 years ago
Blended_Kittens
Yeah it was for school ahahaha. It's okay, I enjoyed my time here :) And thanks for participating! It's not the best topic, but I didn't choose it :p
Posted by StatismHeretic 2 years ago
StatismHeretic
I feel like I really didn't answer your topic. Are you doing a themed debate for school or something? In any case, you can use the fact of self ownership to trump any arguement for a totalitarian state.
Posted by Blended_Kittens 2 years ago
Blended_Kittens
Bahaha thanks man!
Posted by StatismHeretic 2 years ago
StatismHeretic
Also, Blended Kittens is the best name I have seen so far. +1 Point for you.
Posted by StatismHeretic 2 years ago
StatismHeretic
I'm sorry, there were no comments when I accepted. Please forgive me. If you'd like, you can invite me to a debate of your own?
Posted by Blended_Kittens 2 years ago
Blended_Kittens
Ah I see. A contender has arrived :)
Posted by Blended_Kittens 2 years ago
Blended_Kittens
Really? Do you know how to fix that? I'm actually new here :p I'll try my best though.
Posted by davidmgreen 2 years ago
davidmgreen
Well, thank you statism heretic for a accepting at the same time as me. *facepalm*
Posted by davidmgreen 2 years ago
davidmgreen
I tried to accept, but the program says the debate is no longer in the challenge period!
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