The Instigator
DeusMortisEst
Con (against)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
Dale.G
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Freemasons Worship Baphomet

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
DeusMortisEst
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,206 times Debate No: 29250
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (6)

 

DeusMortisEst

Con

I don't agree that freemasons worship Baphomet, and would like to debate you about it.

First round is acceptance only.
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy I already Proven to you that Freemasons Worship Baphomet here is the proof here watch this link
Debate Round No. 1
DeusMortisEst

Con

[You haven't actually proven it to me, you've shown me a video. I don't believe everything I see on YouTube.
I'm not going to watch it again at this point because you posted it in the acceptance round. The debate hadn't officially started yet. But feel free to post it again at any point in the debate.]
---
Your claim is that the Freemasons worship the demon Baphomet.
I think this is highly unlikely, as the Masons explicitly state that Freemasonry is not a substitute for religion. This is from an article written for a Masonic magazine by a Mason and Christian minister:

"In the prayer we ask that that the candidate “may so dedicate and devote his life to Thy (God’s) service as tobecome a true and faithful brother.” We seek “divine wisdom” upon Him that He may “be enabled to unfold thebeauties of true godliness.” "

[Source: http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk...]


I have done a little research, and can find no mention of Baphomet in connection with Masonry in any sources that don't have a strong anti-Masonic bias. In fact, the only mention of Baphomet by name on the Wikipedia page on Freemasonry is in the citation section, and that is in reference to the title of an anti-Masonic tract by evangelical comic artist Jack Chick, who is notoriously biased and sensationalist about a plethora of topics (including Freemasonry), and is known to get his information largely from his own imagination rather than reliable sources.


Baphomet himself is in fact NOT a genuine god or demon. He does not represent Lucifer or Satan (this is a misconception that exists for reasons that I will get to in a second). He is, in actual fact, a product of Christian folklore. The Christians, when writing their anti-Pagan propaganda, combined aspects of various Pagan and non-Christian mythologies to create a very evil looking god to claim that they worshipped. The name 'Baphomet' is actually a corruption (based on provincial dialect) of 'Mahomet', which is the Latinized form of Mohammed, and needless to say, the Christians have never been huge fans of Islam.
The reason Baphomet is often confused for the devil is that when the church were trying to stamp out Dionysian cults in Greece, they created propaganda that declared the goat (a symbol of Dionysus) and the Satyr (a half man-half goat, resembling the modern image of both the devil and Baphomet, and also a symbol of Dionysus) symbols of, and forms of Satan.
Thus, the horned, goatlike Baphomet and the horned, goatlike devil became synonymous, despite being completely separate entities.
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy how do you know that Freemasons worship the demon Baphomet.
Debate Round No. 2
DeusMortisEst

Con

I don't know that they do. I'm not sure why you're asking me that, unless there was meant to be a 'don't' in there somewhere, in which case, I don't KNOW that they don't. I am arguing that they don't based on the fact that all the evidence would suggest that they don't.

Do you have any evidence that suggests they do?
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy I have already shown you proof and evidence that Freemasons Worship Baphomet

I will show you the video evidence again http://www.youtube.com...

here I will give you more evidence that the Freemasons Worship Baphomet here is a link

Paddy you said this to me I don't agree that freemasons worship Baphomet, and would like to debate you about it.

/ Me Quote Paddy you said thus to me I don't know that they do. I'm not sure why

/ Me Quote so Paddy you cannot really debate this subject why because you said I don't know that they do. I'm not sure why

so Paddy you Contradict your self nice job lol
Debate Round No. 3
DeusMortisEst

Con

Do you know where the connection between Baphomet and the Freemasons comes from? No? I'll tell you. While researching for this debate I discovered mention of a series of anti-Masonic pamphlets written in the 19th century by a Frenchman who went by the name of Leo Taxil. Taxil claimed that the Masons worshipped Baphomet (among other demons). This is the sole source for anti-Masonic zealots such as Jack Chick.

However, Taxil (whose real name was Marie Joseph Gabriel Antoine Jogand-Pagès) admitted that the whole thing was a hoax. His exposé of the Masons was, in actual fact, a practical joke at the expense of both the Masons and the Catholic Church (who at that time hated the Masons with a passion).

Your video looks highly suspect in terms of accuracy. For one thing, the video description reads:

'Full vid. Don't ask where this material came from, I can't answer that question, but its real.'

You would think that if the information presented was as accurate as the uploader claims, then he or she would have given some citation, or would at least not concede that THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM.

---

As for your claims that I contradicted myself, I would be interested in knowing exactly where you believe I have contradicted myself.
Dale.G

Pro

here is a link to the Secret History of the Freemasons http://www.youtube.com...

/ Me Quote Paddy I have not failed to give you proof and evidence of Freemasons Worship Baphomet

Paddy you have failed to find ways to say that Freemasons do not Worship Baphomet

Paddy here where you Contradict your self Paddy you said this to me I don't agree that freemasons worship Baphomet, then Paddy you said this I don't know that they do. I'm

/ Me Quote so Paddy made a Contradiction statement by saying I don't agree that freemasons worship Baphomet, then Paddy you said this I don't know that they do. I'm

/ Me Quote I say Checkmate Paddy I checkmated you lol
Debate Round No. 4
DeusMortisEst

Con

That documentary is a TV documentary produced by the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel is highly sensationalist. In fact, most documentary networks in America are. You see, the thing with TV documentaries (and, to a lesser extent cinematic documentaries) is that they have to appeal to the public, and the public aren't as interested in the truth when speculation is so much more sensational. You can't blindly trust anything you see on TV.

You say I've failed to provide evidence that casts any doubt on the proposition that Freemasons worship Baphomet. Clearly you haven't bothered to read any of my previous arguments where I have clearly provided you with the following:

- A quote from an article written by a Christian minister/Freemason, who explicitly states that Freemasonry is neither a religion, nor incompatible with Christianity.

- Details about the history of the COMPLETELY FABRICATED god Baphomet.

- Information about the Taxil Hoax, which is the source of all the Freemason/Baphomet worship conspiracy theories.

The contradiction you claim I have made is not at all a contradiction. I don't agree that the Freemasons worship Baphomet. I said 'I don't know that they do' because you posted as your first argument/rebuttal:

"Paddy how do you know that Freemasons worship the demon Baphomet."

To which I responded:

"I don't know that they do."

Please, if you are going to quote me, quote me in context.

You haven't checkmated me as we are not playing chess. You have not won the debate yet. Please stop declaring victory before we even make it to the voting period.
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy I cannot accept your false claims without proof and evidence Paddy you quoted this Details about the history of the COMPLETELY FABRICATED god Baphomet.

/ Me Quote Paddy you never used any proof and evidence for your claim about Details about the history of the COMPLETELY FABRICATED god Baphomet.

and yes you have Contradicted your self by the statement you said this is what you said I don't agree that the Freemasons worship Baphomet. I said 'I don't know that they do' because you posted as your first argument/rebuttal:

/ Me Quote Paddy be honest which is it going to be here Paddy Paddy you said I don't agree that the Freemasons worship Baphomet.

/ Me Quote then Paddy you said this s I don't know that they do

/ Me Quote Paddy you cannot eat your cake and have it both ways Paddy you have to be honest about the Contradiction statement that you have made :)

well I have given video proof and evidence that Freemasons Worship Baphomet

and how I know I won this debate is because Paddy is the one who made the Tittle for this debate and Paddy named the tittle for this debate by saying Freemasons Worship Baphomet if Paddy never believed that the Freemasons Worship Baphomet then Paddy would never of put for the tittle for this debate as Freemasons Worship Baphomet
So Paddy has lost this debate and yes Paddy I will say again CHECKMATE CHECKER CHECKMATE ehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehhe,bahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahaha
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by JasonGlenn 4 years ago
JasonGlenn
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: This one is a simple no brainer. Freemasons do not worship the Baphomet "as above so below" symbol.
Vote Placed by minstrel 4 years ago
minstrel
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: This is somehow worse than Dale.G's prior debates...god knows how.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: "I won this debate is because Paddy is the one who made the Tittle for this debate and Paddy named the tittle for this debate by saying Freemasons Worship Baphomet" - Your opponent actually took the CON position, disagreeing with the title of the debate. Con presented evidence for his perspective whereas Pro made ridiculous arguments and mistated his opponent's position using poor spelling and grammar.
Vote Placed by rowsdower 4 years ago
rowsdower
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro displayed childish behavior, his ideas were barely comprehensible, and he demonstrated failure to grasp basic english.
Vote Placed by Mangani 4 years ago
Mangani
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Wow... I don't even know what to say... do I really have to "explain" myself???
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
DeusMortisEstDale.GTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had terrible conduct, atrocious spelling and grammar, no argument, and no reliable sources. All points go to Con.