The Instigator
MRAAJ
Pro (for)
The Contender
jackgilbert
Con (against)

Freethinking V Religion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/26/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 468 times Debate No: 106136
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

MRAAJ

Pro

I will be defending Freethinking. This debate comes in light of my recent exploits of extremist FollowerOfChrist1955. Things got personal, however he never really addressed the negatives of religion, whereas I addressed both pros-cons. I'm looking for someone to defend religion as opposed to freethought (individualism with god).

I myself have stated many religions are against self thought:
-Islam: is all about surrendering to god
-Sikhism (my religion): separates a freethinker (manmukh) to a godsman (gurmukh)
-You can just ask follower' about the bible, he talks about it all the time.

Conversely ideologies such as Buddhism, deism, paganism and even atheism tackle being in the current state, and working towards a better, simpler future.

I am defending freethought because religion thrives on fear, control and is highly appealing to a narcissist. Whereas FT is all about morals, ethics, and soul searching.

R1;Acceptance
R2: Further arguments, and criticisms
R3: Rebuttals
R4: Conclusion
Argument may expand-continue in comments section.
jackgilbert

Con

I accept the debate challenge. Are we just arguing which one is correct, or are we arguing which one is the result of this universe?
Debate Round No. 1
MRAAJ

Pro

An introduction to Freethought, and why I believe it is better than aligning oneself to a religious organisation...

Basic Wikipedia interpretation: Freethought is a philosophical ideology which holds that positions regarding TRUTH should be formed on the basis of LOGIC, and REASON, rather than authority, tradition, and divine revelation. In particular, freethought is strongly tied with the rejection of traditional socio-religious belief systems. For more on that see Wikipedia yourself, you may argue its written by common folk, however research suggests that the majority of Wikipedia pages are written and edited by a core few thousand dedicated journalists.

About me: Anyways, here is why I am a freethinker: Haters may argue bias, but its important to explain narrative.
So as mentioned on other pages, MRAAJ is a Centre Liberal in a Conservative household, growing up I observed more than I listened (still do), so I'd call myself anti-authority, simply because I saw how horrible the world was around me, and I was the only one doing something about it, while others continued being hypocrites. For example, my dad is an alcoholic, everyone ostracised him for it, but I applied logic and studied psychology to help him, and it is working.
Tying this with religion, my gran would teach me about the horrific struggle that the Sikhs (my religion) had with the Muslims, but I quickly caught on of how biased those stories were, and that the Muslims had their own side of the story to tell. Nonetheless I was intrigued by religion during my teens, but at the same time remaining an independent person. By studying religion you can notice all mainstream religions have a common objective. Especially the Abrahamic religions. That goal being "gain as many followers as possible because what we say is the word of god (ie holy text)", its funny how similar they are, but all contradict each other. What I mean by this is, religion can not thrive without violence, see ISIS now, the crusades of Christianity, etc. So yeh the victors get to tell the story. In short, actions speak louder than words, and I observe.

The flaw with religion: Religion should teach you to form a connection with god, instead organisations have been plagued w/ corruption, money, and sin (eg priests raping kids). The only positive about religion is that may help in time of need, and there is a sense of community. Any smart man knows they can connect to god without going to an organisation.

Dogmatic Religion is highly appealing to a sinner: Example: people feel "I have sinned, so must to go to church to rectify myself", I did this several times during uni ( I WAS PROB THE ONLY STUDENT WHO WENT TO THE TEMPLE REGULARLY). But a true good person knows to treat others like they'd want to be treated. Not matter how many times I went, I kept sinning, SOUL SEARCHING and KNOWLEDGE resolves things, not going to temple.

Why we are prone to Sin, and how religion exploits it: This society is evil, those who don't fit in (like me) can either become lone wolves or sell out due to insecurities (girls want to be thin, men want to have muscles-example). No one is perfect, but institutions make us feel like dogcrap just so we keep coming back, donating money that may or may not be reinvested in to the org. Just last year, a man was killed by a gang for witnessing a priest steal money from my local temple.

Freethinkers accept people: We are not going to deny people based on their sexuality (my family is homophobic, and unfortunately I am too because of this), gender, or race, just because a bible speaks out against it. Freethinkers like me will always point out ignorance and challenge authority.

Problem with a holy text: God did not write them, Man did, the Quran was written by Christians ffs. My religious scripture (the SGG) was ripped to shreds by rivals hundreds of years ago, and had to be rewritten, so how knows what the original said.

Why religious folk can not call me fake, ie am I an atheist?: No, because i do believe in a higher power, sometimes i show contempt against god, but like in the book of Job, i rely on him, or her, in times of need. Would i take a million cash or spend a life trying to find god?: I would take the money, and do good with it.

Why you can't discredit me: I understand Gideon's, some of the Quran, the Sikh SGG, and then I have basic understanding of the other religions (Buddhism, paganism, deism, Hinduism).

Apologies for the lack of research, i needed this to be authentic, can add it in the next round.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
I just want to add, I feel you can not live life without experiencing both sides of the coin. What I mean is you will always be ignorant if you disregard what other people are saying, as you can grow as a person.

Simply put you can be engulfed in the sciences, but you will forever be faithless, you're simply living for the sake of living, and not for the benefit of finding peace.

Likewise, you can be engulfed in religious studies, but forever be blinded by reason, logic, and realism,
both sides desperately claiming they are right.

because knowledge is power, ignorance is bliss.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
paulisa' ive calmed down now, no worries.
Posted by paulsilasmills1863 6 months ago
paulsilasmills1863
Tell me why did you call this Gentleman or lady an Extremist. I do not see them with a Assault rifle? Would you like it if we called you Extremists?
Posted by backwardseden 6 months ago
backwardseden
@MRAAJ - You will find here that there's true scum like followerofchrist who babbles on and on and on WITHOUT PROOF of any kind. Then you will also find that there are also screaming-for-attention also without proof of any kind such as so so so many teeny boppers and a few aged beyond them, sadly, who also don't know what they are talking about. So what they do instead is they invent excuses and or flat out lie for something in which they know absolutely nothing about rather than simply saying "I don't know". And the thing is, those three simple words are true terrorist words to christians because dare their god ever be proven wrong in which he flat out is in his bible time and time again? Of course not. So again, the excuses come flying in. Even worse is when someone point blank asks you to clarify your debate AFTER they sign up for it!!!!!!!!!! Nah. They can't send you a message to do that or post you. they have to sign up thus ruining any chance for an intelligent debate by allowing someone else to take that person's place or perhaps you answering the question(s) on the side and thus either way allowing an intelligent debate to hopefully proceed.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
Ok cool, just to clarify (think it's my own term so need it to make absolute sense) = Freethinking means living life without an obligation to any religious organisation. It's not quite the same as freewill, but very much similar. Deism is also quite similar to what I'm trying to say.
Posted by jackgilbert 6 months ago
jackgilbert
Ok, thank you MRAAJ, you can start at whatever time works best for you. Thank you for clarifying the debate topic.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
il start tomorrow, unless u wanna go before hand.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
Hi Jack, we are going to debate which approach to life is best, from an armchair perspective. Discuss the universe if you want, as I've got opinions on that too. Best of Luck
Posted by squonk 6 months ago
squonk
MRAAJ,

I don't think there's any use arguing wth FollowerofChrist1955. He thinks within the narrow confines of religious dogma. FollowerofChrist1955 is a living example of how Christianity damages the human mind. He lives in a prison of fear...he isn't free to ask questions & he isn't allowed to be open to any answers that conflict with the Christian dogma he's been brainwashed into believing.
Posted by MRAAJ 6 months ago
MRAAJ
Oh and one more thing. I bet you must be livid. You must have spend hours typing that bull, only me for tear you down time and time again, in a matter of seconds, I've made you doubt your whole existence haven't I, one source boy, Seriously old man, face it you are not smart. Preaching Narcs like you hate being exposed. All you can say Is that i'm condemned to hell, by my friend it is you who will rot there, for the failure to recognise the truth about life. Life is messy, Life is hard. Life is a journey, quoting a book doesn't mean you have overcome it. Experience life for once in your life. No wander you home school your grandchildren, scared they will open their eyes.

Know your role, otherwise smart people like me will put in one.

Am I young?-yes
Immature?- At times
I am an ignorant narc?- NO, THAT BE YOU. Age is not a factor if you have brains
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