The Instigator
Islam_Forever
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
owen99999
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

GOD is great!!!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
owen99999
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,431 times Debate No: 20428
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (5)

 

Islam_Forever

Pro

Resolved:
ALLAH, the greatest, is great.



Rounds:
Round 1: Acceptance.
Round 2: GOD is great.
Round 3: Rebuttal to why opponent says GOD is not that great.

Rules:
No ad hominem
No straw man
No being offensive
All terrorism comments will be irrelevant
All Shintoism arguments will be irrelevant
There will be no discussing philosophical or scientific views on evolution, cosmology, or morality

Good luck to my opponent.
owen99999

Con

Hey I'm accepting your argument (first round just for acceptance). I am here to debate with you on the side that god doesn't exist and therefore can't be great. I will be debating that there is no evidence for the existence of god, there is no evidence for the existence of one god over another and also pointing out why people might believe in god if he doesn't exist and why I think you're not sure about your own religion.

Thanks and good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
Islam_Forever

Pro

Judges, I have yet to start my opening argument and Con has already blatantly disregarded the rules he accepted.
-Rule Infringement-
"I am here to debate with you on the side that god doesn't exist and therefore can't be great."
He is being very offensive here by saying my God doesn't exist. This is an infringement on the rules that he agreed to.
The resolution states, "Allah, the greatest, is great." We are not debating whether or not Allah, the greatest, exists, but rather whether or not Allah, the greatest, is great. Please take that into consideration when judging and debating.

Contention 1: By definition Allah, the greatest, is great.
The resolution states, "Allah, the greatest, is great." He accepted this resolution. Allah is the greatest. An entity that is the greatest is the ultimate in the category of "great." Therefore, Allah is great. If you want to argue with the word go ahead: http://www.thefreedictionary.com...;

Contention two: In logic you cannot prove a negative.

Thanks!
owen99999

Con

No... I didn't break any rules! Your rules were as follows:
No ad hominem No straw man No being offensive All terrorism comments will be irrelevant All Shintoism arguments will be irrelevant There will be no discussing philosophical or scientific views on evolution, cosmology, or morality
I am not being offensive by saying your god doesn't exist. I am allowed to have my own beliefs as you have yours. We are both entitled to believe what we wish to believe.

If god (or allah or whatever) doesn't exist, then he can't be great! You agree that is a fact yes? Something that does not exist can't be great. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of god. How could he possibly be great if he doesn't exist?!

You can infact prove a negative. Link in comments to an article proving that.

Thank you
Debate Round No. 2
Islam_Forever

Pro

My opponent has failed to prove his premise that "god doesn't exist."

Contention 1:
Allah is great because he has predicted the greatest scientific discoveries that humans have unlocked, thousands of years before they unlocked those mysteries.

Allah wrote about the water cycle[1], that the moon was bright because of sunlight[2], that the Universe began with a big bang[3], that the Sun was stationary with respect to the solar system, while planets orbit[4], that the universe is expanding [5].

Contention 2: Allah is great because he is known as the greatest. By the resolution I gave, he is great.

My opponent used all of his characters up unnecessarily proving his innocence. he posted all of my rules although he only broke one. Please take substance and laconicity into account when judging.

Thank You.

[1] http://quran.com...
[2] http://quran.com...
[3] http://quran.com...
[4] http://quran.com...
[5] http://quran.com...




owen99999

Con

Rebuttal to contention 1:
[1] This doesn't explain the water cycle at all. It says when it rains the crops grow and then they eventually dry up. This is something anyone can observe just by planting a flower!
[2] It doesn't say that the moon is just reflecting the sun's light. This verse is just an observation of what you can see when you look up at night. It says the moon is luminous. Luminous is defined as: "Bright or shining, esp. in the dark."
[3] This isn't the big bang. This is saying that 'the heavens' and the earth were separated. The big bang theory has nothing to do with 'heavens' Also aside the point, water did not make up every living thing because water is hydrogen and oxygen which discounts the six elements in between.
[4] This one doesn't mean anything it doesn't distinguish between the sun, moon or any other 'heavenly bodies'.
[5] By my premise, the heavens don't exist anyway and I would like to point out what that verse actually means in the comments with my sources.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
I also notice in one of your debates you said that you didn't think anyone was born homosexual. How do you believe someone becomes homosexual then?
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
Oh my god you are so dumb it's unreal...

I KNOW ATHEISTS DO BAD THINGS. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE MOTIVE IS VERY RARELY (PRETTY MUCH NEVER) THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD WHEREAS WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH DO WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION. AND ALSO ABOUT THE GOVERNMENTS THING; HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY WERE ATHEISTS? YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S AN ATHEIST GOVERNMENT JUST BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE IN IT WERE ATHEISTS. IF THEY'RE THE PRESIDENTS OR PRIMINISTERS THEN THAT'S DIFFERENT BUT YOU CAN'T SAY 'ATHEIST GOVERNMENTS' UNLESS THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT IS ATHEIST. LOOK AT HITLER FGS HE WAS A CATHOLIC

SECONDLY, THE WORD 'HOMOPHOBIA MOST COMMONLY USED TO REFER TO CONTEMPT, PREJUDICE OR HATRED TOWARDS GAY PEOPLE.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HISTORICAL RECORDINGS OF RAPE OR RACISM OR ABUSE I AM TALKING ABOUT GOD CONDONING IT.

I AM NOT MAKING UP ANYTHING I HAVE READ THE FRICKING BIBLE I'M NOT IGNORANT TO THE DISGRACES IN IT! THE WHOLE IDEA OF HELL ITSELF IS TORTURE. http://www.openbible.info... <-- have a look there for some bible quotes.
http://justpaste.it... <-- Racism in the bible.
http://www.evilbible.com... <-- Rape in the bible
http://www.openbible.info... <-- Homophobia in the bible

Slaves were MOST CERTAINLY treated wrongly. Look at this quote about beating slaves from Exodus 21:20-21:

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. http://justpaste.it... <-- Some more slavery quotes

Westboro Baptist church only go by what the bible says. They are against homosexuality because the bible is against homosexuality.

The fact is homosexuality is fine and you should just learn to be a kind person and accept whatever sexuality someone is. It's no different to being straight.
Posted by johnnyboy54 5 years ago
johnnyboy54
So atheists do no harm because they are atheists. That is quite circular don't you think? The fact is atheists and atheist governments are responsible for the murders of over 100 million people in the 20th century.

First of all, it is not homophobia. I believe homosexuality is wrong however I do not fear them. Second of all, you have not proven that homosexuality is alright. You also assert that people are morally wrong for thinking so even if such thought never leads to violent actions. I fail to see how this is the case.

Most of the atrocities you mention are simple recordings of history. Like the Bible mentioning a rape. I have read the Bible and your link and you are both taking the Bible out of context. Some of those issues where the link says it was rape was actually laws for men wishing to marry women from defeated nations

Racism I have never seen in the Bible nor have I have ever heard anyone make an argument as to why the Bible is racist. Nor have I read a Bible verse advocating torture. You are making up talking points.

Slavery is actually interesting a good point. However you are seeing slavery with modern eyes. There are different types of slaves. The most common are chattel slaves and indentured servants. Chattel slaves had no rights or freedoms, much like slaves in the early USA. Israel did not take chattel slaves.

Indentured servants were people who signed contracts to serve someone else for a period of time. This is essentially an employment contract. These servants still held kinship, marriage and legal rights. There is nothing wrong with this. Employers had to treat them humanly.

Westboro Baptist Church is an fringe group of nutjobs that ignore Christ's teachings of love to be mean spirited bigots. They are not hateful because of their religion. They are hateful because they ignore it.
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
I absolutely agree with you that both religious people and atheists and agnostics do bad things but what I'm saying is it is very rare do have an atheist do bad things because of the fact that they are atheists but it is quite common to have religious people do bad things BECAUSE of their religion like for example westboro baptist church. The christians in the US who are against homosexuality are morally wrong.

In the bible (which I have read), there are many things which 'god' condones which are seen even by most religious people today as morally wrong. Examples of these are racism, slavery, homophobia, rape and torture. Check out:

http://www.evilbible.com...

for more.
Posted by johnnyboy54 5 years ago
johnnyboy54
@owen99999

You cannot take the actions and beliefs of a few and give them to the whole. This is a fallacy. If you want to play that game then you would also have to acknowledge atheism as in inherently evil. Most of the genocides committed by governments in the 20th century was committed by atheist or secular governments. The fact is all people, whether they are religious or not have committed or are committing atrocities.

Beliefs are rarely inherently harmful. Evils created by Christian men should not necessarily be blamed on Christianity itself. If you look in the Bible, you will find that Jesus calls all men to treat each other with respect and dignity. Also note that even Christians in the United States who are against homosexuality think the what Westboro Baptist Church is going is abhorrent.
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
@The_Reformation
Any god is a false god. God doesn't exist. I've never understood how an idea can be so deeply secured in someones mind, even the strongest evidence wont change your mind.

Secondly, It is not just muslims that cause suffering. It is all religion; religion in general. Look at the CHRISTIAN westboro baptist church or the EDL in england which are against muslims!
You're wrong deal with it.
Posted by The_Reformation 5 years ago
The_Reformation
@Islam_Forever, Allah is a false god. If you are offended, pay attention to your own messed up scripture.

"The Jews say Ezra is the son of God, while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of God. Such are their assertions, by which they imitate the infidels of old. God confound them! How perverse they are!"
—Qur'an 9:30 It's because of your man-made demonic false God that you use to promote hate towards non-Muslims that we have so much violence in this world. Explain this kindly.. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com... Then when you come to your senses follow the real and only God.
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
@Wallstreetatheist Nice quote :) I didn't read your comment till my argument was posted so i didn't use it but I'm sure I will in the future! I'm sorry my debate took so long!
Posted by owen99999 5 years ago
owen99999
The last point to my argument and my sources:
What the verse in source [5] is saying is that we (humans) are the universes 'expanders' because when we are born we add to this world. (This is wrong though because we are made from atoms that were already there).

Sources:
[1], [2], [3], [4] and [5] from Islamforever's final argument.

http://www.google.co.uk...

http://www.kidzone.ws... <-- The second section of this shows the real water cycle has four stages, the verse only mentions precipitation.

http://www.google.co.uk... <--count the elements between hydrogen and oxygen. 6!
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
Use the quote, "the evidence that god doesn't exist is the lack of evidence that he/she/it does exist."
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by wiploc 5 years ago
wiploc
Islam_Foreverowen99999Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: This one was hard to judge. Neither side did well. But Pro had the burden of proof. Conduct goes to Con for this, "He is being very offensive here by saying my God doesn't exist," Pro's attempt to bully Con out of arguing for the position that Pro invited him to debate. Don't start a debate if you are offended by someone taking the other side.
Vote Placed by royalpaladin 5 years ago
royalpaladin
Islam_Foreverowen99999Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro never proves that God exists.
Vote Placed by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Islam_Foreverowen99999Tied
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Total points awarded:25 
Reasons for voting decision: S/G and conduct goes to Con because Pro used annoyingly big lettering. Pro used sources, Con did not. Con made an excellent argument by pointing out that Pro had to show that God exists for Him to be great. In my opinion, the burden of proof fell completely on Pro.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 5 years ago
Buckethead31594
Islam_Foreverowen99999Tied
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Total points awarded:21 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro acted with arrogance towards Con in Round 2 = loss of conduct. Pro actually uses sources as redundant as they may be; Con does not. Con denounces the resolution merely on the premise that there "is no evidence." Con is supposed to provide evidence to disprove the resolution, but fails to do so. Overall, it was Pro's use of sources that won my vote; however, both sides lack strong arguments. Both the Burden of Proof and the resolution were not met.
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 5 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
Islam_Foreverowen99999Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Resolution tautology. "God, the greatest, is great" is saying if God is the greatest, he is great, so I can't not agree.