The Instigator
studentathletechristian8
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
BellumQuodPacis
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points

From a Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
BellumQuodPacis
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,397 times Debate No: 12001
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (8)

 

studentathletechristian8

Con

I thank my opponent and the audience in advance for the opportunity to debate.

I negate the resolution, "From a Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death."

The "Christian standpoint" is the stance that believes in the Holy Bible of the Christian God and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The "followers of the Jewish faith" simply refers to people that are religiously Jewish.

The "heaven after death" is pretty self-explanatory. For this debate, we will assume that a "heaven" does exist after death, and it comes from the Christian perspective.

Instead of arguing about specific wording, it is to be understood that the debate will focus on religious perspective and insight.

This round is utilized for clarifications and any concerns that my opponent may have. I would prefer if my opponent uses this round to simply accept the debate and allows me to begin in Round Two.

I thank whoever accepts this debate.
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

I thank my opponent for this debate and love the irony behind debating a fellow Palm-Beacher like SAC.

As per request, and no objections to my opponents standards, I will allow him to begin. Thank you studentathletechristian and good luck to you!
Debate Round No. 1
studentathletechristian8

Con

I thank my opponent for accepting.

Argumentation:

1) Old Covenant - in the Christian Bible, Yahweh establishes the Mosaic Covenant (Old Covenant) with the Israelites after he saved them from bondage in Egypt in the events of The Exodus. This covenant is God's eternal promise to people of Jewish belief that they shall be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. Thus, from this Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith can enter heaven after death.

2) Judaism and Christianity - Christianity began as a sect within Judaism. One may argue that the Christian faith differs from the Jewish faith, but we cannot forget Judeo-Christian tradition and teachings.

3) Jesus was Jewish - Christians believe that Jesus Himself was a Jew. Also, Christians believe that Jesus sits at the right of the Father in heaven. Thus, it is simply illogical to believe that followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death; Jesus, a Jew, already resides there according to Christian doctrine.

That shall be it for now. Thank you.
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

I thank my opponent for responding within a timely manner, and wish him the best of luck. To be completely honest, I thought I was the one saying that Jews CAN enter heaven...well...here goes nothing!
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Refutation
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"Old Covenant - in the Christian Bible, Yahweh establishes the Mosaic Covenant (Old Covenant) with the Israelites after he saved them from bondage in Egypt in the events of The Exodus. This covenant is God's eternal promise to people of Jewish belief that they shall be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. Thus, from this Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith can enter heaven after death."

As said in the resolution, "From a Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death." The keyword here would be, "from a christian standpoint". Of course from a non-devout standpoint, this is acceptable, after all, Jesus does forgive and forget according to the Bible. However, the resolution is from a Christian standpoint, and 1/2 sides isn't the whole standpoint. According to the devout side of Christianity, those who do not repent for what they believe in, will not be accepted into the Kingdom of God. And because devout Jews will not repent for what they believe in, it is quite simple the outcome would be denied entry to Heaven. Although my opponent might state "well what if they do repent, then they will go to heaven", I must disagree. The resolution specifically states "From a Christian standpoint, followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death." Not if Jews Repent. So we must look at this as an unapologetic Jewish man/woman trying to get into heaven through the eyes of a Christian. And the fact of the matter is, because Jewish people do not believe in Jesus Christ, the messiah, and Christians do, it is quite simple, from a Christian standpoint, Jews will not enter heaven.

Considering how I just basically fit my argument into a paragraph I will just refute the rest.

"2) Judaism and Christianity - Christianity began as a sect within Judaism. One may argue that the Christian faith differs from the Jewish faith, but we cannot forget Judeo-Christian tradition and teachings."

Again, this resolution is from a Christian standpoint, not Judeo-Christian. From the Christian standpoint, the Jewish man cannot enter heaven due to his lack of faith in Jesus Christ.

"3) Jesus was Jewish - Christians believe that Jesus Himself was a Jew. Also, Christians believe that Jesus sits at the right of the Father in heaven. Thus, it is simply illogical to believe that followers of the Jewish faith cannot enter heaven after death; Jesus, a Jew, already resides there according to Christian doctrine."

This is true, however, the Jews do not believe him to be the Messiah, contradicting Christian ideals. Therefore, Jews are, again, not permitted to enter heaven.

I await your next argument. Also, to see the basic construction of my argument see refutation 1. Thank you very much. Please vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 2
studentathletechristian8

Con

studentathletechristian8 forfeited this round.
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

Extend all arguments. Vote PRO
Debate Round No. 3
studentathletechristian8

Con

1) Jewish people have a special connection with God. All one has to do is repent to the Father and ask for forgiveness. Since Jews do this, it is logical that they will enter heaven. Before Jesus came to earth, do you think God would have denied Abraham, Moses, Joshua, etc. from heaven simply because His son hadn't come yet? That's just nonsense. The way to heaven is repentance and faith in the Holy God.

2) Lack of faith in Jesus Christ does not deny someone from heaven. Like I stated above, it is quite illogical for this to occur.

3) Once again, my opponent makes a faulty argument.

My opponent's arguments are quite faulty. I urge a Con vote. Thank you.
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

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Refutation
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"Jewish people have a special connection with God. All one has to do is repent to the Father and ask for forgiveness. Since Jews do this, it is logical that they will enter heaven. Before Jesus came to earth, do you think God would have denied Abraham, Moses, Joshua, etc. from heaven simply because His son hadn't come yet? That's just nonsense. The way to heaven is repentance and faith in the Holy God."

Im sorry to say that is is you who has the faulty argument. You cannot analyze your own resolution correctly. From a Christian standpoint is by far, the most important phrase in the resolution. From a Jewish standpoint, if you repent, welcome to heaven. From a Christian standpoint, Jews must repent and accept Jesus Christ s the messiah. For support, I turn to Tim LaHaye's book, "Left Behind". In this series, the apocalypse has happened and the rapture occurred. The only ones not to be raptured were the "non-believers". The significace is that they were considered those who did not accept Jesus Christ as the messiah. Tim LaHaye is also a pastor of Christian religion. Well known as well. Towards the end, many Jews repent, however God does not accept them mainly due to the fact of their non-belief of Jesus Christ. Accurate sources. Accurate apprehension of resolution. Opponent is null in this argument.

"Lack of faith in Jesus Christ does not deny someone from heaven. Like I stated above, it is quite illogical for this to occur."

Again, lack of understanding.

"Once again, my opponent makes a faulty argument."

I appreciate you poisoning the well.

As you can see, my opponent has failed to grasp his own resolution. All of his points should technically be discarded, however that is up to the voter. When voting, please take into consideration the forfeit from Round 3.

Please Vote PRO. I appreciate the Voter and SAC's time.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
SAC8, I see where you are coming from, but...Really?
Being a Jew =/= Being in the Jewish faith. The Jewish say that Jesus was not the son of God. Jesus said he was the son of God. Argument 3is illogical.
Posted by Rockylightning 7 years ago
Rockylightning
Agreed Before: Pro -There is no heaven.
Agreed After: Pro -There is no heaven.
Conduct: Pro - Con forfeited a round.
Spelling: Tied -No major errors
Convincing arguments: Tied- There is no heaven, therefore arguments are not convincing.
Reliable Sources: Tied- None stated
Posted by Hurstman 7 years ago
Hurstman
Conduct- PRO- Con forfeited a round

S&G- TIED- No major flaws

Convincing Arguments- PRO- Agreed with KRF that Con trpped himself within the resolution

Sources- TIED- Both used good sources
Posted by KRFournier 7 years ago
KRFournier
Conduct - Pro - Con forfeited a round. I disagree with Nick's usage of this point. Conduct is about extending due courtesy to your opponent. Forfeiting places a debate into DDO purgatory, which wastes the opponent's time. This, to me, is clearly poor conduct.

Spelling and Grammar - Tie

Argument - Pro - Con trapped himself within his own resolution. Pro successfully argued that the resolution limits the discussion from the Christian vantage point, and Con never responded to this.

Sources - Tie - Both sides relied on a general understanding of these faith systems rather than specific sightings. Thus, both sides used equally reliable sources.
Posted by BellumQuodPacis 7 years ago
BellumQuodPacis
Thank you nick I do appreciate the RFD. Also, I didnt mean you lmao I actuallyt meant headphone and the other guy
Posted by nickthengineer 7 years ago
nickthengineer
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think forfeiting has anything to do with the conduct category. I look for personal attacks and the like for that one. Con just ran out of time which happens occasionally. And as for sources, you both simply referred to the Bible without quoting specific passages. You used an argument from authority once (Tim Lahaye) and mentioned his Biblically based fiction novels. Not nearly enough to warrant the sources point.
Posted by BellumQuodPacis 7 years ago
BellumQuodPacis
Nick I dont agree with your conduct and sources vote. Conduct should be me because he forfeited.
And sources should be me because I was the one to use the sources.
Posted by nickthengineer 7 years ago
nickthengineer
According to the Christian Bible, God has given us only one name under heaven to call on for salvation (Acts 4:12). Therefore, if the Jews reject this Person as their means of salvation, Christians and Jews cannot both go to heaven. They are at odds on how to receive salvation.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
No. Honestly, I ran out of time for this debate. I wish I could have spent much more on argumentation and thought development.

Zesty, I really dislike the way you behave as a "Christian" on this site. In fact, I don't think you understand what Christianity is about. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
Posted by Zetsubou 7 years ago
Zetsubou
How could you accualy think you could win this SAC?

This is what Dante's first hell was for. Mock Heaven or Jew heaven.

One cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven without the son and one cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven without the father.

Hello?!? Let me guess just a methapor?
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Rockylightning 7 years ago
Rockylightning
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by Hurstman 7 years ago
Hurstman
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by headphonegut 7 years ago
headphonegut
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by KRFournier 7 years ago
KRFournier
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by BellumQuodPacis 7 years ago
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studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by whatisx 7 years ago
whatisx
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by nickthengineer 7 years ago
nickthengineer
studentathletechristian8BellumQuodPacisTied
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