The Instigator
Lee001
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Diego_St.Clair
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Frozen is a bad movie.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Lee001
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/22/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,050 times Debate No: 73983
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

Lee001

Con

So, my friend Diego has came up with this topic. He has the nerve to talk crap about Frozen. Diego must show substantial evidence that Frozen is infact a horrible movie.
In the first round, Con must accept and bring forward his argument.
Good luck! :)
Diego_St.Clair

Pro

Thanks for creating this debate Lee! I am confident that by the time I present all my points, you yourself will think less of Frozen.

I have to say, I didn't really think much of Frozen from the start. Yeah, it was another Disney princess movie, this time centered around snow and a new hit song. The first time I actually saw Frozen was about a year after it's release. I decided to give it a fair chance and was actually a little excited, given all the hype and good reviews around it. I sat down, watched it, and wondered what I had just spent an hour and a half of my life doing. It's not that I didn't like Frozen, it's that I hated Frozen. Every single element was put together without much thought, and these three aspects stuck out so sorely it was unforgivable.

1) Paper-thin story

2) Characters

And don't even get me started on the

3) Villain


1) The story, if I can even call it that, does have it's imagination we've come to expect in a Disney film. However, that's probably the only good thing about this flick. The imagination it does have isn't that fascinating either. A four-year old child could think up a story on the same level as this. The Lego Movie was the same, but the difference was that it knew how childish it was and used that to it's advantage to create possible the best animated movie I've ever seen. Frozen, however, acts like it's serious about it's plot. It starts out with Elsa, a sister who randomly was born with powers over ice and snow. She accidentally puts ice into her sister one night and then the royal family take a trip into the woods to meet a bunch of totally random and unnecessary smurf trolls. The smurf trolls are extremely helpful (psych). All they do is heal Anna from one thing, only to say something else she has is incurable and she will die. Then they erase their memories and everything goes back to normal, except for the fact that Elsa doesn't leave her room for about ten years. Is that even possible or remotely healthy? The rest of the movie is just as ridiculous, but I digress...

2)Frozen had some of the worst characters I have ever seen in film. Anna is a half-crazed whore who falls in love with a creepy prince in one night just because she didn't leave the palace for a long time and was lonely. Oh and lets not forget that she could've left at any time!Anyways, her sister is just as bad. Elsa, a poor princess who freezes the entire country just because she's upset that she can't control her magical abilities. Ok, number 1, how did she even get her powers in the first place is what I want to know, and number 2, why does she freeze the entire country if supposedly she likes the people who live there, not to mention her sister. It's like she likes the people, but she ices their entire country anyways and then justifies it with "Let it go". The trolls are just terrible, they were completely random and I was like "Wtf are these abominations" for their entire screentime. Kristoff, I believe his name is, is almost as bad as the trolls. We first see him acting like he is gay for his reindeer, which is more than a little disturbing. He is a complete idiot when he tries to do anything. Overall, he was a horrible addition to the already laughably bad list. Olaf. Yeah, I'm going to go there. I thought he was, if possible, even worse than those dang trolls. His attitude is so care free you just can't feel that he's cool, which he kind of is. The problem is, after a while you start to realize this is a frikin snowman you are watching, and don't start telling me how adorable he is, because literally, he's a snowman.

3)Ahh, I just love a good Disney movie. They're all so imaginative and I especially love the villains. Oh, lets watch Frozen. I would be totally fine with that except for the fact that there really isn't a villain! Unless you count the creepy prince who gets stopped so easily it makes Ratatouille look like The Avengers! We start the movie off thinking Elsa isn't a villain(unless you watched the trailer, in that case you already knew half the movie), then she ices the entire land, so we think she is the villain, only to have her kiss her sister and become the hero of the movie. The creepy prince is the worst villain I've ever seen, his plan literally counted on Elsa have magical ice powers. When he tries to kill Anna, his method is leaving her in a room instead of doing what any other rational person would do in his postion and actually kill her on the spot. Of course, she gets saved, only to freeze outside so Elsa can teach the youth of America that girls kissing girls is the true sign of love. Then the villain falls into the sea. End of story.

So, as you can see, Frozen is actually quite a flawed movie. I hope you understood my arguments for the most part. Thank you and see you in the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
Lee001

Con

Summary [1] Anna, a fearless optimist, sets off on an epic journey - teaming up with rugged mountain man Kristoff and his loyal reindeer Sven - to find her sister Elsa, whose icy powers have trapped the kingdom of Arendelle in eternal winter. Encountering Everest-like conditions, mystical trolls and a hilarious snowman named Olaf, Anna and Kristoff battle the elements in a race to save the kingdom. From the outside Anna's sister, Elsa looks poised, regal and reserved, but in reality, she lives in fear as she wrestles with a mighty secret-she was born with the power to create ice and snow. It's a beautiful ability, but also extremely dangerous. Haunted by the moment her magic nearly killed her younger sister Anna, Elsa has isolated herself, spending every waking minute trying to suppress her growing powers. Her mounting emotions trigger the magic, accidentally setting off an eternal winter that she can't stop. She fears she's becoming a monster and that no one, not even her sister, can help her.

The Characters: [2]

Anna

Anna is more daring than graceful and, at times, can act before she thinks.

Elsa

From the outside, Elsa looks poised, regal and reserved, but in reality, she lives in fear as she wrestles with a mighty secret.

Olaf

He's Olaf and he likes warm hugs. He is by far the friendliest snowman to walk the mountains above Arendelle.

Kristoff

Kristoff is a true outdoorsman. He lives high up in the mountains where he harvests ice and sells it to the kingdom of Arendelle.

Hans

Hans is a handsome royal from a neighboring kingdom who comes to Arendelle for Elsa's coronation.

Rebuttals

1. Diego states "The smurf trolls are extremely helpful (psych). All they do is heal Anna from one thing, only to say something else she has is incurable and she will die. Then they erase their memories and everything goes back to normal, except for the fact that Elsa doesn't leave her room for about ten years. Is that even possible or remotely healthy? The rest of the movie is just as ridiculous, but I digress..."

They remove Anna's memory so that way she wouldn't remember Elsa had powers. Elsa needed to learn how to have powers? I mean what's a Disney movie without someone having some sort of powers? Now about Elsa leaving her room, she did this for Anna's safety. Would it be healthy if she continued to accidently hurt Anna? No. She secluded herself to protect her sister whom she loves.

2. "Frozen had some of the worst characters I have ever seen in film. Anna is a half-crazed whore who falls in love with a creepy prince in one night just because she didn't leave the palace for a long time and was lonely."

Don't even get me started on this....there are many Disney movies where the princess or a girl fall's in love with the prince at first sight. So you have no room to pick on Anna for this. It was clear from the beginning Kristoff loved Anna. I mean he sacrificed his life for her on many occasions. It was clear he cared for her. HE EVEN PUT HIS SLED IN DANGER FOR HER!

3. This summary part has so much words in it that aren't even needed...like I'll just tell you why Han's is a villain.

Just like any other villain, he tries to kill Elsa. I mean Hello??? That's a villain! [3] The “Villain”
Frozen doesn’t have a typical villain — or rather, the typical villains it has are relatively unmemorable and uninteresting. Structurally, though, the person who should be the film’s villain is not a villain at all, but a heroine: Queen Elsa’s ability to freeze everything around her becomes a monstrous force, and she’s the one who, intentionally or not, creates most of the challenges the film’s more typical heroes — Princess Anna, especially — have to contend with, from a giant snowman called Marshmallow to a scary and deadly ice castle. That’s because the character in Andersen’s original fairy tale is, in fact, an evil witch. In this way, Frozen partly acts like one of those revisionist fairy tales that have become so fashionable in recent years, stories that serve either as prequels or as tales told from the villain’s point of view, like Wicked or Oz the Great and Powerful or the upcoming Maleficent.

Why Frozen is AMAZING

Okay, every song on that movie is unforgettable! I mean "Let it Go" and "For the first time" have to be my favorite.

[4]

Speaking of Let It Go, it is a rousing brilliant musical number very much in the same vein as Defying Gravity from Wicked. This is unsurprising given the Idina Menzel connection, and Let It Go must be the definitive song for the last decade from a Disney film. It’s certainly on the same level as the wonderful Defying Gravity, simply because of the power of Idina Menzel’s performance.

The song was also pivotal in the story of Elsa within the film, as it turned Elsa from what appeared to be a villain into someone who desired the freedom to be herself. That is a feeling that most people can understand, and helped the viewer to see a different side of Elsa that had only briefly been portrayed at that point during the film. All in all, Let It Go is a brilliant, memorable and very catchy song.

Perfectly put.

[5]

Disney Princess films will generally have an ending where the girl meets a boy who ultimately makes her life better. It’s the happily-ever-after scenario, after all. But Frozen takes this idea and turns it on its head, knocking you back with a double twist. Firstly the happy romance between Anna and Hans takes a turn for the evil when the Prince shows his true colors – he simply wants to rule the Kingdom and would’ve sought to kill Elsa if he’d managed to marry Anna.

But of course we needed a villain in the piece, so this isn’t a real surprise. What is a major shock is the ending of the film. It’s all set up so Anna and Kristoff can share a true love’s kiss in order to save Anna’s life. She was hit by an ice blast in the heart from Elsa and only an act of true love can save her. So we see Anna and Kristoff trying to find each other in the fog while Hans is trying to find and kill Elsa..

Then out of nowhere the fog clears and we find that Anna wasn’t running to Kristoff, but was in fact saving Elsa from Hans as she froze over. But immobilised, she saves her sister – an act of true love, which also saves her own life. With that, Disney single handily modernised the Princess story and made it a story about two sisters looking out for each other rather than a woman who needs a man to be happy.

So as you can see, those were our 8 reasons why Frozen is the best Disney film since the days of Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. But this is just our opinion – let us know below what you thought of Frozen.

Now what I love about Frozen is that its not all about "love" I mean Kristoff and Anna do fall inlove. But its also about sisterhood, and helping each other out no matter what the cost it. Very few Disney movies express this.

[6]

Disney Princess films will generally have an ending where the girl meets a boy who ultimately makes her life better. It’s the happily-ever-after scenario, after all. But Frozen takes this idea and turns it on its head, knocking you back with a double twist. Firstly the happy romance between Anna and Hans takes a turn for the evil when the Prince shows his true colors – he simply wants to rule the Kingdom and would’ve sought to kill Elsa if he’d managed to marry Anna.

But of course we needed a villain in the piece, so this isn’t a real surprise. What is a major shock is the ending of the film. It’s all set up so Anna and Kristoff can share a true love’s kiss in order to save Anna’s life. She was hit by an ice blast in the heart from Elsa and only an act of true love can save her. So we see Anna and Kristoff trying to find each other in the fog while Hans is trying to find and kill Elsa..

Then out of nowhere the fog clears and we find that Anna wasn’t running to Kristoff, but was in fact saving Elsa from Hans as she froze over. But immobilised, she saves her sister – an act of true love, which also saves her own life. With that, Disney single handily modernised the Princess story and made it a story about two sisters looking out for each other rather than a woman who needs a man to be happy.

So as you can see, those were our 8 reasons why Frozen is the best Disney film since the days of Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. But this is just our opinion – let us know below what you thought of Frozen.

Back to Pro!!

Sources:

[1] http://www.imdb.com...

[2] http://frozen.disney.com...

[3] http://www.vulture.com...

[4] http://whatculture.com...

[5 & 6] http://whatculture.com...



Diego_St.Clair

Pro

Con made some good arguments and points, but reading over her round, I saw a lot of material that would go to support my opinion.

The Characters (2): Con says Anna can "act before she thinks". That just goes to support the point I made when I said that Anna falls in love with that creepy prince in one night. She acts before she thinks! She doesn't think of the irrationality of the situation, but goes ahead and falls in love anyway! What kind of morals are we teaching the youth of America with this scenario? That it is perfectly fine and acceptable to fall and love and make plans for your future with somebody after not even a full day with them? It is flawed in so many ways, I could write my entire debate just on this one idea.

Con then goes on to describe Elsa, "Elsa looks poised, regal and reserved, but in reality, she lives in fear as she wrestles with a mighty secret". While I won't deny the truth of that statement, it is only true at the beginning of the movie. She then throws it out the window when she runs away and freezes the entire country. I'm still not sure why she did that, considering she loves and cares for the people she is freezing. She is extremely weak as she doesn't face her fears, instead running away and leaving misery and destruction behind her.

Con brings up Olaf, saying he likes warm hugs and that he is by far the friendliest snowman to walk the mountains above Arendelle. I don't deny any of that, again, but possibly the biggest reason behind my dislike for him is the fact that he has absolutely no character development. We see him at the very beginning, lifeless and then only for about a second. Halfway through the movie he pops out of nowhere and we are supposed to act like this is the moment we've been waiting for all along. He sings an absolute BS song about summer, considering how it is unlikely he even knows what summer is, and even if he does, why would a snowman want to experience summer? That's a death sentence, the equivalent of a human wanting to visit the sun. I mean, come on, we are watching a snowman with an apparent suicide wish.

I am going to skip Con's description of Kristoff, as I simply don't have the inclination or character count remainder to waste on him. I will skip Hans as well.

Now I will go over Con's rebuttals:

1. Con discusses how Elsa was protecting Anna by secluding herself because she loves Anna. Well, if she loves Anna so much, why does she freeze everything as soon as she leaves and seemingly doesn't care about unfreezing the land until random stuff happens.

2. Con talks about how many Disney movies involves love at first sight. She argues how since many of them have it, it somehow pardons this movie from including it. Honey, just because lots of people do something doesn't mean it's right. That's like saying that since many people do illegal things it is perfectly fine to participate in such activities. This movie is essentially telling our youth that falling in love is so trivial as for it to happen in less than a day. And by arguably the main character as well! And I think Con might have been a little confused by who I was talking about here in the last round... I was referring to that one prince who turns out to be the villain, I think? I really don't know who Hans is supposed to be in the movie, honestly.

3. Con spends some time on the topic I brought up in my last round: My opinion that there is no real villain in Frozen, of if there is, he/she/it is just entirely ridiculous. Con seems to recognize Hans as the main villain and then goes on to attempt to explain why he is a good villain. See, the way I look at it is, villains are always better when they have special powers or at least some special ability. At least, physical or mental strength. Hans has none of these, and it shows when he gets thrown into the sea. Con also thinks that since Frozen doesn't have a typical villain, it makes it's off-color villain all the more memorable. But come on folks, when have you ever heard anybody or anything talk about Hans? He might be the most unmemorable Disney villain of all time, actually. It's villains like Robert Callaghan, Lotso, Ursula and even King Candy that we remember as being the coolest villains around. Hans is the least entitled to be titled memorable. Heck, I barely remembered him the next morning while I was reminiscing the movie. Going back to an argument I brought up in the last round, he can't even kill somebody! Instead he leaves his victim, Anna, locked up in a room, where of course some random person is going to let her loose. Any sensible villain would get the job done, but no, he just has to spare Anna's life so he will lose at the end of the movie. Now, if Hans had won, and put Anna, Elsa, Kristoff and Olaf in torture cells, I would've rated this a 10/10. That's the kind of ending Disney movies need. Ok, not exactly, but anything would be better than the ending they give us, with Elsa kissing Anna in a scene that probably sparked an extra 25% of young girls becoming lesbian. To this day I'm worried my sister will grow up to be like Elsa.

I think I've covered enough ground for this round. In the next round I will thoroughly discuss the second half of Con's last round. Thank you.



Debate Round No. 2
Lee001

Con

1st things first, I'm not your "hunny" so don't call me that. Okay? Okay.

I'd like to say that Pro, uses his *own opinion* and never uses and reliable sources, like I have to back up my claim.

*Since Pro just "clumped" all of his "Rebuttals" together, I must paste all of what he said, so you know exactly what I am rebutting. This ends up to be a poor written argument on Pro's part.

"The Characters (2): Con says Anna can "act before she thinks". That just goes to support the point I made when I said that Anna falls in love with that creepy prince in one night. She acts before she thinks! She doesn't think of the irrationality of the situation, but goes ahead and falls in love anyway! What kind of morals are we teaching the youth of America with this scenario? That it is perfectly fine and acceptable to fall and love and make plans for your future with somebody after not even a full day with them? It is flawed in so many ways, I could write my entire debate just on this one idea."

*I never said, that just because all Disney princesses' fall in love makes it okay, I never said that. Nor do you have proof that I did. I just find it funny how you are picking on Frozen for this one particular problem, yet most Disney Movies do exactly the same thing. Therefore, your point is invalid for twisting my words to your own liking.

Pro then goes on to say...

"Con then goes on to describe Elsa, "Elsa looks poised, regal and reserved, but in reality, she lives in fear as she wrestles with a mighty secret". While I won't deny the truth of that statement, it is only true at the beginning of the movie. She then throws it out the window when she runs away and freezes the entire country. I'm still not sure why she did that, considering she loves and cares for the people she is freezing. She is extremely weak as she doesn't face her fears, instead running away and leaving misery and destruction behind her. "

* Again, this is another invalid point. Nobody is perfect. I'm sure you would agree. People do things they regret when they are nervous, anxious or upset. You then go on to say "She is extremely weak as she doesn't face her fears, instead running away and leaving misery and destruction behind her.: So let me get this straight, she HAD faced her fears. She talked with Anna at the party when they hadn't even talked for years because Elsa was scared she might accidently hurt Anna. But Elsa did speak to Anna. Elsa took a step forward and socialized with people after she had locked herself in her room for may years. How is this not facing your fears? Then again, your point= INVALID.

Then he goes on to say...

"Con brings up Olaf, saying he likes warm hugs and that he is by far the friendliest snowman to walk the mountains above Arendelle. I don't deny any of that, again, but possibly the biggest reason behind my dislike for him is the fact that he has absolutely no character development. We see him at the very beginning, lifeless and then only for about a second. Halfway through the movie he pops out of nowhere and we are supposed to act like this is the moment we've been waiting for all along. He sings an absolute BS song about summer, considering how it is unlikely he even knows what summer is, and even if he does, why would a snowman want to experience summer? That's a death sentence, the equivalent of a human wanting to visit the sun. I mean, come on, we are watching a snowman with an apparent suicide wish. "

* I'm not going to even touch this so called "rebuttal" with a 10 foot pole....this is so unclear as to what he is saying...like what? I'm very lost here.

*NOTE: Pro says "I am going to skip Con's description of Kristoff, as I simply don't have the inclination or character count remainder to waste on him. I will skip Hans as well." Though Kristoff is a very, very important character.

* Pro didn't really give me anything to rebut..he didn't come up with any new arguments, like you should....so I'm kind of disappointed here...but let's continue!

More facts as to why Frozen is AMAZING!! [1]

1. The “true love” foundation to the story is not a princess waiting on her Prince Charming. True love is between sibling, 2 sisters to be exact. The fact that a female lead is not desperately flipping her hair so a man’s attention can give her some self-worth is something to write home about.

2. The female leads in the movie are capable, independent-minded, strong and intelligent women who struggle with finding their place in the world. They’re not completely incapable of surviving without the help of prince charming.

3. The princess does not marry the very first handsome prince that gives her the time of day, though she almost does.

4. There are so many moral victories to be had in this movie: young woman coming of age, meaning of true love, importance of parents/family, sacrifice for the greater good, conquering one’s demons by accepting that negative feelings are okay, a healthy imagination is wondrous and so many more that I cannot think of them.

5. The sequence during the “Do You Wanna Build a Snowman?” song is to ‘Frozen’ what the 2min heart-wrenching sequence was at the beginning of ‘Up’. It will bring a grown man to tears.

6. Oh right, the songs….the songs are not only catchy and heavily sing-a-longable, but they are plot-advancing devices that serve a purpose!

7. They don’t force any modern-day references to make the movie more palatable to current audiences.

8. Lastly, Queen Elsa totally could have been in the X-Men.


Sources: https://yogiallday.wordpress.com...

Diego_St.Clair

Pro

I would like to congratulate Con on an excellent rebuttal! It was truly great and I will need to step up my game to ensure my victory.

First, I can call you "hunny" if I wish to, according to a certain First Amendment you might be familiar with.

I'd also like to say that everything Con said in her earlier rebuttals was an opinion as well, we just have two different ways of looking at the same thing. I see it in a bad light.
Con acts like I never use reliable sources, when I am simply talking about the movie's plots and characters themselves. Also she says "and never uses and reliable sources,". I have no idea what that is trying to say.Con then goes on to nitpick my decision to "clump" up all my rebuttals together, despite me having a very clear number system to help readers understand what topic I am discussing. Since Con nitpicked my own debate, I have no choice but to point out that at the end of Round 2, Con literally pasted an entire topic twice. Go back and check.

Now on to rebutting Con's rebuttal of

2) Con says that she never said that just because all Disney Princesses' fall in love makes it okay. She says that she finds it funny how I am picking on Frozen for this one particular problem, when I am quite obviously talking about things other than Princesses' love in this debate. Right after this she says, "yet most Disney Movies do exactly the same thing". Screw me if I'm wrong, but didn't she just say that she never said that just because all Disney Princesses fall in love doesn't make it okay, but here she is two sentences afterwards saying that in fact because most Disney Movies include this, I cannot pick on Frozen for this? This is a contradiction and faulty logic if I've ever seen it.

Con's rebuttal of my description of Elsa is faulty as well, she is telling me that just because Elsa faced her fears for a couple minutes, she is a very brave person, when in reality, she snapped extremely quickly and deep-freezes the entire country. But was that really her fault? After careful thought, I concluded that, in fact, it isn't. However, the conclusion just goes even further to convey how flawed Frozen is. The people at fault here are the late King and Queen. They had no reason at all to hide Elsa powers from everybody, or to take away Anna's memories of her. No harm would have been done, and Elsa would have had love and support from the entire kingdom to help her, both mentally and physically. At the very least she wouldn't have had to stay in her room. Speaking about her room, how does she have such a slim body if she was cooped up in there for years on end? It seems like it would take some physical exertion to get and keep that nice of a body.

Con doesn't even try to attack my description of Olaf, and in the world of debate, silence is consent. Con's decision to not even give a reasonable reason as to why she didn't rebut my paragraph is inexcusable.

Con says that MY decision to skip her description of Kristoff is bad, however, she didn't give me any good elements of Kristoff to discuss. Everything she said about him was true, but I just didn't feel like bringing up the negative and flawed aspects of him.

Con literally didn't even touch my last three paragraphs, and like I said before, silence is consent, so she must agree with everything I said or didn't have any evidence that would prove it wrong.

All of the reasoning's I have mentioned in this entire debate were entirely produced out of my own speculation. I noticed Con simply copied and pasted many sections of text, which I wasn't originally going to do, as it seemed rather low. However, I'll add some other arguments I have read concerning this debate:

Problem 2: Elsa Is Awful

As well as having completely unexplained snow magic, Elsa is Frozen"s natural villain. She is also its natural hero, but despite this promising set-up she doesn"t actually achieve either distinction. She is a lump that sits in the film, too good to do any bad and too stupid to do any good. She is a character in no-man"s land.

In fact, Elsa is helpless throughout the entire duration of the film, did anyone else notice that? ELSA, YOU"RE THE BLOODY SNOW QUEEN! Can you do something, can you please do something other than some (pretty sweet, I"ll admit) home decorating? In the original Snow Queen, the antagonist doesn"t just sit there, she is a character that takes what she wants, and the only glimmer we see of that in Frozen is in the excellent number Let It Go. This movie could have been what Wicked was to The Wizard of Oz, with Elsa the new misunderstood, complex Elphaba character. This film could have shown us that the Snow Queen isn"t a mere one dimensional villain, bent on ruining and then stealing children, interested only in anarchy and misery, but a real person with justified motivations, desires and insecurities. But it doesn"t bother.

The opening minutes of Frozen hint at a deeper analysis of Hans Christian Anderson"s iconic villain. We see a young and vulnerable Elsa repressed for years by loving (if misguided) parents who then die tragically at sea. Surely, in the grips of grief and under the enormous pressure of being a royal figurehead at such a young age, it"s feasible that Elsa would lash out in justifiable, glorious anger at her lot? One of the biggest mistakes this film makes is that the deep freeze Elsa puts her kingdom under should not have been an accident, but an unadulterated emotional reaction spurred by the introduction"s fraught " and eventually shattered " family dynamic; a huge, icicle-fringed THIS IS NOT FAIR. That is motivation, that is drama and it would have made complete sense given the context that her frightened kingdom would think her a villain, but we the audience would know otherwise.

In fact, Elsa"s motivation is perpetually underdeveloped; a trait she shares with the rest of Frozen"s motley cast. Take Anna, the protagonist, who conveniently manages to purge her own orphan angst by the end of the Do You Want to Build A Snowman? montage. For the most part, Anna"s job is to offer hollow declarations of trust in Elsa. How are we, as viewers, expected to buy Anna"s faith when she and her sister have been estranged for ten years? The more compelling storyline would have been to cast Anna as uncertain, even afraid, of Elsa, so the stakes are meaningfully raised when she sets off after her sister. It would have allowed room in Frozen"s dramatic climax for the scared and lonely Anna to get through to the equally scared and lonely Elsa, which would have been incredibly touching. And yet, again, Frozen fails to live up to its impassioned potential.

Problem 3: In Fact, Every Character Is Awful

Frozen"s emotional emptiness is, at least partially, due to the chronic underuse of any and all side characters who could actually add to the story"s depth. A shining example of this is Olaf. Now, don"t get me wrong, I love Josh Gad and I think he is charming and hilarious as Olaf, one of the most compelling characters in this movie. But here"s a question, pretty fundamental to his character: why does Olaf want to see the summer? Why? Does anyone know? It"s a great idea, but why? This film does absolutely no work to explain this.

Had Disney utilised Olaf, who only appears momentarily at the beginning of the film, during Do You Want to a Build a Snowman?, they could have offered a proper insight into the relationship between the sisters and given him some very real layers. Picture this: if we had seen Anna building Olaf over and over in her loneliness, having him as her friend and then dreading the summer because he would no longer been around " or, dare I say it, even say to the inanimate Olaf that she wished he could see the summer " then not only would we have had a real appreciation of Anna"s loneliness, but also character motivation for Olaf wanting to see the summer and a walking, breathing representation of the isolation of two orphaned little girls.

In fact for a film full of lonely characters, Frozen does a dreadful job of actually making that loneliness apparent. This is most obvious with Kristoff, the male lead. Kristoff is a poor, wise-cracking orphan " the gold standard of Disney heroes " but with none of the complexity or appeal of Aladdin or Simba. For instance, when he is introduced as a little boy and witnesses the interaction the Royal family has with the trolls (don"t get me started on the trolls), the viewer is led to believe that Kristoff"s knowledge of Elsa"s powers and her efforts to conceal them will come into play later (you"d be wrong) or that he will reveal to/or perhaps hide this information from Anna, perhaps causing a dramatic rift in their burgeoning trust and friendship for an emotional payoff (you"d be wrong), or that he will play an important part in having to save the kingdom (you"d be wrong).

Sources: http://bestforfilm.com...

Back to Con!
Debate Round No. 3
Lee001

Con

The last round is for conclusion.
Pro states "Con acts like I never use reliable sources, when I am simply talking about the movie's plots and characters themselves. Also she says "and never uses and reliable sources,". I have no idea what that is trying to say.Con then goes on to nitpick my decision to "clump" up all my rebuttals together, despite me having a very clear number system to help readers understand what topic I am discussing. Since Con nitpicked my own debate, I have no choice but to point out that at the end of Round 2, Con literally pasted an entire topic twice. Go back and check."
First off, when I did I nitpick? I just used the word "clumped" because your arguments weren't well organized. I needed to organize it myself so the voters could read my rebuttals to your argument. I *accidently* copied and pasted something twice. Yes, I agree. But this was kind of immature on your end, because I never really nitpicked at you nor your arguments...
Conclusion:
Voters, please aknowledge the fact that I used sources to help clarify my points. I also gave a quick summary for thoose whom have never watched the movie Frozen. Pro did not uphold his BoP. He only uses his own opinion, and according to him, this makes him right. I used reliable sources. Not only did I use my own opinion, but I also used other opinions as to why Frozen is a good movie. I'm kind of dissapointed that this debate turned into a "You did this, nowI'm going to do this" I never nit-picked on Pro, and *if* I did, I was nit-picking at his arguments, I mean that IS debating.

Thanks for the debate!
Vote CON :)




Diego_St.Clair

Pro

Thank you everybody for staying with us this far. It's been a pleasure and I hope you've had as much fun reading this as me and Con had writing it. In this round I will sum up my complaints against Con and explain why my debate was superior.

Con argues that she didn't nitpick, which I still disagree with. She claims I "clumped" up my arguments, and while this may be true, its still perfectly readable and has some sense of order to it. However, the twice pasted paragraph was, in fact, an actual problem that had to be addressed.

Conclusion: Readers, I believe I've made my points clear. I didn't use sources as everything I said up until the last round was my own material, therefore, there was no reason for me to list my sources. Everything I discussed happened in the movie, it's not like I made stuff up just to make Frozen seem stupid. Con's way of looking at Frozen isn't as mature as it should be. To clarify what I mean, she looks at it in a very limited way, just talking about obvious characteristics and themes, when underneath all that is a whole mess of faulty writing and logic, just to mention two. However, Con did an outstanding job with her debate, and I'm confident we shall be neck and neck in the voting period.

Thank you, Con, readers and voters!
Vote Pro

-- DS
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Diego_St.Clair 2 years ago
Diego_St.Clair
This wasn't supposed to be the most serious of debates, in my defense...
Posted by Espera 2 years ago
Espera
Frozen isn't that decent a movie to be honest - however Pro made the mistake of letting his emotions write his arguments instead of his head. Therefore he lost and made himself look rather foolish. Here are four reasons Frozen is a poor movie:

1.) It's plot has far too much padding in some directions (the trolls, Hans) and too little weight in others (Elsa's issues, Anna's issues). Partly that's what happens to movies that get stuck in developmental hell, but partly it's trying to hard to move away from the original story. And that's bad - the Little Mermaid and Aladdin and most of the Disney Princess films stayed far truer to their sources and are considered classics for a reason.

2.) There isn't a clear reason for half of the characters even being there. Hans could have been cut without issue, the ice guy could have been cut along with his deer, the Duke could have been cut, the trolls should have been cut, heck even the little Snowman should have probably been tossed.

Their subplots don't really matter - what matters is Elsa and Anna and that's what the movie's focus should have been on. Doing that would have tighten the plot (see point 1) and made the narrative more impactful (see point 3).

3.) The movie is fairly bland and lacks much of an emotional punch. Yeah, yeah sisterly love - but Lilo and Stitch beats Frozen forty-seven ways to Sunday. Yeah, yeah no need for princes - but Tangled was both more entertaining and touching. Yeah, yeah "Let it go" - but Demi's version sounds much better.

4.) It's way over hyped because Tumblr loves Gay people (as long as Gay people agree with them on all things). I know LGTBQ+ want and need some representation, but jumping all over a film because you feel you can copy/paste your needs onto it does not in fact make it an amazing film... at all.

So yeah - I mean there are arguments to be made, but Pro didn't really do that.
Posted by bluesteel 2 years ago
bluesteel
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>Reported vote: phiLockeraptor // Moderator action: REMOVED<

3 points to Pro (arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Con had the most technically sound arguments, but Pro gave the arguments that honestly convinced me the most. Because the debate is about whether a movie is good or bad, I think there's a lot more room for subjectivity and Pathos/Ethos in general. I'm keeping the sources tied because all of Con's sources are just other people's opinions, and may as well not be there.

[*Reason for removal*] Too generic. This RFD does not mention any arguments made in the debate. It essentially just says it voted based on subjectivity and a belief that Pro "convinced me more."
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Posted by tejretics 2 years ago
tejretics
Lolol ... Ima *does* know =)
Posted by Diego_St.Clair 2 years ago
Diego_St.Clair
I believe my exact wording was "hate Frozen too"...
Posted by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
Pro what part of my profile picture makes you think I 'hate frozen to'?

btw your arguments are based entirely on opinion and not any tangible evidence so this debate is not going well for you at all right now
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
You have been summoned to give Pro a lesson.
Posted by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
I heard my name
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
Ikr. My thought.
Posted by tejretics 2 years ago
tejretics
Does Ima know about this? He would troll the hell out of anyone who dared claim the resolution was true.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
Lee001Diego_St.ClairTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: All con had to do was show that frozen is a good movie to some people and the debate is over. What is bad is, is entirely subjective based on perception so the only poin that she needed to drive was that the movie appealed to people and had positive features. She did and from that point on the debate was a clear won since it relies on perception